Pakistani Female Pilots, report by CNN

[muse]

Riz

So, well, interesting - so, 4 wives eh? yeah, Interesting.

Sunnah? So, yeah, interesting stuff - so like all life is really a replay of ghe beloved prophets life? in so many ways? Religion, so, yes, wild, yeah.

referred to as taking guidance while referring to the incident of Jang-e-Badar? If you do think that the two are same then I really can't help it.

You don't know how relieved I am for that (I mean that in nice way).

 

[sonicboom]

.


Interesting ideas - the world today is like the world in 7th century - our society is the same as 7th century mecca and Medina - Alos interesting ideas about "ghairat" and in particular about virility - a virile man is apparently a man who is unable to reconcile with reality and lives in the advise of a ideologue.

Clearly some feel emasculated in the presence of women.

Mr., you continue to use derogatory remarks about Islam and its teaching in your posts. I would suggest that you refrain from this kind of demeaning attitude and use some common sense. You are entitled to express your views but do it in a dignified manner. There seems to be some deficiency in the way you were brought up but then you have lived long enough under the shadow of Goora’s and please learn from them how to respect others and their beliefs.


Webmaster please make a note of this

 

[Awesome]

I think for women coming in hands of enemy is seriously being under played. If they are captured it is more likely they will be assaulted. History is full of it and no one should have any illusions that it will not happen again.

Nobody is saying it won't be a bad thing, but they are soldiers. They are ready to fight and die, and any such incident would be a sacrifice in the line of duty to protect us.

Furthermore, it would be equally stressful if a male was raped after capture.

Moreover, it would be a violation of the Geneva conventions if anything of the sort was done. It's the defence of the nation, for gods sakes. Everything else is secondary.

I wonder if we have our own equivalent of SERE training as gambit mentioned above.

 

[Awesome]

Mr., you continue to use derogatory remarks about Islam and its teaching in your posts. I would suggest that you refrain from this kind of demeaning attitude and use some common sense. You are entitled to express your views but do it in a dignified manner. There seems to be some deficiency in the way you were brought up but then you have lived long enough under the shadow of Goora’s and please learn from them how to respect others and their beliefs.


Webmaster please make a note of this

Do not engage in personal attacks on any member of the forum, if you have the guts refute his claims or else hold your mouth

 

[SeaGull]

Let it be absolutely clear to everyone here and elsewhere - The Quran and the Sunnah are for all times to come - so long as TIME as we know it, exists - and only for those who like to identify themselves a Muslims.
Drawing mirrored parallels between 7th century Arabia and the Prophet's life to our contemporary conditions, is an exaggeration that need not have found its place here.
The Prophet brushed his teeth with miswak. Does this mean that we too should brush our teeth with miswak?[though some nuts among us still do that]
The emphasis has been on keeping one's teeth clean.
It is the principles that stand out behind the arguments both in the Quran and the Sunnah that are applicable.
The arguments then were relevant to the context of their own timespace.

And let us not delude ourselves with this thirteen wives stuff. Our Prophet was a great lover and I do not find anything wrong with that. - [though not the 13 at one time], actually he was quite a lovable person himself and the ladies loved him too.
And I would like to see who is man enough among ourselves to fulfill the conditions laid down in the Quran, in order to qualify for the FOUR WIVES at one time.

 

[sonicboom]

Women are very capable and Islam has blessed them and permitted them to work and conduct business. There is no question that it is permissible, but how they choose to carry out that blessing is the key issue and whether it is beneficial or harmful to the family.

The Muslim women have certain obligations, such as their home and family, which should always be their utmost priority. They must never lose sight of the importance of those obligations as being mothers and wives and that is more important and rewarding than perusing a career. Raising children to be trustworthy and honest Muslims is something that no monetary wealth can ever accomplish no matter how great.

Take the example of west. The family in the West is disintegrating, and many believe that their lifestyle is a major part of the problem. With the mother and father both working outside the home, the children's lives are often filled with loneliness, lack of training, and perhaps frustration and anger with their rarely present parents. The parent’s goal of improving their family's financial situation by having two breadwinners often backfires, and the family is sometimes harmed or destroyed in the process.

And lastly one of the potential problem in Pakistan caused by more and more women working is that sometimes men, who have the ultimately responsibility for providing financial support to their families, cannot find adequate jobs because so many are taken by women to satisfy their desire to have a career.

At the end of the day, one has to make a choice whether or not the women perusing the career is worth the risk.

 

[SeaGull]

Mr., you continue to use derogatory remarks about Islam and its teaching in your posts. I would suggest that you refrain from this kind of demeaning attitude and use some common sense. You are entitled to express your views but do it in a dignified manner. There seems to be some deficiency in the way you were brought up but then you have lived long enough under the shadow of Goora’s and please learn from them how to respect others and their beliefs.


