Pakistani Forces against Militants.

[ajtr]

Am not too sure about it.. If this was as foolproof, independent journalists would have been allowed in the area..

Collateral damage even in these raids, happens. that's what he is saying. Nothing wrong in exploring how much collateral damage is there ? It will be less but NIL, don't think so. Even Pakistani members will agree on this too.

I dont think so.There was one thread posted about how one of pakistan's helicopter gunship went down when target was confirmed by ground intelligence and when it came over the target it found mosque full of kids and women even after having confirmed target from ground intelligence chopper didnt fire coz of the women and kids. then taliban hiding behind them came out and bought down the chopper with rocket launchers.
Thats main difference with drones and pakistani gunships engaging the targets ie they make sure 100% before firing.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

But since those areas are Militant strongholds, not only independent journalists but also Pakistani Army does not have a free access to the area.

in Khyber Agency? What are you talking about?

not only they have presence there, the tribes have also been very active in cooperating with the security forces and in fact their contribution to our war has been invaluable. Even tribes that have rivalries with eachother have united and formed lashkars to ensure nobody disturbs the uneasy-peace ---given that the local police forces are poorly equipped and the political system there is weak and has been fairly ineffective.


my advice to you --> check your facts first

Hence would be impossible to ascertain if the ones killed were militants of civilians.. Also the news release from PA also seems to be leaving that option open with the claim of suspected militants

that is correct.....b/c they don't have "******/taleban" tattoo'd on they foreheads right? That's what makes this a challenging fight.

but when they are shot at and they return fire and whack a few of the enemy and recover arms ammunition and explosive devices -- i think it's FAIRLY safe to say that they are militants (fair game)

that isn't to say that from our side there hasn't also been collateral damage and believe me this pains all of us.....but our method of fighting is the effective way. Not only we're fighting them, we're deradicalizing many other 'potentials'

we have the tribes on our side for the most part - they are loyal and they also have sacrificed a lot (and paid for it in blood). They themselvs are fed up of these scums disturbing what was once a very peaceful region. I hail from tribal areas myself, i know much of those areas like back of my hand. I know the tribes, i know the 'tribal dynamics' -- these guys simply want peace and they are in need of the center establishing its writ there in a manner in which the local 'equilibrium' is not affected....these are conservative areas, but with peace-loving people


it's very easy for someone (especially indian) to blindly critisize when you yourselves are embroiled in God knows how many insurgencies and insurrections in your northeast (where also information can be difficult to ascertain and verify; and where there have also been "suspected militants" rounded up and/or even killed

in fact you of all people should be the most 'understanding' here!


(of course this is where the indians say "ohhhhh but sir, this is all your own making" and other such rhetorical, misconstrued banter like that)

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

something about Balochistan? always this can be expected from the standard bharti on PDF

 

[stunningme]

I think Balochistan bharti are not fair.

 

[Windjammer]

 

[Last Hope]

Video link please?

 

[Windjammer]

Video link please?

Awaiting from the source. !!

 

[Death Rattle]

Thats main difference with drones and pakistani gunships engaging the targets ie they make sure 100% before firing.

You can't be more wrong than that:
Military raid: Jets, helicopter gunships kill 5 militants, 2 civilians – The Express Tribune

The Army retaliated Sunday with helicopter gunships that pounded suspected militant hideouts and also hit three houses and a mosque in the town, said intelligence officials. Three civilians were killed and 20 were wounded in the helicopter attacks, they said. It’s unclear how many militants were killed.

NWA operation

Civilians killed in PAF raid: Court seeks details of compensation paid | DAWN.COM

NWA tribesmen protest killings in artillery shelling - thenews.com.pk

 

[Last Hope]

Awaiting from the source. !!

Got it, it's 3 years old though.

Edit: The jet, hardly visible at the end of the video, seems to be JF-17.

 

[Windjammer]

Got it, it's 3 years old though.

No worries dude, some much more up to date material coming up soon.

 

[Last Hope]

DI KHAN: Two security personnel were injured when militants attacked the Scouts Fort in Toi Khulla early Friday morning, a security official told The Express Tribune.

The security official said two militants had been killed and four were injured in retaliatory firing.
“Militants, dozens in number, attacked the fort with heavy and light weapons, but the security forces response failed their attack. The attack was from 2pm till 3pm, continued exchange of fire for an hour,” the official added.
The injured security personnel were shifted via helicopter to the hospital located at the Scouts Camp in Wana.

