Pakistani claims of high Taliban casualties 'wildly exaggerated' - US officials

[All-Green]

There are scenarios where the Taliban is a preferred rule,even I would say for the Pakistan Army. Example Afghanistan in 1992 when there was no law. The Taliban were chosen to create some order in the area. It is true they were imperfect, but their law was better than no law. And to all those bleedin' liberal douchebags who say nothing could be worse than the Taliban, you try living in the tribal lands of FATA for a week as an experiment.

As for the bombing. I couldn't say whether it's a good thing or a bad one. If it actually achieves something, good. But I'm not optimistic. This tactic has been tried before. Never works in this sort of warfare.

On another subject I hear they're saying the Taliban in the area are not locals, but Persian speaking! If true, bad news, and they do need to be wiped out (not that I wish it on Persian speakers of course!). But I think it's a nonsense story. They're locals. I never heard of Persians being able to invade and hold Pashtun majority territory.

RR,

What about the Punjabi Taliban from such organizations as Lashkar e Jhangvi?
Taliban are from various ethnic groups and many Uzbeks and other nationalities as well. The local Militant Mullah or some madrassas may join the TTP but that should not let us ignore the fact that the impetus is provided through the militant thrust of TTP into various areas.
Buner was peaceful but suddenly after TTP raid another group of Local Taliban arose, so to say.

Please note that the era of Mullah Omar is over...now its Mehsud and he has no qualms about targeting Tribal Jirgas, elders, Muslims, Pakistanis etc...
I do not think Taliban rule is preferred in most of NWFP or FATA.
All make reference to their unification of Afghanistan and their crackdown on outlaws etc but we are not Afghanistan and our mindset is quite different.

I know of an associate's family near Landi Kotal who were forced into providing food and accommodation for TTP guests.
Now the family was quite influential but were hopelessly outnumbered by hundreds of Taliban and had to comply.
He was the first one who actually opened my eyes to what is going on here and how much hate the Pakhtoons have against the TTP.

Regarding your implied lawlessness in FATA...do you really think Taliban are the answer to these issues?
Would it not be better to make FATA part of Pakistan proper without any dodgy middlemen who have had unaccounted funds in the past?
Why don't you instead want FATA integration into NWFP or as a separate province without the primitive method of governance in place since long!

I understand that we are all frustrated at the mismanagement in Pakistan but Talibanization is not the solution, even if it is Mullah Omar and his original Taliban.

 

[Solomon2]

the ongoing fight cannot be won by PA alone. Pakistan's administrative and political elites are also in a long, grinding and stamina destroying war to the finish whether they know it or not, and the winner gets an entire people. Their weapons are economic and social development, their heavy artillery - employment, their armoured divisions - food, shelter and clothing, their assault 'copters - education and health services.

I think there is another war. A war where the weapons are treachery and deceit, and the rewards are houses with portable generators, personal bodyguards, secret swiss bank accounts, and luxurious, secure retreats on the Mediterranean coast. If one side is fighting mostly for these and the other side is fighting for a slice of South Asia, who do you think is going to win in the long run?

 

[roadrunner]

RR,

What about the Punjabi Taliban from such organizations as Lashkar e Jhangvi?
Taliban are from various ethnic groups and many Uzbeks and other nationalities as well. The local Militant Mullah or some madrassas may join the TTP but that should not let us ignore the fact that the impetus is provided through the militant thrust of TTP into various areas.
Buner was peaceful but suddenly after TTP raid another group of Local Taliban arose, so to say.

Please note that the era of Mullah Omar is over...now its Mehsud and he has no qualms about targeting Tribal Jirgas, elders, Muslims, Pakistanis etc...
I do not think Taliban rule is preferred in most of NWFP or FATA.
All make reference to their unification of Afghanistan and their crackdown on outlaws etc but we are not Afghanistan and our mindset is quite different.

I know of an associate's family near Landi Kotal who were forced into providing food and accommodation for TTP guests.
Now the family was quite influential but were hopelessly outnumbered by hundreds of Taliban and had to comply.
He was the first one who actually opened my eyes to what is going on here and how much hate the Pakhtoons have against the TTP.

Regarding your implied lawlessness in FATA...do you really think Taliban are the answer to these issues?
Would it not be better to make FATA part of Pakistan proper without any dodgy middlemen who have had unaccounted funds in the past?
Why don't you instead want FATA integration into NWFP or as a separate province without the primitive method of governance in place since long!

