Pakistan will implode if the US does not leave Afghanistan

[graphican]

So after 9/11, when General Musharraf chose to ally with the Americans in the "war on terror", it was a fundamental blunder. Overnight he turned the jihadi groups created to fight foreign occupation from supporters into enemies, people prepared to fight the Pakistani army because of its support for the US invasion.

First things first, Undo this blunder and things will start making sense for Pakistan. No we need no US War on Terror.

 

[PeacefulIndian]

First things first, Undo this blunder and things will start making sense for Pakistan. No we need no US War on Terror.

And what does that entail? Parting with the US & siding with the jihadis?

 

[TruthSeeker]

Pakistan will implode if it doesn't HELP the USA to leave Afghanistan. The USA stays in Afghanistan because Pakistan is sheltering the Taliban in FATA and Baluchistan. So, YES, the USA must leave Afghanistan. The USA WANTS to leave Afghanistan. Pakistan is prolonging its own misery and risking total descent into civil war by its "good" Taliban strategy. Pakistan controls its own fate and is making its own choices.

 

[graphican]

And what does that entail? Parting with the US & siding with the jihadis?

There is a number 50 between 100 and 0. Jihadis are great people if they are really doing Jihad but its unfortunate that terrorists also call themselves as "jihadis" and when they don't, insane media starts calling them that. What you are trying to refer here are probably terrorists. No we don't need no terrorist, let those be American Terrorists or Pakistani Terrorists.

For more info on Jihad, try watching Zakir Niak's lectures on Jihad.

 

[graphican]

Pakistan will implode if it doesn't HELP the USA to leave Afghanistan. The USA stays in Afghanistan because Pakistan is sheltering the Taliban in FATA and Baluchistan. So, YES, the USA must leave Afghanistan. The USA WANTS to leave Afghanistan. Pakistan is prolonging its own misery and risking total descent into civil war by its "good" Taliban strategy. Pakistan controls its own fate and is making its own choices.

Sir TruthSeeker,

We are helpless here. You must understand Ameircans are not trust able Nation for us and we know America doesn't have capacity to stay another decade or 100 years here in Afghanistan. Plus we understand no one can defeat Afghans or Pashtoons as their history says no one defeated them in the past 5500 years neither we have any reasons to confront them. We never had any problems with Afghans before USA had. All this sets our lines clear that Pakistan once had no choice but to align with USA and fight the war against these people... now Pakistan has no chance but not to fight this war, even if USA goes mad compelling.

Remember, survival is the basic instinct of every human and Nation and here our survival is at stake.. Sorry to hurt you but as an ally, we can fight a war together with you but we cannot make a suicide together.

 

[CENTCOM]

Has not terrorism existed long before 9/11? Was it not Al Qaeda, sheltered by the Taliban, who planned from inside Afghanistan their global terrorist activities? Have you forgotten Al-khobar Towers in Saudi Arabia, Nairobi and Kenyan embassy bombings and the USS Cole in Yemen? Were these not planned and orchestrated by Al Qaeda? Have you forgotten that all of these events transpired at a time when the US had strategically disengaged from the region, after the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan ended? When Al Qaeda attacked the US on 9/11 and killed nearly 3000 innocent Americans we acted in self defense to take control away from these ruthless terrorists. We are working closely with the government of Pakistan and the Pakistani military to curb terrorist activities in Pakistan as we are in Afghanistan. Rest assured we will eliminate them before our forces leave the region. And our cooperation and assistance to the governments of Afghanistan and Pakistan will endure long after that. We will not turn our backs again.

Afghanistan under Taliban regime was a failed state where lawlessness and ruthless killing was a daily occurrence. Girls were deprived of education. Women were banned from venturing out of their homes even to buy daily groceries. If left unchecked do you not think it would not have spread to Pakistan as well?

We can be after the match cricket commentators and say who did wrong and who did right in supporting the US, but the fact remains that ruthless Taliban had their eyes on Pakistan and if not stopped would have imposed their rule of terror on Pakistan as well. Did we not recently see that in Swat region where Taliban got a chance to rule? Did we not see what they did to the beautiful Swat Valley? We will leave the region soon but before we go we will make sure along with our Pakistani & Afghan partners that the world is free of Taliban & Al Qaeda terror.

