Pakistani Aircraft Engines, SAMs & AAMs

[araz]

Well judging by the relative success of the the two countries programs. I would suggest that Pak has taken the correct path. That is to say improve upon designs that are already there.
Indigenous is only of value IF the project is delivered on time and at a cheaper price to imports. Otherwise all it is , is a ego boosting effort.

Oh and for the record reverse engineering a Cruise missile in 5-6 years is no mean feat (after all what is the point of reinventing the wheel?)

AsSalam oAlaikum.
I think we need to take a reality check here. India bashing aside, whether we have had more or less success than them is a difficult question to answer. The fact remains that technologically we Pakistanis are at a lower rung of development than the Indians. India has been assembling Aircrafts since 60s whereas we are today in a position to assemble our first/second aircraft with minor input into building some components.
Having progressed from this level, India has decided to develop its own systems and incorporate them into its forces. Now this is where all the problems arise. It is technically a more advanced stage. Even the Swedes designing Saab Gripen had a lot of problems resulting in the loss of their prototype. The Chinese lost their J10 and needed to go through a phase of extensive redesign. So the J10 project, without its engine has lasted over two decades and is now coming to fruition.
The question is why do nations do it. A logical answer is national pride. However a much more potent reason is even if a project fails, people learn a lot from it and go on to do bigger and better things.
Even the Americans cannot say that all of their projects are successful. You can write books about all the failures that they have had and how it has cost lives before the problem was corrected , or the project scrapped. The other reason for failure may be various vested interests whos interests lie in continuous buying from a source so that they can get their cut backs. Brothers, when it comes to cold hard cash, the powers that be go to great lenghts to save guard their own interests.
To me it seems that we are laughing prematurely. eventually, we will climb the next rung of designing our own products and will have our own sets of failures. To be charitable now may save us some embarrassment later on.
WaSalam
Araz

 

[Contrarian]

lol, pakistan is not JOINTLY DEVELOPING anything like SD-10. The max it will get is licenced assembly.Dont be misguided, Pakistan did not make anything in SD-10.

Same with JSOW, Pakistan will only be sold the missile, it wont be made or assembled or anything there.

 

[Contrarian]

Having progressed from this level, India has decided to develop its own systems and incorporate them into its forces. Now this is where all the problems arise. It is technically a more advanced stage. Even the Swedes designing Saab Gripen had a lot of problems resulting in the loss of their prototype. The Chinese lost their J10 and needed to go through a phase of extensive redesign. So the J10 project, without its engine has lasted over two decades and is now coming to fruition.

The question is why do nations do it. A logical answer is national pride. However a much more potent reason is even if a project fails, people learn a lot from it and go on to do bigger and better things.
Araz

Excellent para araz. This is exactly what im trying to say here. People keep on comparing JF-17 and LCA. They are made on a different leve, not technologically, but the method in which they have been built. This is India's own baby. We have made Sukhoi''s etc in the past which Pakistan is doing with JF-17 now.

 

[melb4aust]

Excellent para araz. This is exactly what im trying to say here. People keep on comparing JF-17 and LCA. They are made on a different leve, not technologically, but the method in which they have been built. This is India's own baby. We have made Sukhoi''s etc in the past which Pakistan is doing with JF-17 now.

I am still doubtful (without being patriotic) .....with LCA Project.....they are not developing everything by their own... for example lets say engine plus much more....i would agree that india may be developing more technological things by their own for LCA compared to JF-17, but if u look at JF-17 program......it would'nt have been that much successful without Pakistan's (PAF) intervention, Pakistan indeed participated quite abit into the program from the very initial developing stages to testing. It's way way more than just assembling the aircarfts as majority of our fellows here misunderstand some facts.


The project-33 is no more the project-33 or super-7



Its today's JF-17 thunder.... accept it or not

 

[Contrarian]

Melby, from airframe to composites, to FBW, to weapons, to avionics , wind tunnel testing, all made in India.

The engine, radar (BOTH under development) are currently bought from other nations till we complete their development.

This is something completely different on a much different level. Pakistan is doing what we have already done with Sukhoi's and more importantly with teh Jaguars who are made at HAL, even they have Indian components, etc, etc, significant upgrades using Indian technology. But LCA is TOTALLY different. I hope you appreciate what is being tried in India.

 

[melb4aust]

Melby, from airframe to composites, to FBW, to weapons, to avionics , wind tunnel testing, all made in India.