Webmaster please make a note of this

GREAT - And you are not alone

 

[All-Green]

what i am going to say after it 50% of members wouls attack me so ist i look a safe side for me

ok PAF doesnt need women if trueely speeking , what ALLAH said is correct coz ALLAH is creator of all creatures and he knows better then us which is better for what puprpose and In ISlam women are not for flying or for any hard tasks. even there expenditures are responsibilities of male spouses. think if u believe in ISlam that women are not assigned for outside work (i have no taliban views) how u through responsibility of defence on them , though during WARS they did some role but they were not assingned for any warrior ttype role. i know most of u are muslims at dis forum(sorry to non muslim bros) u ppl know ha during BADAR WAR muslims were 313 so few but he didnt brought women into WAR. just get a guide from ur ISLAM i hink males in pak are impotent to give such roles to womens2ndly sorry to say but its reallity culure inside PAF is not good i have so many relatives in PAF and i knew all dis from them there are drinkers present there . we as pakistani needs o keep it away such culture . thats fact and moderatorz plz plz permit us to say independently

A woman is not for outside work?
You really need to study the Muslim history and the role played by women.

Whereas certainly women are not warriors by nature and by their additional vulnerabilities in a battlefield...there are many instances where women fought side by side with men in the earliest history of Islam...the idea of a meek woman maybe true in sub continent but there was no such thing in the early Islamic culture and armies...

In most of the armies of early Islamic era the camp was also composed of womenfolk who were active participants as the caretakers of the injured and were ready and willing to defend themselves if attacked...

In the battle of Yarmuk a Muslim division was severely outnumbered and cutoff from by the huge roman army and after making a lot of sacrifices retreated back into the camp where the Muslim women came forward and urged their men to at least fight by their side...this made the men full of shame and they went back into line and fought like lions and repulsed the attack...

Muslim women were much more emancipated back then...in Yarmuk Hazrat Zubair RA was one of the most renowned and famous companions of the Prophet and he used to make his rounds of the Army along with his wife (Asma daughter of Abu Bakar) to motivate the soldiers and lift their spirits in face of overwhelming odds.

The role of a woman is not that restricted in Islam as you choose to see...

Regarding the drinkers in PAF...well you cannot condemn a force because some people drink there...certainly in your personal life someone might be doing things forbidden in Islam but we do not condemn our associates so readily...

You know that Hazrat Umar RA was the strictest caliph and in his time the famous Wahshi (the one who martyred Hazrat Hamza RA) was always found drunk and after punishing him few times...even Umar RA gave up...whilst drinking is not something permissible for the Muslims...you cannot kill someone who drinks...all you can do is hope he overcomes his addiction and help him if you are close to him...the drinking culture has gone down by quiet a huge margin so on that account there has been improvement and not decay in the armed forces of Pakistan.

Now about Pakistani men going impotent...well that is really a very negative remark and if you want to be taken seriously...you have to maintain certain respect and maturity in your comments...once you learn this i am sure you will at least find the forum to be a friendly and fairly tolerant place...these problems i see with many young folk who are passionate about Islamic values...

1) they do not study Islamic history closely and instead choose to interpret the entire Islamic culture and mindset by one or two examples...better to explore more and then come up with a broader perspective.

2) they project their views by using extremely negative remarks and taunts instead of trying to be civil...maybe you are right and maybe you are wrong...still if you are civil enough...the audience will not get offended personally...and you will have a better chance to influence the debate.

On a side note, I personally assure you that i am a Pakistani man and I have a beautiful baby daughter...so do not worry...we are still potent enough...

 

[muse]

Bigotted arguments simply will not suffice, in fact they only hasten the day when discriminatory attitudes are completely rejected. Hiding behind the skirt of religion and using it as a mask to justify attitudes that have no place among civilized society will similarly not succeed.

Pakistani women have only proven their competence but also their patriotism and valor and they will continue to do regardless of who likes or does not.

Whether it's flying jets, to commanding units, in the AQir force, in the Army and in the navy, Pakistani women simply will not allow backward attitudes to define them, regardless of who likes it or does not.

 

[FlyingEagle]

Pakistan is a Muslim country and is based on the teachings of Islam. It is the duty of all the Muslims to protect it from evils. When we use the word Muslim it means all the Muslims (Male, Female, Children and all). A solider is a solider, doesn’t matter a male or a female as a doctor is a doctor and a shaheed is a shaheed. This gender debate is endless. If a female doctor can treat a male patient and can work along her male colleagues then why not in defense? In flying fighters the game is about courage, patriotism and skill set. No doubt if a person who decided to join PAF is patriotic and courageous. The skill set will be polished by PAF. A person who is more skillful will be a good fighter then it doesn’t matter a male or a female.

