Pakistani claims of high Taliban casualties 'wildly exaggerated' - US officials

[shravan]

Why are there no maps of the front lines in Pakistani newspapers?

The invisible war

Check the link.

 

[Zob]

i think you can never be sure about how many TALIBAN you killed or any "GRUELLIA" outfit because hey once they lay down the arms you can never tell who is the terrorist....however having said that where are hate speeches from mullah sufi,fazlullah??? why have all the sucide bombings decreased where have the "TALIBAN CHECKPOSTS" disappered?? i think the silence from the enemy is a sign of retreat or heavy losses...

 

[S-2]

" i think the silence from the enemy is a sign of retreat or heavy losses..."

You're on the right track however if you really wish to measure success, you'll do it over months-not days, and you'll plan to track such for years. Nor will the signals of such be as simple as following the remorseless advances across some map-board.

The metrics we track in Iraq might serve as an interesting point-of-departure. Semi-urban terrain of high population densities, mixed village/farm use. Might be relevant to some or a great degree.

There will be a civil transformation of this area or the conditions which permitted the rise of the taliban will produce the same in another time.

That's part of the campaign. Want to track success/progress? Watch the civil affairs/reconstruction. Any progress in Bajaur last year and this spring? Nope. How do we know? Refugees in camps all winter and no reconstruction.

Until that's gotten correct and delivered, you'll be at war.

 

[RescueRanger]

The mere fact that UN agenices, Provincial Gov, NADRA all suggest that potentially upto 1 Million IDPs could be moving out of the region is proof of the level of combat taking place there.

DAWN.COM | Provinces | Heliborne troops land in Swat?s key Taliban stronghold

DAWN.COM | Pakistan | World Food Program to double IDP food supplies

DAWN.COM | Provinces | Red Crescent to expand relief work

DAWN.COM | World | UN refugee chief urges aid for Pakistani displaced

We have to ensure this time it is game over for these lunatics and our allies and most of all, our people need to support the brave men and women of the fighting forces risking their lives so that we can still enjoy Cable TV.

 

[HAIDER]

RAWALPINDI: Director General Inter Services Public Relations (ISPR) Maj. General Athar Abbas Tuesday said 751 militants have so far been killed while 29 security men martyred and 77 others injured in operation Raah-e-Haq underway in Swat and other parts of Malakand.

Giving updates of the ongoing operation, DG ISPR said the security forces have accomplished significant achievements, adding the images and videos of the dead militants will be released tomorrow.

He said today Pakistan army’s heliborne troops landed in Peochar, a key Taliban stronghold in the northwest district of Swat. Militants’ hideouts were destroyed in Baba Ziarat area and some arrests were also made, he told the reports.

Four security personnel lost their lives in militants’ attack on Kanju Police Station and Kilay while 4 militants were killed in Imam Dheri.

Maj. Gen. Athar Abbas said the army is setting up hospitals and camps for the IDPs coming from the battle zones and so far 1.3 million people have migrated. In this connection, services of NADRA are being used, he added.

He said Ibn-e-Aql, brother of Ibn-e-Umer, has been killed in the ongoing operation and added that no information has been received of any significant foreign militant’s presence.

The ISPR Chief said efforts are on to drive out the militants from the area. Operation has been conducted from Chakdarra to Gulabad and the militants are swiftly losing ground.

He said the military is abstaining from using helicopters for carrying out offensives to avoid collateral damage and main focus is on ground operation.

Maj. Gen. Athar Abbas said the militants have planted land mines on roads and ground in Mingora and Swat.

Government spokesman on the occasion announced that a special fund has been set up for the families affected by terrorist activities.

DG ISPR replying to a question said action is being taken after receiving report from the intelligence agencies but stopped short of giving any details.
751 militants killed, 29 troops martyred in operation: ISPR

 

[RescueRanger]

Any progress in Bajaur last year and this spring? Nope. How do we know? Refugees in camps all winter and no reconstruction.

Until that's gotten correct and delivered, you'll be at war.

A very sound observation, and i too support that assessment. I have seen what displacement can do first hand. We saw in 05 aftermath that potentially we risked having 3.5 million food insecure and aid dependent people in the region. Thanks to Earthquake Reconstruction & Rehab Authority, UN and International Partner support we were able to avert a disaster by developing robust reconstruction and rehab schemes in the region.

We will need to do the same in Bajur and SWAT, perhaps the NDMA should focus more on this and the IDPs then the upcomming monsoon flood risk mapping for Rawalpindi.

Ah well... That is the joy and curse of good old red-tape.

 

[Solomon2]

What you guys have missed is that Pakistan's experience of the world's beneficence after the '05 quake probably encouraged Pakistani leaders to give Swat to the Taliban in the first place, knowing that the onus for any ensuing refugee crisis would fall mostly upon the international community, rather than the GoP. This way more funds flow into the country - more money to be diverted into the pockets of corrupt Pakistani officials, that is.

 

[shravan]

What you guys have missed is that Pakistan's experience of the world's beneficence after the '05 quake probably encouraged Pakistani leaders to give Swat to the Taliban in the first place,

Terror charity turns to Pakistan war victims | The Australian

THE banned charity arm of Pakistan terror group Lashkar-e-Toiba is openly operating an ambulance service for hundreds of thousands of people fleeing the fighting across the North West Frontier Province.
.
.

