Pakistani claims of high Taliban casualties 'wildly exaggerated' - US officials

[linkinpark]

The invisible war

Tuesday, May 12, 2009
Every TV news-channel in the country has it as the lead story. Every newspaper has it as the headline. It is discussed ad-nauseum on TV, the radio and in countless blogs on the internet. Yet we know surprisingly little – in fact beyond official daily briefings almost nothing - about the war with the Taliban. The TV channels show stock footage of Cobra helicopters and armour being moved on flatbed trucks and the very-capable army spokesperson gives a daily update in measured tones that tell us next to nothing of substance - and is not backed up by any battlefield reports or even still-pictures of our army in action. Whilst there is not an overt news blackout regarding the fighting in Swat and elsewhere, there is clearly tightly-managed access to and information-flow outwards about, the situation on the ground. There are good reasons why this might be – the Taliban are a sophisticated enemy, well-armed and equipped, capable of using electronic intelligence and skilled at news-management themselves. We do not want to offer them information on a plate in the name of 'press freedom' and at the same time give them an opportunity to make strategic and tactical decisions on the basis of what is in the public domain. It would be foolhardy in the extreme to reveal precisely where our troops are moving from and to and tantamount to issuing some of them with a death sentence – as the Taliban are now deploying sophisticated IED's and mines to complement their already-advanced ambush techniques.

Operational considerations notwithstanding; it may be in the interests of both the military and the politicians who issue their orders to be a little more forthcoming than they currently are.A key factor in winning this war is winning the hearts and minds of the general public. Of convincing the common man that the war now being fought is a just war, is our war and we are fighting it for the greater good. Today, there is guarded support from the common man, but questions are beginning to be asked – where are all these dead Taliban for one? Why is artillery being used to attack the Taliban rather than infantry who can then hold the position they have just taken? What is the physical state of the centre of towns like Mingora and why can't we have a couple of 'embedded' correspondents who can write a pooled dispatch for the English and Urdu press every day? We do not need to compromise our forces nor our military planners, but we do need to persuade an ever-sceptical public a little better than is currently the case.

The invisible war

 

[Elmo]

5,000 - 500 = 4.500 left - the ops go on !

500, nah. I have been following this, it should be more.

if the ops mean shelling a village and then moving ground troops, absolutely no intelligence network on the ground to buttress its actions, a high collateral damage thereby and just 500 extremists eradicated by their guesstimate... nope the operation is extremely late and shoddy.

@ linkinpark: Today, there is guarded support from the common man, but questions are beginning to be asked – where are all these dead Taliban for one? Why is artillery being used to attack the Taliban rather than infantry who can then hold the position they have just taken? What is the physical state of the centre of towns like Mingora and why can't we have a couple of 'embedded' correspondents who can write a pooled dispatch for the English and Urdu press every day? We do not need to compromise our forces nor our military planners, but we do need to persuade an ever-sceptical public a little better than is currently the case.


Well highlighted! Even if you talk to people from these places, they say the same thing. They have no idea what is going on in their own areas.

 

[All-Green]

I guess the Army should go in with good old muskets and scimitars to convince the experts residing everywhere that Army wants to go mano on mano with Taliban...very clever use of Army assets...
why not even wear an eye patch on one eye and tie both feet together while they are at it?

Sure would convince everyone if we see hand to hand combat everywhere and lose thousands of veteran soldiers because some armchair general thinks we should not use artillery and Air force on the TTP strongholds which are reinforced, well protected and covered by artillery, mortars and quad AAs!

Army is facing a well dug out enemy and boasting high numbers, what part of this reality misses most of us?
Army has reinforced the troops and the build up is quite unprecedented in these areas, however even to soften up resistance and take out strategic gun positions we need field artillery and air support.

I guess our media will again play the role it did in post Red Mosque scenario and we shall all vehemently agree that operation was a failure!

When you fight a group like TTP which has rained hell on this country do you not use those assets which can help overwhelm the hardened and well trained enemy or do you fight them without any advantage?

I really did not expect such comments after we have discussed the operational requirements on so many threads.

Regarding the so called failure in Waziristan, i do not agree that operation was a military failure.
There are thousands of Uzbeks, Tajiks, Chechens, Arabs who were killed by Army...there is a reason that SWAT is infested with TTP...it is because their allies desperately want to regain control in Tribal belt and in order to do so they need to divert the attention elsewhere.
As per my perception the foreign terrorist network is most likely controlling the TTP to make inroads into Pakistan and wants to re establish its lost influence in the tribal areas.
Had the operation in Tribal areas been a failure our troops in DG Khan to Kohat axis would have been ambushed many times by now.
This lack of coherence and manpower to assail this critical supply route indicates that in tribal areas Army was successful in breaking the enemy front.


Regarding whether politically the operation was successful or not...i guess even Swat operation may not be politically successful...after all even Red Mosque operation is called a colossal failure whereas we all witnessed the hardheadedness of the armed rebels and their firm ambitions.

Such morons will always be there who want to find fault in everything we do... if we care about how to appeal to their good side then i am afraid that is an utterly futile thought.

 

[muse]

All Green

Khizr -- please put forward more persuasive positions - being defensive isn't going to help anyone.