LCDR Bill Speaks
DET- United States Central Command
CENTCOM

 

[Last Hope]

Has not terrorism existed long before 9/11? Was it not Al Qaeda, sheltered by the Taliban, who planned from inside Afghanistan their global terrorist activities? Have you forgotten Al-khobar Towers in Saudi Arabia, Nairobi and Kenyan embassy bombings and the USS Cole in Yemen? Were these not planned and orchestrated by Al Qaeda? Have you forgotten that all of these events transpired at a time when the US had strategically disengaged from the region, after the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan ended? When Al Qaeda attacked the US on 9/11 and killed nearly 3000 innocent Americans we acted in self defense to take control away from these ruthless terrorists. We are working closely with the government of Pakistan and the Pakistani military to curb terrorist activities in Pakistan as we are in Afghanistan. Rest assured we will eliminate them before our forces leave the region. And our cooperation and assistance to the governments of Afghanistan and Pakistan will endure long after that. We will not turn our backs again.

Afghanistan under Taliban regime was a failed state where lawlessness and ruthless killing was a daily occurrence. Girls were deprived of education. Women were banned from venturing out of their homes even to buy daily groceries. If left unchecked do you not think it would not have spread to Pakistan as well?

We can be after the match cricket commentators and say who did wrong and who did right in supporting the US, but the fact remains that ruthless Taliban had their eyes on Pakistan and if not stopped would have imposed their rule of terror on Pakistan as well. Did we not recently see that in Swat region where Taliban got a chance to rule? Did we not see what they did to the beautiful Swat Valley? We will leave the region soon but before we go we will make sure along with our Pakistani & Afghan partners that the world is free of Taliban & Al Qaeda terror.

LCDR Bill Speaks
DET- United States Central Command
CENTCOM

No we haven't. I would be glad if the US Forces really were fighting the terrorists than sending Afghans to stone age.

 

[Parashuram1]

In regard to the first post where the writer mentions that the entire society of liberals has been silenced, there has been another article posted on this very forum that shows something quite different. It mentions that the liberals are now motivated to be more aggressive against radicals after Mr. Taseer was assassinated a few days back.

From having read both these articles, I can only say one thing:

The glass seems half empty or half full.

 

[Solomon2]

No we haven't. I would be glad if the US Forces really were fighting the terrorists than sending Afghans to stone age.

Answer here.

 

[rubyjackass]

America has targeted the taliban since 2001 in Afghanistan. What has that achieved? Only more expansion and more terrorism. If America did not invade the cursed nation of Afghanistan in the first place there would be no terrorism at such a high scale. It's better to stop wasting money and leave Afghanistan for ever.

Afghan invasion is the only reason Al Qaeda has no breathing space now to launch attacks on American targets. There is no doubt about it. But now the extremism has risen as expected because of the backlash. Iraq's invasion is the main culprit here IMO.

About Imran's article, he seems to have come around for his country. He at least talks sense now. But while his plans for Pakistan may be viable what he is hinting is that he doesn't mind if Afghanistan goes down the Taliban toilet which seems to be your opinion too. Or may be you overlooked it, I don't know.

Bottomline: If the message is to make US withdraw with a gun to your head, it won't have many buyers.

 

[Mercenary]

What are Imran Khan's options of stopping Taliban from hosting Al Qaeda terrorists?

He blabs a lot of how WOT has destablized Pakistan. But he forgets, why American came there in the first place. It was brutally attacked by terrorists based from Afghanistan and Pakistan nurtured the Taliban which allowed the Al Qaeda terrorists.

I think Imran Khan is blaming the wrong people. It is Pakistan who created this Frankeinstein monster to wage Jihad in India and Afghanistan and when these guys got kicked out of both places, they decided to turn their guns on their Pakistani hosts.

If Imran Khan is a such student of history, he would know after the Vietnam War, China and Vietnam went to war in which 100,000 people died. or After World War II, Russia and USA who were allies, became adversaries or even in atiquity, Athens and Sparta combined forces to defeat the Persians and once defeated, they became enemies.

It happens all the time.

The daily bombings and attacks are a direct result of Pakistan nurturing a policy of Jihad and now the chickens have come home to roost.

 

[Meengla]

Mercenary,
Your post is full of facts. I would also like to clarify that Pakistan was ruled by a brutal military dictator General Zia ul Haq when all these policies were enacted. Its been the myopic military-mullah alliance for a long time. In fact, EVEN NOW, the President of Pakistan cannot probably go beyond the reception desk in Pakistan's nuclear facilities. It has been the military all along since 1977 except for, may be, a little bit of resistance by Nawaz Sharif when he was the PM.
I really think that the blame for the mess needs to be clarified. Had Pakistan been ruled by elected leaders from 1979 to 1989 then, yes, the entire Pakistani society could be blamed. But that was not so. Instead, what we had was a ruthless military dictator who not only countered the Soviets the way he did but he thought it prudent to reshape Pakistan's society as well. Did you know that he flogged and hanged people in public? Did you know that he even banned Urdu feature movies in Pakistan Television because they were, to him, 'Fahash' (obscene)? The list of brutality and micromanagement is long.

