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Pakistan to US: Don't cross the 'red lines'

Can certainly vouch for the first statement... This is actually a reality that only those can deny who are ignorant about the way things are going in the world...
Brother,

No one will come to aid of Pakistan.

Where were our allies when Pakistan fought wars with India and got split in to two?

And you expect our allies to help us defend against forces of the most powerful nation on Earth? Do they have the balls to do that?

Have a look at the case of Iraq:

When the powerful US military forces were being deployed on the borders of Iraq during 2003; other nations were only watching. When the Shock and Awe commenced and slaughter of Iraqi people began; other nations were still only watching.

Sorry brother! You are expecting too much from this world dominated by strategic interests rather than brotherhood. Skeptics are right.

As for China... depends... We could have a treaty with the Chinese if they are willing to help us in military tech... We wont be forming a Union with them however...
I believe that member Parashuram1 have given a reasonable snapshot in this regard. As is the case with several nations, China also has issues of its own to deal with.
 
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Brother,

No one will come to aid of Pakistan.

Where were our allies when Pakistan fought wars with India and got split in to two?

And you expect our allies to help us defend against forces of the most powerful nation on Earth? Do they have the balls to do that?

Have a look at the case of Iraq:

When the powerful US military forces were being deployed on the borders of Iraq during 2003; other nations were only watching. When the Shock and Awe commenced and slaughter of Iraqi people began; other nations were still only watching.

Sorry brother! You are expecting too much from this world dominated by strategic interests rather than brotherhood. Skeptics are right.

I believe that member Parashuram1 have given a reasonable snapshot in this regard. As is the case with several nations, China also has issues of its own to deal with.

Dear Legend... I dont know if I ever told you this before... but you do brilliant thinking except that it is always WITHIN the box...

Yaar do you really think I ll put my trust in these evil governments, most of them would refuse me a visa/possibly try to jail me/torture me and kill me if they knew who I am and what I stand for??

The idea is not to work within the structure that you see presently... We want to take over and take out these fake leaders as well as this corrupt system once and for all... Read carefully what I am saying... No one is counting on the balls of our "allies"... They are probably going to pass away in their sleep and wont even realize what hit them when it happens... :)

Secondly no one wants war if thats what you think... But in case one is imposed on us obviously we will retaliate... with whatever we got...

Thirdly China has been the most reliable partner for Pakistan... I m not talking about the Peoples Army coming down into Pakistan to help us... I dont know where this Parashuram got this idea from... dont pay attention to him anyway... He speaks with half knowledge about what is being talked about... You can surely look at what I wrote and then tell me if a treaty for co operation in military tech with China is such an impossibility??

Hell we even have plans to get certain sections of America and Russia on our side, Chinese would not be so hard to convince of our friendly intentions...

Now lets get back to the topic... It went a little off the tangent there...
 
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Dear Legend... I dont know if I ever told you this before... but you do brilliant thinking except that it is always WITHIN the box...

Yaar do you really think I ll put my trust in these evil governments, most of them would refuse me a visa/possibly try to jail me/torture me and kill me if they knew who I am and what I stand for??

The idea is not to work within the structure that you see presently... We want to take over and take out these fake leaders as well as this corrupt system once and for all... Read carefully what I am saying... No one is counting on the balls of our "allies"... They are probably going to pass away in their sleep and wont even realize what hit them when it happens... :)

Secondly no one wants war if thats what you think... But in case one is imposed on us obviously we will retaliate... with whatever we got...

Thirdly China has been the most reliable partner for Pakistan... I m not talking about the Peoples Army coming down into Pakistan to help us... I dont know where this Parashuram got this idea from... dont pay attention to him anyway... He speaks with half knowledge about what is being talked about... You can surely look at what I wrote and then tell me if a treaty for co operation in military tech with China is such an impossibility??

Hell we even have plans to get certain sections of America and Russia on our side, Chinese would not be so hard to convince of our friendly intentions...

Now lets get back to the topic... It went a little off the tangent there...
Again you are committing the same mistake that your regional adversary did not commit. Terming me as half knowledgeable does not change the global realpolitik. No doubt your relationship with China is good and they are truly helping you. But you see this relationship from the same prism that people of previous generation viewed Americans with.

