Pakistani actress lashes out at Sanjay Leela Bhansali for making Heeramandi, says it’s ‘not his to make’

[SIPRA]

Throw the kitchen sink at Zia too.

No need. He did good things for Pakistan, too. His decision, to arrest the onslaught of USSR, was correct, an it saved Pakistan.

 

[El Sidd]

No need. He did good things for Pakistan, too. His decision, to arrest the onslaught of USSR, was correct, an it saved Pakistan.

In hindsight or you had the same views back then?

We will not partake in someone else's war, would have been a popular slogan too.

Do you think its easy to subvert such a diverse mass while being an unpopular dictator?

Or do you think exploitation of women should be allowed by the state as cultural identity and the constitution amended as such.

ek confused hippie PM kafi nahi hai?

 

[Turingsage]

this is recent survey

https://twitter.com/x/status/1443916379162247170

Unauthorized Access

Did they ask how many films they viewed If any ?

 

[SIPRA]

In hindsight or you had the same views back then?

We will not partake in someone else's war, would have been a popular slogan too.

You are right. Back then, I was against Zia, because then, I was also a quasi-socialist.

That is, how life is. It is all illusion, as it seems.

"Dil mat ganwa, khabar na sahi, saer hi sahi
Ae bay-dimaagh, aina tamsaal-dar hae"
(Ghalib)

 

[jamahir]

Thank you for your faith in me.

Welcome.

Bindusara was not born of Chandragupta's Greek wife.

I had edited in this in post# 41 :

From this Wiki :

Parents

Bindusara was born to Chandragupta, the founder of the Mauryan Empire. This is attested by several sources, including the various Puranas and the Mahavamsa. The Dipavamsa, on the other hand, names Bindusara as the son of the king Shushunaga. The prose version of Ashokavadana states that Bindusara was the son of Nanda and a 10th-generation descendant of Bimbisara. Like Dipavamsa, it omits Chandragupta's name altogether. The metrical version of Ashokavadana contains a similar genealogy with some variations.

Chandragupta had a marriage alliance with the Seleucids, which has led to speculation that Bindusara's mother might have been Greek or Macedonian. However, there is no evidence of this. According to the 12th century Jain writer Hemachandra's Parishishta-Parvan, the name of Bindusara's mother was Durdhara.

I dont think he accepted external origin of Hinduism. Lets confirm from him again.

@UDAYCAMPUS

In any case, there are many Indians who have fallen prey to decades of British propaganda.

Like who ?

However, lets discuss facts as I said. How is it that no Hindu texts or verses talk of any foreign land?

This was 3000 or so years ago. As I said the diverging of original Hinduism from the Iranic religions must have been through a cultural tussle which led to the migration of Hindus to neighboring India. There was no incentive for these migrant Hindus to remember their previous land unlike the Parsis.

Manusmriti accepting Hindus were always in minority as the percentage of non-Brahmis is much higher.

But they are the government, with the most prominent one - Yogi - being positioned as the next PM.

In any case, caste discrimination is not as high as it used to earlier.

Not so, it is still practised. Just a few days ago this happened in Karnataka :

The Kushtagi police on Wednesday arrested five people from Miyapur in the taluk for practising untouchability following a complaint lodged by the Social Welfare department.

The accused had fined Rs 25,000 on Dalit parents of a two-year-old boy after the latter entered the Anjaneya Temple at the village near Hanumasagar. The incident, which came to light late on Monday, has caused public outrage.

Social Welfare Department assistant director Balachandra Sanganal took cognizance of the incident and filed a police complaint on Tuesday night after the parents of the Dalit boy and locals refuse to lodge a plaint, despite repeated requests by the taluk officials.

Deputy Commissioner Vikas Suralkar and SP T Sreedhara, along with senior officials, visited the village on Wednesday. The officers held a meeting with the villagers to create awareness against such practices among them.

Condemning the incident in question, the deputy commissioner said a secret survey is being conducted through a voluntary organisation to find any such instance of social evil practiced in the district. “If found, stringent action will be taken against the perpetrators,” the DC said.

Closure notice to hotel

Meanwhile, Channarayapatna (Hassan district) Tahsildar J B Maruti on Wednesday slapped a closure notice on a hotel owner in Dindaguru village following the complaints of practicing untouchability. The hotel owner, belonging to an upper caste, is said to have barred the Dalits from entering his eatery. He used to serve food to Dalits outside the hotel.

Tahsildar Maruthi said that he visited the hotel and issued a closure notice to the hotel owner.

Alright. But, we have a saying in Punjab:
"Natha Singh and Prem Singh
One and the same thing"

OR as a poet Zafar Ali Khan said, before independence:

"Dunya main balaayain dau he tau haen, ik Savarkar, ik Gandhi hae
Ik jhoot ka chalta jhakarh hae, ik makar ki uthti aandhi hae"

No comments.

No need. He did good things for Pakistan, too. His decision, to arrest the onslaught of USSR, was correct, an it saved Pakistan.

Saved from... ?

