Pakistan, US agree on new Afghan set-up - India retreating?

[Vassnti]

“Karzai is fast becoming a seat-warmer for Mustafa Zahir Shah,”

A deal based on the ability of one man to bring the warring factions together, there are going to be people left out in the cold, people that feel they did not get what they "deserved"

Obviously many people have been and are working to make this a reality but i wonder if it is a short term solution.

U.S gets to leave, Pakistan gets much of what it wants and Afghanistan is left dangling one car bomb from civil war.

 

[Gazzi]

It is becoming rather tiresome hearing Indians on this thread and forum playing saint about Afghanistan "oh let them live in peace, and how Pakistan is interfering and doesn't want a stable Afghanistan".

I mean WTF.........it is India, who hand in hand with the Russians, armed the Northern Alliance (was that not interference, or was it because it was in India's benefit) and it was India and is now, by Pakistan's view training, arming and financing terrorists to attack Pakistan using Afghanistan......

India is no saint, just a colourful picture being painted for itself, wolf in sheeps clothing.........so please let that rhetoric rest

 

[Ahmad]

I ve been laughing on it for last 15 mins

Mullah Bradar is a moderate Taliban

You havent seen what the taliban really is with your own eyes, it is difficult to describe these special creatures by word. Considering Mullah Dadullah, Turabi and others, he might be moderate.

 

[Ahmad]

The Afghan people who get a Talibani govt they dont want

It is not gona happen, people have lost their lives, homes, kids and everything in fight against the taliban(before the americans came to afghanistan), they wont let it happen.

Secondly, India might play a smart role here by announcing all these things, who knows? for just 2 reasons which came to my mind:

1-To make pakistan look bad as supporter of violence and terrorists.
2-To make india look good by announcing that they are building the infrastructure in Afghanistan, but the others dont want them to deliver this. Bear in mind that india have a good image in Afghanistan and the projects they have undertaken in differnt parts of Afghanistan is very visible to the general public, such as a new Agriculture University in Kabul, Parliament building, Road constructions, water/electricity dam in the west and alot more.

 

[Ahmad]

I mean WTF.........it is India, who hand in hand with the Russians, armed the Northern Alliance

You guys make me laugh each time you mention NA. First of all this name is totally wrong, secondly it was Pakistan who first created the so called NA, and now you complain about them.

 

[Gazzi]

You guys make me laugh each time you mention NA. First of all this name is totally wrong, secondly it was Pakistan who first created the so called NA, and now you complain about them.

Whether Pakistan created them (with the US) or not is not the point I am making........point being, India too has played a big role in the conflict in Afghanistan, blaming Pakistan is not the correct position to take....

and you can;t talk much either sitting in the comfort of your armchair in the UK

 

[Ahmad]

Whether Pakistan created them (with the US) or not is not the point I am making........point being, India too has played a big role in the conflict in Afghanistan, blaming Pakistan is not the correct position to take....

and you can;t talk much either sitting in the comfort of your armchair in the UK

And how about angel and innocent pakistan? among the regional players, nobody has had a much bigger role in proxy war of afghanistan compare to pakistan.

dont you think it is childish when you taunt me about where I live? i ,like any other afghan have left my country because of decades of proxy wars which was not our war but was imposed on us. i have seen alot of bad days in my life time that you probably havent seen 1/100th of it. If my country was like pakistan, i would never have left it for the UK as you are doing.

