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Pakistan - Turkey (PAC-TAI) Collaboration for NGFA-TFX 5th Gen Aircraft l Updates, News & Discussion

There are lots of TAI MMU / TFX related threads in PDF.

Similarly many TFX - AZM related threads in PDF.

It would be good if some mod spare some time to combine relevant threads 😇
 

TURKEY REVEALS PROTOTYPE OF ITS MMU/TFX NEXT-GEN FIGHTER​


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In November, Turkish Aerospace Industries (TAI) revealed the first prototype of its next-generation fighter (NGFA), the MMU (Milli Muharip Ucak). The unit is currently undergoing final assembly as TAI’s production facility. TAI is working to complete the prototype by 2023 and, in turn, fly the aircraft by 2026.

Turkey began planning for a homegrown NGFA in 2010 with the aim of gradually replacing its workhorse multirole fighter, the F-16C/D. Turkey had called on several OEMs for assistance in developing the fighter, and it got responses from Sweden’s Saab and Britain’s BAE Systems.

In 2017, TAI signed an agreement with BAE Systems. Under the £100 million-plus deal, the latter provided design and development assistance to TAI. However, this was a transactional agreement with BAE selling services to TAI. Ultimately, Turkey was aiming to indigenize the TFX’s critical inputs and, following its exit from the F-35 Lightning II program, build a turnkey industry for the TFX domestically…

Another major aspect of the MMU is Turkey’s ongoing push to invite other countries, such as Pakistan, to collaborate in the program. Turkey’s probable motivations for inviting foreign partners likely centered on driving economies-of-scale and, potentially, driving cost savings by pooling resources.

However, for some countries – notably Pakistan – the MMU’s reliance on ITAR inputs (like the engine) was a major barrier to entering the program. This was understandable given the turbulent nature of Pakistan’s ties with the United States, which has shown a willingness to block third-party transfers of engines.

But with Turkey actively moving to develop largely – if not completely – indigenous MMU, this perception (of ITAR risk) may change. In fact, the wider Turkish aerospace industry is starting to make major inroads in Pakistan, especially in the area of drones. Thus, as the Turkish industry demonstrates more control over the TFX/MMU’s critical inputs, it could start attracting partners.

Turkey’s defence industry – across both state-owned and private-sector players – is making progress on the major core inputs of the TFX/MMU, such as:

Indigenous Turbofan Engines​

TAI will power the first MMU prototype(s) with the General Electric (GE) F110 turbofan engine. This is the same powerplant used onboard the Turkish Air Force’s F-16s. In fact, the Turkish defence industry built a significant level of infrastructure to support and, to some extent, even produce the F110. Thus, extending its use to the MMU made sense from an economical standpoint as it re-leverages an existing overhead.

However, Turkey is working to equip the MMU with indigenously developed turbofan engines. The central player of these plans seems to be TR Motor, a branch of TAI (which had taken over the entity from BMC, a local private sector giant). TAI/TR Motor is trying to locally develop every critical piece of the turbofan engines, including the difficult components, such as the turbine and crystal blades…

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Sensors and Avionics​

Aselsan and Havelsan are taking the lead roles in developing the MMU’s radar, electro-optical (EO) sensor, human-machine interfaces (HMI), and onboard electronics countermeasures (ECM) systems…

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Air-to-Air and Air-to-Surface Munitions​

Turkey also has a growing roster of indigenously developed air-to-air missiles (AAM) and advanced air-to-surface munitions, like anti-ship cruising missiles (ASCM), air-launched cruise missiles (ALCM), stand-off weapons (SOW), and precision-guided bombs (PGB)…

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The Growth of Aerospace Infrastructure for the MMU​

The MMU will reportedly have upwards of 20,000 individual components. Not only that, but the General Manager of TAI, Dr. Temel Kotil, expects that as many as 6,000 engineers could be working on the project…

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will power the first MMU prototype(s) with the General Electric (GE) F110 turbofan engine. This is the same powerplant used onboard the Turkish Air Force’s F-16s.
The central player of these plans seems to be TR Motor, a branch of TAI (which had taken over the entity from BMC, a local private sector giant). TAI/TR Motor is trying to locally develop every critical piece of the turbofan engines, including the difficult components, such as the turbine and crystal blades…

I doubt Turkey will be able to design their own powerplant, unless until they partner with GE and US will not give the turbine tech to Turkey.
 
I doubt Turkey will be able to design their own powerplant, unless until they partner with GE and US will not give the turbine tech to Turkey.

They have already belted out an un-manned 5th gen fighter via Baykatar company
 
They have already belted out an un-manned 5th gen fighter via Baykatar company

There is a difference between a UAV and a medium weight multirole stealth fighter.

Coming to their TFx stealth fighter, they have failed in developing the turbine engine and now using GE F110 for their TF-X program.
 
They are lucky. They are supposed to buy 100 F35. That money is huge, better use the money to improve their own local industry
Yes improving local industry is always better
We too moved out of SU57 program to work on AMCA (our own 5th gen fighter)
But could've inducted them in limited quantities, Turkey is a part of NATO, similar equipment might've helped to co-ordinate better. Also F35 is the best 5th gen fighter available right now, this local variant will take a while to enter service in enough numbers.
 