 

[El Sidd]

You are right. Back then, I was against Zia, because then, I was also a quasi-socialist.

That is, how life is. It is all illusion, as it seems.

Apka oonth kabhi to kisi karvat bethega.

 

[magra]

This was 3000 or so years ago. As I said the diverging of original Hinduism from the Iranic religions must have been through a cultural tussle which led to the migration of Hindus to neighboring India. There was no incentive for these migrant Hindus to remember their previous land unlike the Parsis.

But earliest Hindu scriptures avaiable are also pretty old and there were centuries of oral hymns passed down generations. Not a single word hinting foreign origin in any of that. Whereas if you read Ramayan or Mahabharat, Indian lands are described in great detail.

But they are the government, with the most prominent one - Yogi - being positioned as the next PM.

1. Yogi is not a Brahmin, but a Thakur.
2. Although I dont like him, but where did you get that he is playing caste politics. He is playing communal politics.

Not so, it is still practised. Just a few days ago this happened in Karnataka :

Still practised, but to a much lesser extent than earlier.

 

[SIPRA]

Apka oonth kabhi to kisi karvat bethega.

Hardly. I, often, see the brink of grave, in front of me:
"Shaakh say waabastagi kab tak, kay dar pae hay hawa
Aek pal larzain gay, tootain gay, bikhar jayain gay hum"
(Nasir Kazmi)

 

[Hareeb]

He should make a movie on Indian army's wife swaping culture - it will gauge more views than this Heeramandi and stealing others' cultural identities.

 

[SIPRA]

Saved from... ?

For that, you will have to go to the history of evolution of collusion, between Pashtun separatists (Bacha Khan et al), Baloch separatists (Achakzai et al), Afghanistan, India and USSR. It is a long story. Had USSR consolidated its occupation over Afghanistan; the next target was to be Baluchistan. At least, that was, what was the perception of Pakistan military Establishment. It was not at all the decision of Zia alone.

 

[Maula Jatt]

For that, you will have to go to the history of evolution of collusion, between Pashtun separatists (Bacha Khan et al), Baloch separatists (Achakzai et al), Afghanistan, India and USSR. It is a long story. Had USSR consolidated its occupation over Afghanistan; the next target was to be Baluchistan. At least, that was, what was the perception of Pakistan military Establishment. It was not at all the decision of Zia alone.

Americans were being a bunch of cuck holds and said they'll "reinforce" the borders so don't engage with the USSR
thankfully we had a guy who realized the game and took measures to protect the country from the pig soviets

He had the balls to go on his own and confront them without int support at first

 

[SIPRA]

Americans were being a bunch of cuck holds and said they'll "reinforce" the borders so don't engage with the USSR
thankfully we had a guy who realized the game and took measures to protect the country from the pig soviets

He had the balls to go on his own and confront them without int support at first

I am certain that it was such a threat that had it been ZAB or any other; he would have gone the same course. If US had not come in aid; Pakistan would have gone to China, KSA etc. etc. for the job. It was totally unacceptable, that USSR, in collusion with India, was directly now on your border.

 

[Varunastra]

Hi @magra @jamahir

Like I said before Hinduism has always been a religion to adopt new ideas and people into it's fold. With current sciences especially in linguistics tracing commonality between sanskrit and say avestan/latin, common religious elements like presence of devas and asuras it would really be injustice to think we had zero influence coming from people migrating from the steppes who also influenced other cultures. But the fact of the matter is that it is just one piece of the pie. Majority of current Hinduism has moulded in the subcontinent, the biggest proof being all of our holy sites being in the subcontinent itself, and so calling it foreign also doesn't serve it justice. I think we can agree on a safe middle ground, where we recognize the multiple layers of ideologies and people who influenced our religion and also of our most recent ancestors who developed the religion right here in the subcontinent.

 

[Paitoo]

This is a multifaceted issue and knee jerk reactions are not very helpful.

I agree with the actress to the extent that if it is not a collaborative project between Indian and Pakistani artists then it gets reduced to a superficial one. How much authenticity is possible without accounts from actual Pakistanis, especially Lahoris. In the total absence of visas, will any Indian team member be able to visit the location to get an idea of anything at all? It will be a highly fictionalized account, with absurd creative liberties that Bhansali is infamous for. Perhaps because he knows that he needs very little real facts for his style of movie making, he has chosen such a subject.

Some righteous Indians were very upset when Slumdog Millionaire was released. They criticized it as 'poverty p**n', stereotyping and a gora's view of India, devoid of any ground level knowledge.

On the other hand, how would this Pakistani actress feel if the movie was being made by US based Pakistani artists with no connection to Pakistan except their origin. Worse, if this was a gora project? Would she be as critical with her choice of words? I suspect her angst also has to do with the subject. She probably feels that of all the subjects within Pakistan, Bhansali chose a red light area.