 

[ajpirzada]

^^dont simply blame pakistan for each of your problem. today you would have been under soviet occupation if pakistan wouldnt have entered the fight and brought US in. unless you wish soviets to return, i dont mind. after soviets withdrew all your warlords started fighting for power and created civil war lik situation. and dont forget taliban didnt simply take a bus to kabul rather they had the public (which was sick of chaos) support back then. all we wanted was a less chaotic afghanistan so that we could forget about our western border and those more than 5 million of refugees, whom we greeted with everything only to hear complains after few years, could go back to their homeland.

and yes you can see indian schools and colleges but sorry to see you are blind to all the development work carried out by pakistan (total of $500 million) despite us facing economic crunch. please see: http://www.defence.pk/forums/strate...-investment-afghanistan-hits-500-million.html

your problem lies within you. if your warlords stop fighting may be there will be less room for outsiders to intervene

 

[Ahmad]

^^dont simply blame pakistan for each of your problem. today you would have been under soviet occupation if pakistan wouldnt have entered the fight and brought US in. unless you wish soviets to return, i dont mind. after soviets withdrew all your warlords started fighting for power and created civil war lik situation. and dont forget taliban didnt simply take a bus to kabul rather they had the public (which was sick of chaos) support back then. all we wanted was a less chaotic afghanistan so that we could forget about our western border and those more than 5 million of refugees, whom we greeted with everything only to hear complains after few years, could go back to their homeland.

and yes you can see indian schools and colleges but sorry to see you are blind to all the development work carried out by pakistan (total of $500 million) despite us facing economic crunch. see: http://www.defence.pk/forums/strate...-investment-afghanistan-hits-500-million.html

your problem lies within you. if your warlords stop fighting may be there will be less room of outsiders to intervene

Nope, i am not blaming everything on Pakistan, did you actually read my post? i said pakistan had the bigger role, i didnt say pakisan was the only one! what do you think afghanistan would stand a chance while there were powerful hostile nations who were determined to win against each other and had made afghanistan their battlefield? the soviets(and their satelite states and backers like india etc), americans and paksitan. to us it doesnt make any difference, you are all the same to us. and please dont taunt us about the soviets, pakistan steped in to save itself not to help us. if the soviets had taken afghanistan, their next step would have been pakistan. wish we were under the soviets rather than dying and our country being destroyed and alot of people killed. we have been under direct and indirect occupation for the last 30 years anyways, it never made any difference. you are talking about the warlords, dont forget that it was pakisan who created 7 groups of warlords, the taliban itself are the biggest drug and warlord in the country. You tell me that the problem lies within me, but have you every looked at yourself? why do you blame every single thing happens in your country on the others? even if a chicken's leg is broken you blame it on somebody else.

 

[ajpirzada]

i cant convince you if pakistan helped afghanistan or helped itself or both. its similar to saying that my brother helped me to help himself. depends how you see it. all i know is that pakistan is the only country which has suffered most from the situation in afghanistan and has also shared the most burden (i wont call it help now that i know how you see us). and taking afghanistan back to soviet era is not possible or else i must have rubbed my Jini lamp.

And so far we did not support NA for a logical reason. afghanistan was always used to fuel separatist movement in balochistan when under the rule of NA. if that wouldnt have happened may be we wouldnt have cared about which gov was ruling afghanistan.

about creating warlords... well i see it as we helping afghans to fight soviets. now if they later turned against their own people what can i say. may be we were too short sighted. or we didnt have money to build your schools and colleges which got destroyed during war. and it wasnt just your country, its ours as well which has gone down the drain due to extremism and drugs and gun culture and smuggling and many other problems.

and we blame our gov more than we blame others. open any television channel and see how much our gov hates media.

hate us as much as you want, but i will not let anyone simply get away with praising india and cursing pakistan when it comes to afghanistan.