The point of all joint military technical cooperationg comes down to one thing: stability. Which is currently absent from your country, a very unfortunate case. See it is very cyclical just as a business model. You develop economy through good and material education, which in turn produces qualified pool of people who work for this economy and bring it forward. Some of these pool of people go into parallel important matters like security and a stable security situation in a country further encourages business interest of foreign countries, in turn increasing foreign direct investment into the one asset your country can offer (be it qualified professionals, cost-effective manufacturing, technological know-how etc anything). This stimulates a country's overall growth as well as more countries' interest in its progress.

Now tell me, is this applicable currently in your situation? Tell me honestly looking around without listening to some prophecies or getting emotional. Right now it is not. Your heart wants the best for your country as all of us do and I appreciate that but you are weighing strategy with emotions.

Every country wants to be a positive centre of attention for the globe wanting progress, development and a powerful safe country. You and I want the same for our countries as well.

A country does not attain all this by getting 'some sections of' other countries' political affiliates on their side but by themselves working up to that level whereby these countries themselves scramble for her.

My point is, unless and until you clean your country from scratch develop your society, economy and educational pool, separate religion from formal education and allow people to think beyond emotions into practical ways of modern life, nothing will change.

The cities of Hiroshima and Nagasaki were reduced to wastelands once. However, today if you visit the same you will find it hard to believe that once these cities had been bombed with nuclear weapons.

From economic and overall increasing clout, let us take the example of the 4 large emerging economies touted as the B.R.I.C on what each of them have:-

1) Brazil: Massive natural resources, strong industrial base, stable economic and social structure and significant educated population.

2) Russia: Massive primary resources, very strong technological and industrial capability, extremely educated population, a good export base for industrial products and and already established global reputation from yesteryears.

3) India: A huge consumer base for foreign companies, strong education system, highly advanced industrial capability, a knowledge-oriented economy, vast pool of qualified people, cost effective labour and a generally positive image around the world.

4) China: A massive manufacturing capability, sound industrial setup, huge pool of educated people, low costs of manufacturing, stable conditions and hence a considerable global reputation.

All of these countries have some key points: strong industrial base, very strong education system (devoid of religion's involvement in practical fields) and some sort of unique capability and/or resource pool.

Please tell me what of this your system currently has and what is lacking. Honestly. Remember that I speak with a lot of Pakistanis here who have some very smart analysis and non-emotional acknowledgement of your current situation.

Regarding your statement of friendly intentions, I will say this: it is not friendly intentions that remain no matter what relationship it is but what you use that friendship to be with in political theatre.

Rest of your post where you mention 'will not know what hit them, pass away in their sleep' etc sounds more like a movie plot of some action thriller than real, practical politics.

And as for imposing of war, your country became a part of Afghanistan since the Soviet invasion. It is simply a consequence that you see now. Again, here as a national of a neutral country I would suggest respected Pakistani members especially the student category here who form the future of your country to consider building up your own stand instead of focusing energies to pull countries towards you. The point is not for you to go to them but to make them come to you.
 
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Again you are committing the same mistake that your regional adversary did not commit. Terming me as half knowledgeable does not change the global realpolitik. No doubt your relationship with China is good and they are truly helping you. But you see this relationship from the same prism that people of previous generation viewed Americans with.

The point of all joint military technical cooperationg comes down to one thing: stability. Which is currently absent from your country, a very unfortunate case. See it is very cyclical just as a business model. You develop economy through good and material education, which in turn produces qualified pool of people who work for this economy and bring it forward. Some of these pool of people go into parallel important matters like security and a stable security situation in a country further encourages business interest of foreign countries, in turn increasing foreign direct investment into the one asset your country can offer (be it qualified professionals, cost-effective manufacturing, technological know-how etc anything). This stimulates a country's overall growth as well as more countries' interest in its progress.

Now tell me, is this applicable currently in your situation? Tell me honestly looking around without listening to some prophecies or getting emotional. Right now it is not. Your heart wants the best for your country as all of us do and I appreciate that but you are weighing strategy with emotions.

Every country wants to be a positive centre of attention for the globe wanting progress, development and a powerful safe country. You and I want the same for our countries as well.

A country does not attain all this by getting 'some sections of' other countries' political affiliates on their side but by themselves working up to that level whereby these countries themselves scramble for her.

My point is, unless and until you clean your country from scratch develop your society, economy and educational pool, separate religion from formal education and allow people to think beyond emotions into practical ways of modern life, nothing will change.

The cities of Hiroshima and Nagasaki were reduced to wastelands once. However, today if you visit the same you will find it hard to believe that once these cities had been bombed with nuclear weapons.