I understand that we are all frustrated at the mismanagement in Pakistan but Talibanization is not the solution, even if it is Mullah Omar and his original Taliban.

I don't think the Taliban are the answer to anything personally. It's a case of pragmatism. Why was the Taliban the answer in 1996? I'll tell you why. Because there were marauding bands of fanatics created by you-know-who, and they needed to do something useful instead of being so chaotic when all the laws had broken down. So they were the option, and I suppose that is understandable. I'd like all Taliban ideology to leave the region.

And I don't think I'd want to see it in FATA. But it is there. And it's in Swat. And wherever else. The only real answer is to ride out the storm while the Indians and US are in Afghanistan, and then try and eradicate the Taliban ideology by re-education and development. I didn't know TTP was for joining Afghanistan. Where do you get that from?

"One consequence is that three feuding Taliban factions have now joined forces against ‘Obama, Zardari and Karzai’ in an agreement brokered by Mullah Omar. One of the factions is led by Baitullah Mehsud. The other two are pro-Afghan Taliban factions based in South and North Waziristan, which had largely refrained from attacking the Pakistan state and army but may not do so any longer."
LRB · Graham Usher: Taliban v. Taliban

Where does it say Mehsud is pro Afghan in that. I'll agree pro Afghan sentiment would become more popular due to the drone strikes though in the region. That is a Raplh Peter's map "generator".

Also integration of FATA can only occur with the people's wishes. The people of FATA joined Pakistan under condition that they had their own status within Pakistan. If that status is to be changed it can only be legally done through referendum.

 

[All-Green]

I don't think the Taliban are the answer to anything personally. It's a case of pragmatism. Why was the Taliban the answer in 1996? I'll tell you why. Because there were marauding bands of fanatics created by you-know-who, and they needed to do something useful instead of being so chaotic when all the laws had broken down. So they were the option, and I suppose that is understandable. I'd like all Taliban ideology to leave the region.

And I don't think I'd want to see it in FATA. But it is there. And it's in Swat. And wherever else. The only real answer is to ride out the storm while the Indians and US are in Afghanistan, and then try and eradicate the Taliban ideology by re-education and development. I didn't know TTP was for joining Afghanistan. Where do you get that from?

"One consequence is that three feuding Taliban factions have now joined forces against ‘Obama, Zardari and Karzai’ in an agreement brokered by Mullah Omar. One of the factions is led by Baitullah Mehsud. The other two are pro-Afghan Taliban factions based in South and North Waziristan, which had largely refrained from attacking the Pakistan state and army but may not do so any longer."
LRB · Graham Usher: Taliban v. Taliban

Where does it say Mehsud is pro Afghan in that. I'll agree pro Afghan sentiment would become more popular due to the drone strikes though in the region. That is a Raplh Peter's map "generator".

Also integration of FATA can only occur with the people's wishes. The people of FATA joined Pakistan under condition that they had their own status within Pakistan. If that status is to be changed it can only be legally done through referendum.

I didn't say that either, i know TTP wants nothing to do with Afghanistan but is after Pakistan.

Bro all i am saying is that maybe it is time for the decision to make FATA a province.
Maybe it is time for the referendum that you suggested, why should FATA not enjoy the status of other provinces?

We are riding a storm no doubt about it.

I am in agreement with you that initially Taliban wanted to and worked for law and order but eventually they went out of control and oppressed those whom they sought to protect...we can safely conclude that such movements shall never do any good.

I too want Taliban ideology to be shunned by the people.

 

[Elmo]

it won't matter to numbskulls like Roggio - because every single one of those 700+ terrorists won't be caught on camera in their death throws...

@ Agnostic Muslim This is RSF's report on the flow of information...

Reporters Without Borders
Reporters sans frontières - Reporters Without Borders - Reporteros sin fronteras


12 May 2009




PAKISTAN
Journalists flee Swat valley en masse

Reporters Without Borders is alarmed by the situation in the Swat valley as the Pakistani armed forces step up their operations against the Taliban there. Newspapers had already stopped publishing after the military imposed a curfew. Now journalists are fleeing to safer areas. The Khyber Union of Journalists today urged the government to allow the media access to Mingora, the largest city in the valley.

“It is now impossible to get independently-sourced information about what is happening in the Swat valley,” Reporters Without Borders said. “Journalists are fleeing en masse. None of them wants to stay there anymore. We urge the authorities to issue journalists with permits that allow them to circulate during curfew hours. We also call for immediate measures to guarantee the security of journalists, so that they can return to the valley and resume working there.”