 

[Speaker]

^^dont simply blame pakistan for each of your problem. today you would have been under soviet occupation if pakistan wouldnt have entered the fight and brought US in. unless you wish soviets to return, i dont mind. after soviets withdrew all your warlords started fighting for power and created civil war lik situation. and dont forget taliban didnt simply take a bus to kabul rather they had the public (which was sick of chaos) support back then. all we wanted was a less chaotic afghanistan so that we could forget about our western border and those more than 5 million of refugees, whom we greeted with everything only to hear complains after few years, could go back to their homeland.

and yes you can see indian schools and colleges but sorry to see you are blind to all the development work carried out by pakistan (total of $500 million) despite us facing economic crunch. please see: http://www.defence.pk/forums/strate...-investment-afghanistan-hits-500-million.html

your problem lies within you. if your warlords stop fighting may be there will be less room of outsiders to intervene

I am not sure it is accurate to call it the Soviet invasion. It was the soviet policy of upholding communism is any country that wishes to do so. They were intent on sending troops to East Germany as well when the Berlin Wall was going to be pulled down. That did not succeed and it signaled the beginning of the end of USSR. It has nothing to do with occupying Afghanistan. It was just to set a world order. The US is doing the same thing, except it tries to uphold democracy in every country. That is one of the many excuses they used to invade Iraq. In my opinion, both ideologies are imperialistic and mutually detrimental to the victor and the vanquished.

That said, you are overstating Pakistan's role. With due respects, it was not Pakistan who stood up to the soviets and involved US. It was US who responded cold-war style, and used Pakistan to train the Mujahideen. US and KSA were the biggest supporters of these groups (ironical in today's context) followed by many Muslim countries and China. Pakistan was just one of them. Of course when the US left, they outsourced the training of the Mujahideen to Pakistan and the effects of that are seen even today. It is that act that you call betrayal of the US. But your rulers never told you it was simply the occupational hazards of performing the outsourced work. All in all, Soviet's indiscretion, America's bully attitude and Bhutto's short-term-anti-India vision has resulted in widespread suffering of innocents in Afghanistan, Pakistan and the general region.

 

[ajpirzada]

soviet policy or soviet invasion, for me its the same.

and no its the other way round. US entered the arena after 2 or 3 years. rather they were reluctant initially and only came once they noticed some possibility.
and as far as bhutto's anti india stance, please dont drag it in. wat do you expect after 1971? kisses?

and about overstating pakistan's role, please prove me wrong with some logic and not with a simple declaration

 

[gubbi]

No advisory was issued to Indians in Afghanistan, says Ministry

NEW DELHI: India on Wednesday asserted that its commitment to development partnership with Afghanistan remained undiluted and refuted reports that it planned to scale-down its presence in that country.

External Affairs Ministry spokesman Vishnu Prakash dismissed reports that New Delhi was issuing an advisory to its citizens in Afghanistan to return home, saying such reports were baseless and factually incorrect.

“India's commitment to its development partnership with Afghanistan remains undiluted,” he said.

India was extending humanitarian and development aid worth $1.3 billion and there were about 3,500 Indians working in Afghanistan on projects, including infrastructure, education, and construction of buildings such as the Parliament building in Kabul.

Of them, almost 2,500 were in secure zones and the government had taken up the issue of security for the rest.

At the same time, it had advised those working in the private sector to alter the pattern of movement and consider plans to train Afghan nationals in India, who in turn, train other personnel for deployment in projects there.

Medical missions

After the February 26 terror attack in Kabul, which claimed the lives of nine people, including three Army officers, India announced temporary suspension of its medical mission in the Afghanistan capital. Four others in Kandahar, Jalalabad, Mazar-e-Sharif and Herat continue to function.

India's commitment to stay the course in Afghanistan was reiterated during the visit of National Security Adviser Shiv Shankar Menon to Kabul last weekend.

On his part, Afghanistan President Hamid Karzai assured all assistance and security to Indian nationals.

India wary but won't scale down Afghanistan ops - yeah I know, its ToI, but still relevant.

Afghan security jitters

New Delhi, March 10: The home ministry came close to issuing an advisory asking the 4,000 Indians working for private agencies in Afghanistan to exercise “extra caution”, but the move was nixed over fears it would send a wrong signal.

The plan was apparently prompted by indications from a team of Intelligence Bureau officials led by national security adviser Shiv Shankar Menon that the group of 4,000 — not covered by Indian government’s security — faces the greatest risk. Menon had visited Kabul after the February 26 terror strike there in which seven Indians died. The terrorists had targeted guesthouses frequented by Indians.

