Pakistan working on Nuclear Submarine ?

[T-Rex]

Is it impossible to convert AIP subs into nuclear subs? I believe Pakistan is working on miniature nuclear reactors that can replace the diesel engines of the conventional subs if it does not mean modifying the hull.

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

So does that mean Pakistan wants to be a superpower @barbarosa ? Let me ask you a question then, why in the world would the Pakistani Government spend a lot of money it can barely afford when that money can be used to educate and raise the living standards of its citizens? You might answer its for deterrent against your neighbor or whatever, but for crying out loud, money doesnt grow on trees in Pakistan. China is an example, before becoming what it is today, it has chosen to invest in educating its people not by arming to the teeth first. I mean I dont think India is going to invade you guys anytime soon with your nukes and all. May I have your take on this one @Oscar ?



Agreed! No country would. Not the sane ones anyway.

"You never can tell" - even George Bernard Shaw (Irish Playwright and Thinker) had to admit. China's strategy may be to keep India always busy vis-a-vis Pak. By helping Pak to complete the triad, China will up the game a few notches higher..

 

[wasileo80]

Is it impossible to convert AIP subs into nuclear subs? I believe Pakistan is working on miniature nuclear reactors that can replace the diesel engines of the conventional subs if it does not mean modifying the hull.

No it cannot.

For that matter it has to be starting from design phase and have to build a new submarine.

 

[T-Rex]

No it cannot.

Would you explain the reason please?

 

[volatile]

Is it impossible to convert AIP subs into nuclear subs? I believe Pakistan is working on miniature nuclear reactors that can replace the diesel engines of the conventional subs if it does not mean modifying the hull.

No it cannot.

For that matter it has to be starting from design phase and have to build a new submarine.

Yes it is possible .Infact Chinese boats we will be acquiring has design for miniature reactor ,Yes Pak is working on it for a while as per info posted couple of months back its already tested and ready to fit in .So 8 Subs coming from China ,4 will be conventional ones from China ,2 will be conventional build in Pakistan , 2 will be probably nuke .AIP is another system and Nuke is another .AIP system we will have will probably be Western system so I am pointing out some details for obvious reasons the reference for this information and even authenticity is little hard to prove but all this info has gone thru and discussed

 

[mehboobkz]

Would you explain the reason please?

The displacement for nuclear propulsion submarine is 3 times that of AIP submarine.

Nuclear propulsion system as the tenant, occupies lot of space of the sub.
It occupies almost half the sub space:

 

[Penguin]

The displacement for nuclear propulsion submarine is 3 times that of AIP submarine.

Nuclear propulsion system as the tenant, occupies lot of space of the sub.
It occupies almost half the sub space:

View attachment 305381

Propulsion does occupy nearly half a nuclear sub. However, not all of propulsion is the nuclear part. So, in effect, the nuclear component is more like a quarter or less of the boat length.

The Shortfin Barracuda is 97 metres in length and displaces 4,500 tons when surfaced. This conventionally powered, AIP equipped sub will be a version of DCNS's 4700-tonne nuclear-powered Barracuda submarine (SSN).

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...a/news-story/6fcfe2d0e1c5f68b17e5df4b18501a7d

Are you possibly comparing with SSBNs?

As compared to a conventional sub or two

 

[mehboobkz]

@Penguin

We know of AIP submarines that have displacement of 1600 tons.

But have you seen such a displacement, when we talk of Nuke subs?

You wont find any.

 

[MKC]

Yes it is possible .Infact Chinese boats we will be acquiring has design for miniature reactor ,Yes Pak is working on it for a while as per info posted couple of months back its already tested and ready to fit in .So 8 Subs coming from China ,4 will be conventional ones from China ,2 will be conventional build in Pakistan , 2 will be probably nuke .AIP is another system and Nuke is another .AIP system we will have will probably be Western system so I am pointing out some details for obvious reasons the reference for this information and even authenticity is little hard to prove but all this info has gone thru and discussed

In $3 Billion total cost?
Edit: Sorry, it is $5 billion for 8 submarines.

 

[volatile]

In $3 Billion total cost?
Edit: Sorry, it is $5 billion for 8 submarines.