I just want to clear the purpose of the job and in my views it’s worthless who performs it. The important thing is that how to perform it in the best way. If males can be the best cook in the east then females can also be the best fighters all depends upon the skills. If female can produce young one’s then this skill set is not impossible for her. Once the mission/purpose completed successfully all the other things are secondary.

 

[Wingman]

Pakistan's female fighter pilots break down barriers

Story Highlights
Ambreen Gul is one of seven women trained to fly F-7 supersonic fighter jet

To become a Pakistani fighter pilot takes three years of training

Some female pilots wear hijabs, others go without the Muslim headdress

September 14, 2009

By Reza Sayah
CNN

ISLAMABAD, Pakistan (CNN) -- Six years ago an ad in the Sunday paper changed a young Pakistani woman's life and made aviation history.

Seven Pakistani women are trained to fly the country's F-7 fighter jets -- though none have seen combat so far.

The ad read: "Pakistan Air Force recruiting females cadets."

Back then Ambreen Gul was 20-years old and living in Karachi. Her mother wanted her to be a doctor. She remembers her reaction when she told her she wants to fly.

"She was like: 'You're a girl,'" says Gul. "How will you do it? How will you fly?"

The following day Gul took the first step in proving her mother wrong. She was among the first in line at the recruitment center.

For nearly six decades it was only men who had flown Pakistan's fighter jets. Today Gul is one of seven women who are trained and ready to fly Pakistan's F-7 supersonic fighter jets.

"This is a feeling that makes you proud and makes you humble also," says Gul.

Humility doesn't mean lack of confidence.

"We can do everything better than the men," explains cadet Nida Tariq.

"We're more hardworking, more consistent and more patient," adds cadet Anam Faiq.

To become a fighter pilot takes three years of training at the Air Force Academy in Risalpur, Pakistan, where the halls are lined with grainy black-and-white pictures of nearly six decades of male graduates who went on to fly for the Pakistan Air Force.

The training is often intensely physical. Here, equal opportunity means equal treatment.

If they are not good enough as per their male counterparts, we don't let them fly," says commanding officer Tanvir Piracha.

Some of Pakistan's female pilots wear hijabs. Others prefer to go without the Muslim headdress. Most say changing the misconception of Muslim women is just as important as serving their country.

"Islam gives equal opportunity to females. Whatever we want to do we can," says pilot Nadia Gul.

"To tell you the truth I've been given equal opportunity or I suppose more than men have been given," says Air Force cadet Sharista Beg.

Air Force officials say fighter pilots are playing a vital role in the fight against the Taliban. They're training in counterinsurgency, collecting aerial intelligence and targeting militant strongholds in the treacherous mountains of Pakistan's tribal region along the Afghan border.

Ambreen Gul says her goal now is to fly in combat.

"I would give my life for my country," she says.

But women rarely fly in combat anywhere in the world and it's never been done in Pakistan. It's another barrier Gul plans to break.

How many of them still flying F-7 and where they are posted??

 

[All-Green]

an i astonished to see that y y they aree not inducting men in stead of women it is easy to fly a plane if woman can do all of us can do

the only thing which distingush men from women is

where intelligence fails courage takes start

Now that is certainly a courageous statement...because my intelligence is failing to comprehend it...

How you can think that if one woman can become a PAF qualified fighter pilot...all of us here can do the same!!!
I am sure most of us would not make it even if we were inducted in the GDP course...
Even if you have flown in a commercial jet and encountered the worst of air pockets you would still have no idea of what a fighter pilot has to withstand and at the same time be in control of the situation...

Do you know how difficult it is to earn your wings in an air force like PAF?
Do not assume that these ladies were handed down their badges in silver platters...they were made to work hard.

You may not like the induction of women into fighter arms and that is your personal opinion...it may be shared by many and not just in Pakistan...still that does not mean lambasting the whole concept as an unholy thing or a forbidden evil...that it certainly is not.

At least be fair to them and do not make their personal accomplishment seem so trivial and inconsequential so as to merit the comment that just any tom, dick and harry can do it without breaking a sweat, just because they are men...

 

[FlyingEagle]

How many of them still flying F-7 and where they are posted??

No one of them is flying fighter. 6 didn't qualify. One back off from F-7. As Sir Murad said 108 in his batch only 18 graduate and only 8 made it. So 7 is not a big number.

 

[Comet]

I would like to ask something:
Are women given special quota in PAF? Are males being ignored despite the fact they are better eligible for the job, just because women are needed in PAF?

 

[FlyingEagle]

I would like to ask something:
Are women given special quota in PAF? Are males being ignored despite the fact they are better eligible for the job, just because women are needed in PAF?

No. They earned it. There is no special quota for them.