Objections to the planned advisory appeared to have come from the external affairs ministry, whose spokesperson today denied reports of such an alert and plans to scale down India’s presence. “India’s commitment to its development partnership with Afghanistan remains undiluted,” he said.

Home ministry officials said, however, the planned advisory would not, in any case, have asked Indians to return.

Hmmn, so all this brouhaha was over nothing.
India aint getting out of Afghanistan, and the initial reports were speculation and rumors. So.....

 

[Trisonics]

Calm down guys, Its not official yet and champaign is already out. Just relax and wait for the game to unfold. Let us see what Indian media implies by scaling down and what is that the GoI will do. We are getting contradictory signals and the official stance of India is not clear.

Lets not get ahead of ourselves and speculate. India may well pack its bags and quit but you never know ...

New Delhi, March 10, 2010

India today denied reports that it was planning to scale down its presence in Afghanistan in the aftermath of the February 26 terrorist attacks in Kabul in which seven Indians and ten others were killed.

Responding to queries on the reports, which also said India was advising its citizens in the strife-torn country to return home, the official spokesperson of the Ministry of External Affairs categorically dismissed them as "baseless and factually incorrect".

"India's commitment to its development partnership with Afghanistan remains diluted," the spokesperson said.

Last week, India announced it had temporarily suspended the Indian Medical Mission (IMM) in Kabul after the attack which had targeted the IMM.

At that time, too, the Government had made it clear that it would not scale down its other operations in Afghanistan despite the extremely difficult situation in the country.

The Indians killed in the suicide and car bomb attacks included a doctor in the IMM, Kabul.

The IMMs in Herat, Kandahar, Jalalabad and Mazhar-e-Sharif are functioning normally.

Similarly, the Embassy of India in Kabul and its other offices in Afghanistan also continue to function normally.

National Security Adviser Shivshankar Menon had visited Kabul last week to review the security for Indians and Indian facilities in Afghanistan after the latest attack. He had held talks with Afghan President Hamid Karzai and other leaders and also visited the scene of the attack - two guest houses popular with Indians and other foreigners.
India says no plan to scale down presence in Afghanistan | NetIndian | India News | Latest News from India | Breaking News from India | Latest Headlines


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The Hindu : Front Page : No advisory issued to Indians in Afghanistan, says Ministry


India on Wednesday asserted that its commitment to development partnership with Afghanistan remained undiluted and refuted reports that it planned to scale-down its presence in that country.

External Affairs Ministry spokesman Vishnu Prakash dismissed reports that New Delhi was issuing an advisory to its citizens in Afghanistan to return home, saying such reports were baseless and factually incorrect.

“India's commitment to its development partnership with Afghanistan remains undiluted,” he said.

India was extending humanitarian and development aid worth $1.3 billion and there were about 3,500 Indians working in Afghanistan on projects, including infrastructure, education, and construction of buildings such as the Parliament building in Kabul.

Of them, almost 2,500 were in secure zones and the government had taken up the issue of security for the rest.

At the same time, it had advised those working in the private sector to alter the pattern of movement and consider plans to train Afghan nationals in India, who in turn, train other personnel for deployment in projects there.

Medical missions

After the February 26 terror attack in Kabul, which claimed the lives of nine people, including three Army officers, India announced temporary suspension of its medical mission in the Afghanistan capital. Four others in Kandahar, Jalalabad, Mazar-e-Sharif and Herat continue to function.

India's commitment to stay the course in Afghanistan was reiterated during the visit of National Security Adviser Shiv Shankar Menon to Kabul last weekend.

On his part, Afghanistan President Hamid Karzai assured all assistance and security to Indian nationals.

 

[Trisonics]

Gubbi nice timing!!!

Gubbi = sparrow??