Moreover, what does she mean by 'our heritage'? Is art anyone's heritage at all? In a region that shares so much, can anyone, especially an artist lay claim to something being theirs? Should a Japanese not make a movie on a Korean subject? Should a Polish film maker not make a film about Germany? Should a bunch of Italians not get together and produce a sitar music album? A better question is, has this not already been happening all this while? Should Indian and Pakistani classical musicians meet and decide that one will play only tabla, another only sarangi and so on?

Personally I abhor Bhansali's movies. They have little to do with reality and exaggerate historical stereotypes, with nauseating amount of drama and some political correctness thrown in. More than appropriation, Pakistani artists should be worried about a highly touristified misadventure, a cringe inducing drama where every single line of screenplay is uttered as if Moses is receiving the ten commandments from god. Yes, the entire set will look like a five star heritage hotel, costumes will weigh 30 kilos each and actors will speak what Indians think Lahoris speak. I am not looking forward to it.

PS: I would love it if a Pakistani film maker decides to make Mahabharat. People wanting to explore your culture and history is a compliment, but it should be done without commentary on sensitive topics because unfortunately that privilege is reserved only for 'sons and daughters of the soil'

 

[Maula Jatt]

This is a multifaceted issue and knee jerk reactions are not very helpful.

I agree with the actress to the extent that if it is not a collaborative project between Indian and Pakistani artists then it gets reduced to a superficial one. How much authenticity is possible without accounts from actual Pakistanis, especially Lahoris. In the total absence of visas, will any Indian team member be able to visit the location to get an idea of anything at all? It will be a highly fictionalized account, with absurd creative liberties that Bhansali is infamous for. Perhaps because he knows that he needs very real facts for his style of movie making, he has chosen such a subject.

Some righteous Indians were very upset when Slumdog Millionaire was released. They criticized it as 'poverty p**n', stereotyping and a gora's view of India, devoid of any ground level knowledge.

On the other hand, how would this Pakistani actress feel if the movie was being made by US based Pakistani artists with no connection to Pakistan except their origin. Worse, if this was a gora project? Would she be as critical with her choice of words? I suspect her angst also has to do with the subject. She probably feels that of all the subjects within Pakistan, Bhansali chose a red light area.

Moreover, what does she mean by 'our heritage'? Is art anyone's heritage at all? In a region that shares so much, can anyone, especially an artist lay claim to something being theirs? Should a Japanese not make a movie on a Korean subject? Should a Polish film maker not make a film about Germany? A better question is, has this not already been happening all this while?

Personally I abhor Bhansali's movies. They have little to do with reality and exaggerate historical stereotypes, with nauseating amount of drama and some political correctness thrown in. More than appropriation, Pakistani artists should be worried about a highly touristified misadventure, a cringe inducing drama where every single line of screenplay is uttered as if Moses is receiving the ten commandments from god. Yes, the entire set will look like a five star heritage hotel, costumes will weigh 30 kilos each and actors will speak what Indians think Lahoris speak. I am not looking forward to it.

PS: I would love it if a Pakistani film maker decides to make Mahabharat. People wanting to explore your culture and history is a compliment, but it should be done without commentary on sensitive topics because unfortunately that privilege is reserved only for 'sons and daughters of the soil'

A- A she is a Lahori that's why the reaction(people in old cities have a certain attitude and pride in thier cities- a Parisian, Instanmbul) add in that Lahore is to Punjab as Kolkata is to a Bangal and Delhi is to a Hindustani

and a foreigner who cannot speak punjabi decides to make a film on such an important city without experiencing the city, it's alleyways, it's language, it's vibe and culture

He 150% cannot come close to representing the city - so an authentic product cannot be expected and in the end as a man who traces his lineage to the city for last 300 odd years
I'll feel personally hurt and offended if he purposely misrepresents a city that he already knows nothing about

Tbh Bollywood already has a history of severely misrepresenting Pak in general cause there was movie I watched in early 2010s where they named part of the city as terrorist bs- but knowing the city I knew how ridiculous it was as that area was party centeral where rich kids go for clubbing

B- I mean can these actors even get the Lahori accent, do they even realize even in Lahore we have different accents in different parts of the city?
But what they do with Pakistanis is they give us a old Hindustani urdu nastalikhi accent

Well by god it's hard to find people talking in that accent in everyday life...

C- I don't think it's red-light district thing (for some here they might feel a certain way but her argument isn't that) cause 1- at this point Heera mandi is renowned throughout the region (used as slurs too) and we are comfortable with that
Cause there's no other choice but to be comfortable with that?

also we have made tons of dramas on this shady inner city life of Lahore highlighting the sociol ills in the society of that area

this really really dark a** drama comes to mind- I'll recommend it if you want to watch dark stuff ( old drama that's why the crappy graphics)

(Can Sanju ever pull of this level of authenticity in his film- even if he wanted to he can't)

D- I don't mind Bollywood guys making films about our people
But I want locals to participate and guide him on
I also want characters actors from the city involved

Can you imagine a Bollywood actor knowing how a man from gawallmandi speaks, his slang or the slang word of a hira mandi

A local actor or actress like herself can easily fit and help

My issue is your "perception" and "stereotypes" guiding you throughout the film without any true local input