Terror charity turns to Pakistan war victims | The Australian

 

[blain2]

It isn't anti-Pakistan bandwagon. Just a really hard introspection and then a conclusion.

Since "no one knows" what the army is up to, I can't trust it blindly. The army's history with these extremists in Fata and the deals being struck in Waziristan refuse to let me take it seriously.

So if you cannot trust it blindly, why not give the Army a chance to operate and consolidate instead of doubting? What other concrete proof do you or others have as to what the situation on the ground is? Why jump on this silly bash PA bandwagon when the sole purpose of many here is (even though nobody can back their **** up regardless of which country they represent, be it the US or India or Israel..all have ***ked up COIN and then on top of that they claim expertise) to just put down the PA. If you suggest exaggeration then its a fact of life and you have to get used to it. Those across the border and in Afghanistan and Iraq are really adept at it too. There is a certain psychology at play here to announce what is announced. Just run with it. It matters little as to how many, what matters more is that they see the iron and they are forced to disperse..this is essentially the success factor, not 1000 killed or 100 killed. If body count settled wars then we would all be at peace now as enough have been wasted.

Critique is nice and easy and it comes very cheap...let the operations go on and give them a chance.

 

[RescueRanger]

So if you cannot trust it blindly, why not give the Army a chance to operate and consolidate instead of doubting? What other concrete proof do you or others have as to what the situation on the ground is? Why jump on this silly bash PA bandwagon when the sole purpose of many here is (even though nobody can back their **** up regardless of which country they represent, be it the US or India or Israel..all have ***ked up COIN and then on top of that they claim expertise.) If you suggest exaggeration then its a fact of life and you have to get used to it. Those across the border and in Afghanistan and Iraq are really adept at it too. There is a certain psychology at play here to announce what is announced. Just run with it. It matters little as to how many, what matters more is that they see the iron and they are forced to disperse..this is essentially the success factor, not 1000 killed or 100 killed. If body count settled wars then we would all be at peace now as enough have been wasted.

Critique is nice and easy and it comes very cheap...let the operations go on and give them a chance.

Excellent sir... Well Said!

 

[Solomon2]

why not give the Army a chance to operate -

Stop that! Nobody here is talking about not giving the PA a chance. What we're talking about is that the PA is making claims and not offering proof. The PA's previous record is of boastful engagements followed by a a PA re-deployment and a Taliban advance. Why should the PA be believed now without further proofs?

 

[blain2]

"I WOULD SUGGEST THE US TAKE A SERIOUS LOOK AT ITS OWN OPS IN AFGHANISTAN, AS IT FIRES IT TOP GENERAL!"

You'll note that this isn't the first general nor service secretary fired by Gates. Having done so again, it seems self-evident that we DO look at our own ops with a very critical eye.

Correct, however we should be granted the same instead of the assumption that these poor Pakistanis are incapable of looking at their ops critically.

"WHY? INCOMPETENCE PERHAPS,"

Perhaps. We hold our commanders to high standards and expectations. Certainly dissatisfaction for which the SECDEF has exercised his prerogative and responsibility as a civilian leader. Is that troubling and what relevance does Afghanistan have to your own operational improvements?

The only relevance it has for us is that we do not criticize your operations as easily as many here do ours. I can sit here and point out very many flaws as I perceive them in the conduct of similar ops in Afghanistan, in IOK etc. yet I will abstain from doing so here (as some of it has been done in other threads and the rest may not help the discussion). The fact of the matter is that our situation is definitely more complex than what is faced by the US troops in Afghanistan due to very many variables (you are aware of quite a few). I think there is a need to recognize this and appreciate what the Army is trying to do.

"AND MY SUGGESTION TO OUR INDIAN BOARD MEMBERS IS THAT THEY NEED NOT JUMP ON THE BAND WAGON TO EARN "BROWNIE POINTS". TYPICAL REACTION THOUGH!"

You've one of the strongest intellects here. Ignore them.

[/QUOTE]

Agreed!

 

[ajpirzada]

What you guys have missed is that Pakistan's experience of the world's beneficence after the '05 quake probably encouraged Pakistani leaders to give Swat to the Taliban in the first place, knowing that the onus for any ensuing refugee crisis would fall mostly upon the international community, rather than the GoP. This way more funds flow into the country - more money to be diverted into the pockets of corrupt Pakistani officials, that is.

y do u always lik to go for sixers. y not singles or doubles just for a change??

 

[fatman17]

Stop that! Nobody here is talking about not giving the PA a chance. What we're talking about is that the PA is making claims and not offering proof. The PA's previous record is of boastful engagements followed by a a PA re-deployment and a Taliban advance. Why should the PA be believed now without further proofs?

i really like this sentence - EAT MY DUST!

 

[blain2]

Stop that! Nobody here is talking about not giving the PA a chance. What we're talking about is that the PA is making claims and not offering proof. The PA's previous record is of boastful engagements followed by a a PA re-deployment and a Taliban advance. Why should the PA be believed now without further proofs?

Well PA will give proof when PA is ready to do so. Until then its their operation and they are ones losing officers and troops on the ground. So at least at this point in time, I can tell you that they do not care who believes them and who does not while the fighting is going on and they are facing resistance.