One of the injured is said to be in critical condition.

A resident of Wana told The Express Tribune that he had heard the sound of artillery at night and had seen helicopters flying towards Toi Khulla, around 30km south of Wana Bazaar, on Saturday morning.

Toi Khulla is a tehsil of Wana in South Waziristan, which borders Zhob district of Balochistan. The Dottani and Sulaiman Khel tribes are the inhabitants of the area, which comes under the influence of Mullah Nazeer Taliban Group.

No group has claimed responsibility for the attack so far.
Earlier on September 2, militants had attacked a check post in the Khan Kot area of the tehsil. One official and five militants had been killed in the attack.

 

[Last Hope]

LAHORE: The Punjab Police claimed to have foiled a large-scale terror bid during Muharramul Haram, arresting two active members of Hakimullah Mehsud group, chief of banned Tehreek-e-Taliban Pakistan (TTP).
The suspects were allegedly involved in various incidents of terrorism including attacks on Pakistan Air Force (PAF) Kamra base, camps of armed forces, police picket in Gujrat, revealed Inspector General of Police Punjab Haji Habibur Rehman on Friday.

While addressing a press conference at the Police Club, the IG Police said that a huge quantity of arms, ammunition and explosive material have been recovered from the possession of the arrested terror suspects including:

Five suicide vests, two IEDs, two AK-47 assault rifles, one official used rifle MP5, 75 kilogramme explosive material sufficient for preparation of 60 more suicide jackets, 25 hand grenades, 58 manual detonators manual, 25 electronic detonators, three detonating cards, seven timers, 11 remote control devices, 12 batteries, two mobile chips, a huge quantity of magazines, bullets and other bomb-making gear.
The arrested suspects, Shafiq and his son Abdul Rehman, had earlier killed four police officers, seized an official rifle and escaped.

This incident took place in March this year.

The IG Police further informed the media that these suspects had also attacked a temporary Army camp set up near the Chenab River bank and killed seven soldiers and injured five.
IG Police Rehman also revealed that the said group was involved in Kamra base attack and one accomplice of the arrested suspects was killed during the assault.

“The group has gathered arms, ammunition and explosive material in Gujrat, to carry out massive terrorist attacks in the area and other parts of Punjab during Muharram,” the IG Police said. The militants hid this material at their residence situated in Mauza Sagr, he added.

IG Police stated that the first active member – Shafiq – was arrested by a team of Gujrat Police and Elite Force officer, led by District Police Officer (DPO) Gujrat Raja Basharat Mehmood. He said the son was later arrested in the jurisdiction of Police Station Civil Line Gujrat.

Two separate cases have been registered against the terrorist group and the IG police said he is hopeful about arresting five other active members identified during the course of initial interrogation.

 

[Last Hope]

QUETTA: Frontier Corps (FC) personnel recovered around 250kg of explosives from a car near the Pak-Afghan border in Killa Abdullah district, Balochistan, Thursday night.

An FC spokesperson told The Express Tribune that upon receiving information from army intelligence, they stopped the car at the district’s Sagi area and discovered the explosives which were intended for terrorist attacks in Quetta.

The spokesperson claimed a suspect was arrested as well.

 

[Solomon2]

70 Kilometers Of Bad Road

November 21, 2012: Although Pakistan allows Islamic terrorists to reside unmolested in North Waziristan, many of the Islamic radicals there do not return the favor. Thus, while Pakistan maintains a token garrison in Miranshah (the capital of North Waziristan), it requires a major military operation to run a weekly supply convoy (carrying mostly food and fuel) for the troops and officials there. The convoy must travel through over 70 kilometers of road that is normally controlled by Islamic terrorist groups (mainly the Pakistani Taliban). The terrorists plant many roadside bombs along the route and will attack any vehicles that will not submit to inspection. Since the military convoy is off-limits to such inspection, the movement of the convoy is an all-day affair and often involves violence or threats of violence.

Early in the morning army engineers start clearing the route of bombs and mines. This is usually done by noon, at which point the convoy and its armed guard proceed and, despite the occasional ambush, reach Miranshah by nightfall. The next day, the empty trucks must repeat the process to get back to their base at the town of Bannu. The Taliban could, if they wanted, cut off army access to Miranshah. But the army has made it clear that this would lead to massive use of artillery and air strikes. So the Taliban let the convoy pass with only light opposition. The government is allowed to do some other development work, like building or repairing roads, but with the understanding that these troops will not interfere with the Taliban and vice versa.