The engine, radar (BOTH under development) are currently bought from other nations till we complete their development.

This is something completely different on a much different level. Pakistan is doing what we have already done with Sukhoi's and more importantly with teh Jaguars who are made at HAL, even they have Indian components, etc, etc, significant upgrades using Indian technology. But LCA is TOTALLY different. I hope you appreciate what is being tried in India.

Dude dont get me wrong i aprreciate what india's doing to develope their own stuff. but to say Jf-17 is different compare to LCA..... nah i wont agree on this....Pakistan itself gonna prepare the airframes to HUD as it was said before..........., not to mention u cant neglect that ur not getting any help from russians on LCA as pakistan will get from China.

The 2nd version of JF-17 will be mostly developed by Pakistan itself..........

 

[ahussains]

Melby, from airframe to composites, to FBW, to weapons, to avionics , wind tunnel testing, all made in India.

The engine, radar (BOTH under development) are currently bought from other nations till we complete their development.

This is something completely different on a much different level. Pakistan is doing what we have already done with Sukhoi's and more importantly with teh Jaguars who are made at HAL, even they have Indian components, etc, etc, significant upgrades using Indian technology. But LCA is TOTALLY different. I hope you appreciate what is being tried in India.

And What you say about MIG 21 also known as the Flying Coffins in IAF they are Also made in the HAL .. What happend in future if Sukhoi and Jagguars also go on the same path ,,

 

[melb4aust]

And What you say about MIG 21 also known as the Flying Coffins in IAF they are Also made in the HAL .. What happend in future if Sukhoi and Jagguars also go on the same path ,,

I did'nt get the single word u've said....could yaa please eleborate more, what exactly ru trying to say.......

 

[Keysersoze]

I dont get the single word u've said....could yaa please eleborate more.......

I think he is refering to the problems that HAL have had assembling aircraft etc etc

 

[melb4aust]

I think he is refering to the problems that HAL have had assembling aircraft etc etc

I got it!!!, but what it has to do with pakistan's thunder program.....thats why i was a bit confused.

 

[ahussains]

I did'nt get the single word u've said....could yaa please eleborate more, what exactly ru trying to say.......

i just wana say that the HAL experinece is not good with MIG 21 which they produced in India . IAF has higest ratio of plane losses in the WORLD PAF also produce MIG 21 (J7) how many planes they losses the past every one know that .. They always try to promot them selves they are superior to every one some times they compare there LCA with F-18 or more superior to it.. the plane which is still in prodcution ..

Sorry if hits any one feelingss

 

[blain2]

i just wana say that the HAL experinece is not good with MIG 21 which they produced in India . IAF has higest ratio of plane losses in the WORLD PAF also produce MIG 21 (J7) how many planes they losses the past every one know that .. They always try to promot them selves they are superior to every one some times they compare there LCA with F-18 or more superior to it.. the plane which is still in prodcution ..

Sorry if hits any one feelingss

Pakistan does not produce J-7s but overhauls them and puts them together again. The difference in Mig-21 and other assemblies like Su aircraft could be that the machinery is newer and better methodologies and stricter inspections are conducted.

Tribalism and jingoism gets in the way of all analysis (this goes for us and them)...so lets just hope and pray that our JF-17 production lines are reliable and produce high quality aircraft.

 

[Contrarian]

JF-17 is what China had, they gave the blue prints, etc etc etc.

Seriously, are u telling me Pakistan can make a plane alone? They dont even have the infrastructure for it. Tell me what research has Pakistan done in material structure(composites)???

JF-17 does not even use composites, its a very basic plane with good avionics(as what Pakistan plans to put in it), and Pakistan did not even design the airframe. Its only going to be making something thats already made. Its different from developing something. Had Pakistan developed the Jf-17 i would have said its something to be proud of. But we have been doing it for a LONG LONG time.

 

[melb4aust]

Seriously, are u telling me Pakistan can make a plane alone? They dont even have the infrastructure for it. Tell me what research has Pakistan done in material structure(composites)???

Who is saying Pakistan is developing it alone or by its own............its a collaboration between China and Pakistan, dont try to divert the attentions here.

And ur making me laugh here as well. Do u think india is developing the whole LCA by its own... its probably will be the joke of the day. Tell me if the Russians and few other foreign sources are not involved in the developement.

 

[Contrarian]

They have been involved where MAJOR roadblocks have been hit. Like for engine, etc