Reporters Without Borders added: “The Swat valley has become a lawless area without news media and without journalists. This situation is unacceptable and must be remedied by the government at once.”

At a news conference today, Khyber Union of Journalists president Mohammad Riaz said: “There is a complete blackout of news from Swat, Buner and Dir. There is no source of dissemination of news. No one is aware about the actual situation.”

Swat press club president Salahuddin Khan told Reporters Without Borders yesterday that all the journalists had left the valley and that it was “now without any news media.”

Veteran journalists such as Ghulam Farroq, the editor of Shamal, and Fayyaz Zafar, the editor of the online newspaper Zama Swat, left Swat on 7 May and moved to cities such as Peshawar. “I have just left with my family and I am staying with a friend a long way from Mingora as journalism is no longer an easy trade to practice,” Farroq told Reporters Without Borders by phone.

A few journalists such as TV reporter Shireezada had been holding on despite the danger. He told Reporters Without Borders a few days ago: “Let’s hope nothing serious happens.” He said he had stockpiled fuel and food for the difficult days to come. He was the last reporter to try to provide information about what was happening in the combat zone.

Shireezada finally pulled out for safety reasons yesterday. “I have also left Swat with my family because it is extremely hard to be a journalist in the current situation,” he said. “Swat is now without any journalists.”

Shireezada said there were still several thousand inhabitants trapped in Mingora waiting for the end of the curfew in order to leave for safer areas. He added that they would soon run out of water and food because of the lack of electricity and the curfew.

 

[Bill Longley]

@ Agnostic Muslim This is RSF's report on the flow of information...

Reporters Without Borders
Reporters sans frontières - Reporters Without Borders - Reporteros sin fronteras


12 May 2009




PAKISTAN
Journalists flee Swat valley en masse

Reporters Without Borders is alarmed by the situation in the Swat valley as the Pakistani armed forces step up their operations against the Taliban there. Newspapers had already stopped publishing after the military imposed a curfew. Now journalists are fleeing to safer areas. The Khyber Union of Journalists today urged the government to allow the media access to Mingora, the largest city in the valley.

“It is now impossible to get independently-sourced information about what is happening in the Swat valley,” Reporters Without Borders said. “Journalists are fleeing en masse. None of them wants to stay there anymore. We urge the authorities to issue journalists with permits that allow them to circulate during curfew hours. We also call for immediate measures to guarantee the security of journalists, so that they can return to the valley and resume working there.”

Reporters Without Borders added: “The Swat valley has become a lawless area without news media and without journalists. This situation is unacceptable and must be remedied by the government at once.”

At a news conference today, Khyber Union of Journalists president Mohammad Riaz said: “There is a complete blackout of news from Swat, Buner and Dir. There is no source of dissemination of news. No one is aware about the actual situation.”

Swat press club president Salahuddin Khan told Reporters Without Borders yesterday that all the journalists had left the valley and that it was “now without any news media.”

Veteran journalists such as Ghulam Farroq, the editor of Shamal, and Fayyaz Zafar, the editor of the online newspaper Zama Swat, left Swat on 7 May and moved to cities such as Peshawar. “I have just left with my family and I am staying with a friend a long way from Mingora as journalism is no longer an easy trade to practice,” Farroq told Reporters Without Borders by phone.

A few journalists such as TV reporter Shireezada had been holding on despite the danger. He told Reporters Without Borders a few days ago: “Let’s hope nothing serious happens.” He said he had stockpiled fuel and food for the difficult days to come. He was the last reporter to try to provide information about what was happening in the combat zone.

Shireezada finally pulled out for safety reasons yesterday. “I have also left Swat with my family because it is extremely hard to be a journalist in the current situation,” he said. “Swat is now without any journalists.”

Shireezada said there were still several thousand inhabitants trapped in Mingora waiting for the end of the curfew in order to leave for safer areas. He added that they would soon run out of water and food because of the lack of electricity and the curfew.

sheerian zada is a one great honest reporter and i am proud he is part of my organization.
a year back unknown miscrents killed his sister and a week back unknown miscreants did fireing on his home.
If this brave man has left then situation is really bad

 

[abdulrafi]

Do not criticise american , they have better information as compared to us, before invading iraq they told american and rest of the world that iraq posses weapons of mass destructions and they recovered it

 

[khanz]

If pakistan exaggerated maybe these guys should look into U.S claims too maybe he should ask the afghan president if they're winning in a-stan why karzai family still live in pakistan and why he barely leaves kabul lol.