So lets' establish some perspective before we blame the entire nation. One can say that all this is water under the bridge. Perhaps.

Still it is important to remember that so long as Americans are in Afghanistan, so long as Pakistani govt. is a recipient of American aid, these fanatics will be very hard to counter. It is more and more bloodshed inside Pakistan. What would be prudent is that Americans leave Afghanistan, cut off all aid to Pakistan, expect and require Pakistani establishment to destroy these fanatics. Establish strict policing of people travelling from Pakistan to other countries to lesseb chances of international terrorism--it is probably getting that way anyway. In time, when no longer seen as 'puppet', the Pakistani establishment can crush these fanatics.

 

[Developereo]

The daily bombings and attacks are a direct result of Pakistan nurturing a policy of Jihad and now the chickens have come home to roost.

Thankfully, Imran Khan is a lot more mature about this.

As Meengla said, it really doesn't matter at this point who nurtured these chickens. The point is how to deal with the situation now.

Broadly speaking, there are three options on the table:
1) kill them all
2) kill the lost causes, and re-educate the rest
3) negotiate with them

America only seems interested in option 1). As the bravado evaporates and reality sinks in, they seem willing to consider option 3).

Imran wants to focus on options 2) and 3). Since many of these people are our own citizens, some radicalized by the war itself, we are less cavalier than NATO about cluster bombing them all and letting God sort them out.

 

[Hutchroy]

Mercenary,
Still it is important to remember that so long as Americans are in Afghanistan, so long as Pakistani govt. is a recipient of American aid, these fanatics will be very hard to counter. It is more and more bloodshed inside Pakistan. What would be prudent is that Americans leave Afghanistan,cut off all aid to Pakistan, expect and require Pakistani establishment to destroy these fanatics. Establish strict policing of people travelling from Pakistan to other countries to lesseb chances of international terrorism--it is probably getting that way anyway. In time, when no longer seen as 'puppet', the Pakistani establishment can crush these fanatics.

Sir,

Do you think that Pakistan will survive without US Financial and Material Aid on the basis of the present precarious Economic situation prevailing in Pakistan?

 

[Parashuram1]

Very well said. I have been trying to research more on Pakistan's current situation through various journals and see the same reason behind the present disarray and chaos in your society. The simple reason that the fruits of radicalism have blossomed because one of the farmers (your ruler) had once sowed the seeds for the same. I have said this earlier to some senior members who still consider Afghanistan's Taliban as legitimate that the reason why their country is in a heap is because of not United States and NATO but because the then rulers of Pakistan decided to get embroiled in a conflict that was limited between two superpowers of that time.

When a country that has no economic or political stand except for being one of the many allies of one superpower, it is best advised for such a country to keep military matters within its limited dimensions and against countries that are of its own caliber and capability. The entire meddling of Soviet Union's war was the biggest disaster in your history that is the cause of present situation.

The best option was to forcefully put the border fences back then in the 1980s itself so as to prevent the flood of refugees and refuse to participate in the big picture. This is exactly what your arch-nemesis the Indians did; despite being close to the Soviet Union, they refused to militarily intervene for Moscow's sake by knowing their limitations in a confrontation between two superpowers.

I have been given the argument that Afghanistan borders Pakistan and hence Pakistan got involved. As I said, keep strong border control and pressing the United Nations to intervene to keep your borders impenetrable during the whole war could have kept your country from radicalizing and Pakistan could have been on the road to development today.

Broadly speaking, there are three options on the table:
1) kill them all
2) kill the lost causes, and re-educate the rest
3) negotiate with them

Referring to you 3 options sir, I do not think the 3rd option is viable at all. Negotiations have been attempted in the past and you know it very well. United States did not gun run the next day of 9/11 but warned Taliban to simply hand over the suspects. Despite repeated warnings issued, Taliban refused and hence caused the war. If indeed NATO wanted to annihilate the country to oblivion, it could have continued aerial raids with their huge bombers and fighter aircraft fleet, flattening everything in their sight and not put a single soldier on the ground.

Of this, I can say that second option is the most viable and should be done in conjunction with NATO forces by Pakistani military. But your reluctance to handle Afghan Taliban mystifies me. You must begin to accept that negotiation with terrorists (including those who give them refuge and Taliban just did that) is just not an option.