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Yes improving local industry is always better
We too moved out of SU57 program to work on AMCA (our own 5th gen fighter)
But could've inducted them in limited quantities, Turkey is a part of NATO, similar equipment might've helped to co-ordinate better.

As far as I remember both India and Turkey dont have confident to build its own next generation fighter. Basically it is KFX/IFX program that inspires them both

I still remember when Indonesia has already been working with Korea in KFX/IFX program, India is still with SU57 program that is called as NFGA something
 
As far as I remember both India and Turkey dont have confident to build its own next generation fighter. Basically it is KFX/IFX program that inspires them both

I still remember when Indonesia has already been working with Korea in KFX/IFX program, India is still with SU57 program that is called as NFGA something
NFGA? i don't think we are a part of any SU57 program again.
Back in 2018 or 2019 the ministry outright said they won't buy the fighters for the reasons they gave back then.
The statement at the end said there might be a possibility where the Indian govt might look at SU57 again if it meets with Indian criterias but considering current scenario and how Russia is adversely affected the war the joint production chances is essentially nill also current govt is more interested in domestic made stuff.
 
NFGA? i don't think we are a part of any SU57 program again.
Back in 2018 or 2019 the ministry outright said they won't buy the fighters for the reasons they gave back then.
The statement at the end said there might be a possibility where the Indian govt might look at SU57 again if it meets with Indian criterias but considering current scenario and how Russia is adversely affected the war the joint production chances is essentially nill.

KFX/IFX technology development phase started in 2011, in that year India is still with Russia NFGA program. I dont recall there is plan by India to build AMCA during that period.

Basically I follow KFX/IFX news since its very early state, in 2009 when I read in newspaper that Korean delegation come to Indonesia to ask Indonesia to join the program.

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RI sending KFX jet-fighter production team to South Korea

Senin, 11 Juli 2011 18:22 WIB | 5.150 Views


Jakarta (ANTARA News) - Indonesia is sending a KFX warplane production engineering team to South Korea as part of a cooperation agreement between the two nations to produce jet-fighters, a defense ministry official said here on Monday.

The team is composed of personnel from the Indonesian Air Force, Bandung-based Institute of Technology (ITB) and Indonesian aircraft maker PT Dirgantara Indonesia (DI).

Defense Ministry Secretary General Rear Marshal Erris Heriyanto said the team received an award from Defense Minister Purnomo Yusgiantoro here on Monday.

Erris said that Indonesia and South Korea had agreed to cooperate in the production of KFX warplanes in Seoul, South Korea, on July 15, 2010.

Virtually, the KFX jet-fighter production project is an old project by the Republic of Korea Air Force (ROKAF) which only now could it be realized.

The idea of the project came from South Korean President Kim Dae Jung on March 2001 to replace older planes like F-4D/E Phantom II and F-5E/F Tiger.

Compared with F-16, KFX is projected to have an attack radius 50 percent higher, better avionic system and better anti radar (stealth) capability.

Erris said that Indonesia tried to do its best to meet its need for main weaponry system, including in the development of warplanes.

Therefore, Indonesia agreed to cooperate with South Korea, he added.

On the occasion, the two sides agreed that 80 percent of the funding would borne by partner country while the remaining 20 percent by Indonesia.

He said that the cooperation for the development of the 4.5 generation warplanes would be carried out in three stages, namely technological development in the 2011-2012 period, engineering and manufacturing and the third stage is the production phase.

Erris said that both sides agreed to produce some 150 to 200 units of KFX of which Indonesia would get 50 units.

"The three units would meet the need of three combat air-borne squadrons," he said.
(Uu.A014/HAJM)

RI sending KFX jet-fighter production team to South Korea - ANTARA News
 
KFX/IFX technology development phase started in 2011, in that year India is still with Russia NFGA program. I dont recall there is plan by India to build AMCA during that period.

Basically I follow KFX/IFX news since its very early state, in 2009 when I read in newspaper that Korean delegation come to Indonesia to ask Indonesia to join the program.
Oh you meant at that time
Afaik AMCA was started in 2013.
Anyways for the Indian program i hope "it's grounded" as in Indian programs are too ambitious at times for their own good this leads to slowdowns, increasing costs to include latest stuff according to requirements of IAF.
Tejas is a good 4++ gen fighter as a country's 1st local made fighter but came very late, it's meant to replace Mig 21 and mirage after all.
 
There is a difference between a UAV and a medium weight multirole stealth fighter.

Coming to their TFx stealth fighter, they have failed in developing the turbine engine and now using GE F110 for their TF-X program.

It will be up an running soon.. Just like how some less informed naysayers were saying the UAV won't see the light of day but it is already here now.. By the way it is indeed a 5th gen unmanned fighter

Yes improving local industry is always better
We too moved out of SU57 program to work on AMCA (our own 5th gen fighter)
But could've inducted them in limited quantities, Turkey is a part of NATO, similar equipment might've helped to co-ordinate better. Also F35 is the best 5th gen fighter available right now, this local variant will take a while to enter service in enough numbers.

The one Turkey is building is superior to F35 which is proven to be lacking
 
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