There are currently 150,000 troops in the Pakistani tribal territories, and nearly 40,000 are in or surrounding North Waziristan (an area of 4,700 square kilometers, with 365,000 people). North Waziristan has been surrounded since late 2009, but Pakistani generals have refused to go in and take down this terrorist refuge. Politicians have been under growing pressure from the West, especially the United States to do something about the continued terror attacks by what the Pakistanis call "bad Taliban". These are mostly Pakistani Taliban who want to establish a religious dictatorship in Pakistan. The Afghan Taliban, who wants to establish a similar government in Afghanistan are considered "good Taliban" (along with the minority of Pakistani Taliban who don't want to overthrow the government).

In the last two years, the Pakistani Taliban have also caused hundreds of casualties among pro-government tribesmen throughout the tribal territories, and it's no secret that the army hires tribesmen and puts them in dangerous situations to minimize army casualties. The army cannot afford to lose the support of the loyal tribes up there. All this has put pressure on the army to eliminate the refuge the killers can flee to in North Waziristan. Several times, because of the demands of Pakistani and American politicians, the Pakistani generals have said they will consider advancing into North Waziristan. But it hasn't happened yet. Meanwhile, the Pakistan army gets reminded how formidable the tribesmen can be as the troops run their weekly supply convoy to Miranshah.

 

[TaimiKhan]

70 Kilometers Of Bad Road

November 21, 2012: Although Pakistan allows Islamic terrorists to reside unmolested in North Waziristan, many of the Islamic radicals there do not return the favor. Thus, while Pakistan maintains a token garrison in Miranshah (the capital of North Waziristan), it requires a major military operation to run a weekly supply convoy (carrying mostly food and fuel) for the troops and officials there. The convoy must travel through over 70 kilometers of road that is normally controlled by Islamic terrorist groups (mainly the Pakistani Taliban). The terrorists plant many roadside bombs along the route and will attack any vehicles that will not submit to inspection. Since the military convoy is off-limits to such inspection, the movement of the convoy is an all-day affair and often involves violence or threats of violence.

Early in the morning army engineers start clearing the route of bombs and mines. This is usually done by noon, at which point the convoy and its armed guard proceed and, despite the occasional ambush, reach Miranshah by nightfall. The next day, the empty trucks must repeat the process to get back to their base at the town of Bannu. The Taliban could, if they wanted, cut off army access to Miranshah. But the army has made it clear that this would lead to massive use of artillery and air strikes. So the Taliban let the convoy pass with only light opposition. The government is allowed to do some other development work, like building or repairing roads, but with the understanding that these troops will not interfere with the Taliban and vice versa.

There are currently 150,000 troops in the Pakistani tribal territories, and nearly 40,000 are in or surrounding North Waziristan (an area of 4,700 square kilometers, with 365,000 people). North Waziristan has been surrounded since late 2009, but Pakistani generals have refused to go in and take down this terrorist refuge. Politicians have been under growing pressure from the West, especially the United States to do something about the continued terror attacks by what the Pakistanis call "bad Taliban". These are mostly Pakistani Taliban who want to establish a religious dictatorship in Pakistan. The Afghan Taliban, who wants to establish a similar government in Afghanistan are considered "good Taliban" (along with the minority of Pakistani Taliban who don't want to overthrow the government).

In the last two years, the Pakistani Taliban have also caused hundreds of casualties among pro-government tribesmen throughout the tribal territories, and it's no secret that the army hires tribesmen and puts them in dangerous situations to minimize army casualties. The army cannot afford to lose the support of the loyal tribes up there. All this has put pressure on the army to eliminate the refuge the killers can flee to in North Waziristan. Several times, because of the demands of Pakistani and American politicians, the Pakistani generals have said they will consider advancing into North Waziristan. But it hasn't happened yet. Meanwhile, the Pakistan army gets reminded how formidable the tribesmen can be as the troops run their weekly supply convoy to Miranshah.

Same stories we heard in Swat, Bajur, SWA, Orakzai, but in the end, militants were on the run, army supply route was safe and are still safe to this day with uninterrupted supply happening with units / formations going out and moving in on routine basis.

Nothing to be worried about. And the article is making a fuss out of just a small issue.