From economic and overall increasing clout, let us take the example of the 4 large emerging economies touted as the B.R.I.C on what each of them have:-

1) Brazil: Massive natural resources, strong industrial base, stable economic and social structure and significant educated population.

2) Russia: Massive primary resources, very strong technological and industrial capability, extremely educated population, a good export base for industrial products and and already established global reputation from yesteryears.

3) India: A huge consumer base for foreign companies, strong education system, highly advanced industrial capability, a knowledge-oriented economy, vast pool of qualified people, cost effective labour and a generally positive image around the world.

4) China: A massive manufacturing capability, sound industrial setup, huge pool of educated people, low costs of manufacturing, stable conditions and hence a considerable global reputation.

All of these countries have some key points: strong industrial base, very strong education system (devoid of religion's involvement in practical fields) and some sort of unique capability and/or resource pool.

Please tell me what of this your system currently has and what is lacking. Honestly. Remember that I speak with a lot of Pakistanis here who have some very smart analysis and non-emotional acknowledgement of your current situation.

Regarding your statement of friendly intentions, I will say this: it is not friendly intentions that remain no matter what relationship it is but what you use that friendship to be with in political theatre.

Rest of your post where you mention 'will not know what hit them, pass away in their sleep' etc sounds more like a movie plot of some action thriller than real, practical politics.

And as for imposing of war, your country became a part of Afghanistan since the Soviet invasion. It is simply a consequence that you see now. Again, here as a national of a neutral country I would suggest respected Pakistani members especially the student category here who form the future of your country to consider building up your own stand instead of focusing energies to pull countries towards you. The point is not for you to go to them but to make them come to you.

Learn to discuss instead of lecturing... and keep your posts short...
 
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Learn to discuss instead of lecturing... and keep your posts short...
First learn to differetiate between religious prophecies and fictitious world of brotherhood from realpolitik before teaching others on how to debate. I have seen most of your posts that consist little strategy and more prophecies or brotherhood theories.

This is a defence forum; not a mythology contest.
 
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First learn to differetiate between religious prophecies and fictitious world of brotherhood from realpolitik before teaching others on how to debate. I have seen most of your posts that consist little strategy and more prophecies or brotherhood theories.

This is a defence forum; not a mythology contest.

Haha... Looks like I hit a nerve there... :)

Take it easy mate... You dont have to discuss/lecture me about anything... I know fully well what I m doing... You go teach your realpolitik to someone who is more gullible to your all high attitude...
 
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Haha... Looks like I hit a nerve there... :)

Take it easy mate... You dont have to discuss/lecture me about anything... I know fully well what I m doing... You go teach your realpolitik to someone who is more gullible to your all high attitude...
I am quite at ease here. Since you wanted to be explained in short words, I just obeyed your request. This is the difference in short and long. :)
 
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red line mean dont attack or president house and pm house???????/ as i know they cross red line from 2005. now they are on pink line because every year they cross green orange blue white lines.they bomb us daily .huh line. begharti ki koi line nhi hoti.
 
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red line mean dont attack or president house and pm house???????/ as i know they cross red line from 2005. now they are on pink line because every year they cross green orange blue white lines.they bomb us daily .huh line. begharti ki koi line nhi hoti.

Probably.Because the US wouldn't care,know any rules.What an irrogant country.
 
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Okey usa goes so does the economical aids given to you what will your government do without it your economy is in bad condition to survive without usa n aids give to you by western countries the words spoken by pakistan are only words AND WILL REMAIN WORDS
 
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Okey usa goes so does the economical aids given to you what will your government do without it your economy is in bad condition to survive without give to you by western countries the words spoken by pakistan are only words AND WILL REMAIN WORDS
Do u think Pakistan is surviving coz of a billion dollars frm usa?
We have lost more than $60 billion in this american invasion.

Our small reaction by stopping us supplies was enough for usa to come on her knees and apologize to us..

Govt. has to show spine.
 
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They should have said that anyone trespassing into Pakistan will go back with a bloody nose instead of condemning the incident when the attack from the NATO helicopter took place But i guess better late than never!
 
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Do u think Pakistan is surviving coz of a billion dollars frm usa?
We have lost more than $60 billion in this american invasion.

Our small reaction by stopping us supplies was enough for usa to come on her knees and apologize to us..

Govt. has to show spine.
Yes! Pakistan is survivng on economic aids.

Is our economy in surplus? We are importing more and exporting less. The deficit caused by this is addressed through economic aids that are released by IMF and America.

Simple economics.
 
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