If the claims the interior minister has made are true or factural, it is not unseemly to us to be convincing - and surely this is possible. efore

I think you will find that a media policy was not thought over before this operation - and therefore the charge of "ad hoc".

And fromwhere have you come up with :

Army is facing a well dug out enemy and boasting high numbers, what part of this reality misses most of us?

How can the ISPR and interior ministry ministry help clarify?

 

[Patriot]

I watched General Athar on Geo TV and he said ISPR will release operation footage very very soon.

 

[All-Green]

All Green

Khizr -- please put forward more persuasive positions - being defensive isn't going to help anyone.

If the claims the interior minister has made are true or factural, it is not unseemly to us to be convincing - and surely this is possible. efore

I think you will find that a media policy was not thought over before this operation - and therefore the charge of "ad hoc".

And fromwhere have you come up with :



How can the ISPR and interior ministry ministry help clarify?

Sir,

I am actually not defending Rehman Malik.
My comments were on the use of military assets and not the media policy. I was actually reading many posts whereby we are questioning the use of artillery and air force and the tactics used by Army.
For some reason i see that TTP is always underestimated by many people regarding their warfare capabilities.
They are a nasty bunch and well equipped!

Regarding the numbers and tactics used by Taliban, that has been the case in previous operations as well.
Fazlullah has been using 5000-6000 men since a good couple of years and all of these men have been active in Swat.
Operations were conducted in Swat before and i am aware of engagements where TTP contingents outnumbered the Army so it is not like Army will always be overwhelming TTP with 10 to 1 superiority.
For me to assume that TTP have suddenly gone soft and are not using their previous doctrine of well entrenched static defense with heavy weapons when the terrain favors them would be a big folly.

Of course i am not on the front line and i agree that some visibility needs to be given in a controlled manner, however not to trust the GOP, ISPR and to put all faith in media would also be wrong.

And why Khizr?
cause of the green...
I am not worth the title...you are too kind!

 

[ajpirzada]

may be its hard for US to believe this coz when they go for air strikes only civillains get killed. the only source rit now is pak army. unless some of the US officials have got contacts within talibans???? also army is not supposed to take pictures of talibans who get killed. army is there to fight and not to practice photography.
i believe that the figure given by army is correct. while the one given by Rehman malik, i dont how where did he get that figure from. Rehman malik can say anything lik he has always does

 

[Jihad]

American propaganda.
Ignore it, we aren't their pets.
Besides, Americans should be the last people talking about "exaggerating" things, how can they criticize us right now when they're doing disastrous in Afghanistan and Iraq.
Hypocrisy at it's best, it's actually quite amusing.
Salute our troops defending our homeland!

 

[ajpirzada]

American propaganda.
Ignore it, we aren't their pets.
Besides, Americans should be the last people talking about "exaggerating" things, how can they criticize us right now when they're doing disastrous in Afghanistan and Iraq.
Hypocrisy at it's best, it's actually quite amusing.
Salute our troops defending our homeland!

na man dont say that. they did quite well. after killing all the al qaeda ppl in iraq now they have started killing their own soldiers.
always one step ahead of us

 

[shravan]

Rah-e-haq III, which began late January, 2009, was the largest involving 17-20,000 soldiers, many from the same divisions before with additional brigades from other divisions, including the 14th Division. The general plan remained the same in occupying the highest terrain as the army sweeps along the main roads to secure the main city and clear the enemy. After a true combined arms attack, Minapura, was retaken and secured. The average death rate among the terrorists in Swat has been around 25-30 daily. It was estimated that 1700 terrorists were killed.

----
American have their reasons...

 

[Cheetah786]

Gentle Man remember it's a widely accepted practice in USA and other part of the world when source has no name to it. Its guaranteed This story is a brain child of the writer and far from truth but published any as they just want money and telling the truth specially in favour of muslim country by American jewish press is not going to happen.

US military and intelligence officials

Un named officals

 

[Zob]

sucide bombings in pakistan are down....speeches from MUSLIM KHAN,SUFI MOHAMMED are down......no mention of TALIBAN roaming freely either....i guess these figures should be authentic given these core problems having reduced!!

 

[S-2]

"I WOULD SUGGEST THE US TAKE A SERIOUS LOOK AT ITS OWN OPS IN AFGHANISTAN, AS IT FIRES IT TOP GENERAL!"

You'll note that this isn't the first general nor service secretary fired by Gates. Having done so again, it seems self-evident that we DO look at our own ops with a very critical eye.

"WHY? INCOMPETENCE PERHAPS,"

Perhaps. We hold our commanders to high standards and expectations. Certainly dissatisfaction for which the SECDEF has exercised his prerogative and responsibility as a civilian leader. Is that troubling and what relevance does Afghanistan have to your own operational improvements?

"AND MY SUGGESTION TO OUR INDIAN BOARD MEMBERS IS THAT THEY NEED NOT JUMP ON THE BAND WAGON TO EARN "BROWNIE POINTS". TYPICAL REACTION THOUGH!"

You've one of the strongest intellects here. Ignore them.

 

[Solomon2]

Why are there no maps of the front lines in Pakistani newspapers?

 

[S-2]

"Why are there no maps of the front lines in Pakistani newspapers?"

Chart the daily progress there, Mr. Armchair General? Counter-Insurgencies have very fluid "front lines" where they exist at all. What's the point except to satisfy your ignorant and purient interests then?