ISLAMABAD — Pakistan has finalized its long-negotiated submarine deal with China, with four to be built in China and four in Pakistan. Analysts believe the submarines will go a long way toward maintaining a credible conventional deterrent against India, and also largely secure the sea-based arm of Pakistan's nuclear triad.

Minister for Defence Production Tanveer Hussain announced the news last week while opening a new exhibition center at the Defence Export Promotion Organization.

Construction is to be undertaken simultaneously in both countries, but Hussain did not say when construction would commence or what type had been selected.

Most analysts believe the subs will be the air independent propulsion (AIP) equipped variant of the S-20, which is an export development of China's Type-039A/Type-041 class diesel-electric submarines.

Though Chinese submarine technology is reported to have improved considerably, Tom Waldwyn, research analyst in the Defence and Military Analysis Programme at the International Institute for Strategic Studies, said, "the capabilities of Chinese submarines are not something which can be easily determined as it benefits countries on both sides to keep this a secret.

"The export version of the Type 039A, the S20, is believed to be AIP optional and should the Pakistanis opt for this capability it would give them greater operational flexibility through increased endurance. Other than being AIP optional, it is currently unclear what other differences there would be between a Chinese Navy Type 039A and an export version," he said.

 

[singlefighter]

2018 is interesting time ? Ameer ul momineen will surely include this thing in his achievements

What you hope credit will goes to pti cheif ....what joke these people who even not able to control rats in peshawar ..??

 

[Arsalan]

@waz @Oscar sir plz do the honours here

Please do not quote such posts just report them. OR at least remove the part that you KNOW is meant to be deleted. Now i will have to report yours as well as his content is quoted in your post so we have to remove them both to completely address the problem. I hope you understated!

 

[Penguin]

@Penguin

We know of AIP submarines that have displacement of 1600 tons.

But have you seen such a displacement, when we talk of Nuke subs?

You wont find any.

This was your original statement "The displacement for nuclear propulsion submarine is 3 times that of AIP submarine."
As such, that means any nuclear submarine and any AIP submarine. This simply is not true.
First of all, you really mean SSBN only. SSNs are significantly smaller than SSBNs but still have nuclear propulsion.
Second, whether with or without AIP, the displacement of SSKs varies, from as little as 500-1000 tons to as large as 4000-4500 ton.

 

[mehboobkz]

@Penguin

My response and rational (therein) was framed towards the gentleman @T-Rex who had the following question:

1) Is it impossible to convert AIP subs into nuclear subs?

2) After someone told him "NO" he shot back with the following:

Would you explain the reason please?

Now, based on above conversation, I released my answer to THAT gentleman @T-Rex
Please note that my response was specially crafted for THAT gentleman, towards HIS query.

And this is where you interjected.

Let us assume that I was talking of SSN and not SSBN, which was not the case however.
Let us presume that it IS SSN.

What is the lowest displacement number for "operational" SSNs ?
And what is the lowest displacement number for "operational" AIPs?

Once you have the right numbers. I would not have to post again on this to prove my point. Cause that would be self explanatory for what I meant, when I replied to T-Rex.

The crux of the matter here is, that the nuclear boats are supposed to be bigger than AIP, and this IS the case normally.

 

[T-Rex]

@Penguin

My response and rational (therein) was framed towards the gentleman @T-Rex who had the following question:

1) Is it impossible to convert AIP subs into nuclear subs?

2) After someone told him "NO" he shot back with the following:

Would you explain the reason please?

Now, based on above conversation, I released my answer to THAT gentleman @T-Rex
Please note that my response was specially crafted for THAT gentleman, towards HIS query.

And this is where you interjected.

Let us assume that I was talking of SSN and not SSBN, which was not the case however.
Let us presume that it IS SSN.

What is the lowest displacement number for "operational" SSNs ?
And what is the lowest displacement number for "operational" AIPs?

Once you have the right numbers. I would not have to post again on this to prove my point. Cause that would be self explanatory for what I meant, when I replied to T-Rex.

The crux of the matter here is, that the nuclear boats are supposed to be bigger than AIP, and this IS the case normally.

The Russian Amur class AIP subs start with displacement as low as 700 tons while SSNs start with 5000-6000 tons. Yes, I can see that SSNs are very large vessels compared to the AIP subs. That's why miniaturization of nuclear reactor comes into the scene.