Pakistan To Participate In Turkey’s TFX Next-Gen Fighter Aircraft Program

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

IMHO:

1. One new next-generation fighter to replace the F-16s.

2. New JF-17 variants to replace old JF-17 variants. Hopefully the new variants will use lots of composites, new engines (e.g. WS-13E) and the subsystems (e.g. radar, avionics, EW/ECM) from the next-gen fighter.

There's no need for a single engine next-gen fighter, especially one that is entirely dependent on the PAF for anchor orders and scale to distribute the R&D overhead (which will be all Pakistan too). We wouldn't be able to sustain it easily, it would be best to either partner with Turkey or to buy from China.

 

[-------]

TFX panoramic cockpit display

 

[araz]

IMHO:

1. One new next-generation fighter to replace the F-16s.

2. New JF-17 variants to replace old JF-17 variants. Hopefully the new variants will use lots of composites, new engines (e.g. WS-13E) and the subsystems (e.g. radar, avionics, EW/ECM) from the next-gen fighter.

There's no need for a single engine next-gen fighter, especially one that is entirely dependent on the PAF for anchor orders and scale to distribute the R&D overhead (which will be all Pakistan too). We wouldn't be able to sustain it easily, it would be best to either partner with Turkey or to buy from China.

I agree. The likely contender for the stealth fighter will be J31 and future iterations may have input from other sources to keep the fighter relevant till 2040-50. In support the US is likely to be flying the 16s till around that time so we will also do so.
A

 

[mrrehan]

It's going to be about the money. How much will it cost? How many air frames will it acquire? Will it be assembled in Pakistan? So many questions.

If its about money India could have don't that.

 

[Sucha Kuggu]

I will rather go to China than Turkey for my next fighter jet. China has lot of accomplishments in the field as compared to Turkey and JF-17 project also tells that Chinese are good in transfer of technology to Pakistan.

 

[Basel]

It's not clear yet, but it may climb as the years go on.

PAF will have to choose from what the market offers. From what I can see, the 5th gen (or whatever) fighter will be the PAF's next top-tier platform, i.e. the F-16 replacement (literal and metaphorical). If the market only offers twin engine designs, such as the FC-31 or TFX, the PAF will choose one of those.

I don't think we'll see PAC develop a new fighter, rather, they'll continue working on the JF-17 design. In the distant future, a JF-17 variant of some kind (Block-6, 7, 8, etc) will continue to be the PAF's mainstay jet. And this isn't a bad thing, especially if sensor technologies reach a point where they can detect low-RCS objects at safe distances.

It will be good if JFT evolved to similar or may be better then Advance Super Hornet or Silient Eagle.

 

[cabatli_53]

Combat Aircraft Magazine

 

[T-123456]

Turkiye will be replacing F-16s with upcoming F-35 (single engine both and as F-35 is destined to do so for many Air-forces).

The F-35 will be replacing the F-4s of the Turkish Air Force,the TFX will be replacing the F-16s.

 

[The Eagle]

The F-35 will be replacing the F-4s of the Turkish Air Force,the TFX will be replacing the F-16s.

Some early models F-16s will be replaced by F-35 and the rest of F-16s fleet will be replaced by TFX by next.

 

[WarFariX]

Combat Aircraft Magazine

View attachment 381498

which issue? month

 

[T-123456]

Some early models F-16s will be replaced by F-35 and the rest of F-16s fleet will be replaced by TFX by next.

Yes because the early models took over the role of the retired early model F-4s,the only F-4s left are the F-4 Phantom 2020s.

 

[XDescendantX]

We should definitely help our Turkish brothers with any expertise we can give them. But in the end, Turkey will most likely go for a twin-engine stealth fighter.

Until Pakistan upgrades to an economic power a single-engine stealth fighter will have to do. Let's bring back knowledge from the TFX program and put it to good use. Pakistan should continue to upgrade it's JFT program and create a single-engine stealth version.

Don't forget, twin-engines cost twice as much to maintain. We won't be getting all these fancy new jet fighters everyone keeps talking about. If we were, we would've added the J-10 (another really cool jet) to our inventory. We only have $$$ for ONE and we only have $$$ to train for ONE.

We can always get a twin-engine stealth fighter from our allies China (J-31) or Turkey (TFX) when needed. BUT we're only going to get ONE!!

future PAF:
single-engine JFX (stealth JF-17/JF-18)
twin-engine J-31 OR TFX

 

[Saifullah Sani]

Turkish Aerospace Industries (TAI) and BAE Systems will ink the TFX design and development agreement they signed in January at the International Defence Industry Fair (IDEF), which is taking place in Istanbul.
In January, TAI and BAE Systems agreed to a £100 million-plus contract that will involve BAE assisting TAI with the design and development of the TFX next-generation multi-role fighter.

The Turkish language news publisher Yeni Şafak reports that the aforementioned agreement will be inked during IDEF. Yeni Şafak added that Pakistan, which had been linked to the TFX program in 2016, may sign a “goodwill agreement” and be a partner in the TFX program. Additional details were not provided.

Notes & Comments:

The Pakistan Air Force (PAF) has not disclosed specific plans regarding its next-generation fighter plans. It did outline on numerous occasions that Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC) Kamra will play a key role in bringing the program to fruition, particularly with the support of the educational facilities being raised in its vicinity as part of the Kamra Aviation City initiative. In March, the PAF’s Chief of Air Staff (CAS) Air Chief Marshal (ACM) Sohail Aman said that PAC’s future lies in manufacturing 5th-generation fighters and active electronically-scanned array (AESA) radars. However, specifics regarding partners or suppliers for the PAF 5th-generation fighter were not provided.

Although the PAF has not commented on the TFX, Pakistan’s Ministry of Defence Production (MoDP) had spoke of it on several occasions. In August, the MoDP Rana Tanveer Hussain told Pakistan’s state-owned television network PTV that Turkey requested Pakistan’s participation on the TFX. In November, the Secretary of the MoDP – Lt. Gen. (retired) Syed Muhammad Owais – told MSI Turkish Defence Review that the “details and scope of collaboration and participation is being worked between the two governments.” At Pakistan’s biennial defence exhibition IDEAS, TAI’s Senior Executive Vice President for Aircraft Ozcan Ertem told MSI that TAI was engaged with relevant Pakistani parties on the TFX.

In a recent interview of the MoDP at IDEF by Anadolu Agency, Mr. Hussain said that Pakistan may initially contribute with integration work at PAC, but efforts will be made to form business ties with Britain (note: the MoDP specifically named the Royal Air Force), from which point PAC will become a partner in the TFX.
The PAF’s current focus is on supplanting the remainder of its 190 legacy F-7P and Mirage III/5s with the JF-17 Thunder, its emerging backbone fighter. For the PAF, its next milestone program is the AESA radar-equipped JF-17 Block-III, which it views will be a significant addition to its fleet from 2019-2020. Besides the JF-17, the PAF leadership continues pointing towards the F-16 as a preferred off-the-shelf fighter for meeting near-term needs. The remainder, be it reports of interest in the Sukhoi Su-35 or other avenues, have been subject to secondary news reports and observer speculation.

The TFX topic is in a strange space in that while the PAF does not comment on it, the Pakistani MoDP and Turkish industry have been forthcoming about Pakistan’s engagement. Interestingly, the PAF CAS ACM Sohail Aman did tell PTV that talks for “procuring” fifth-generation fighters were underway with several countries (seemingly separate from the PAC fifth-generation fighter program). However, this does not necessarily mean that the PAF is interested in the TFX for its own fleet – PAC had manufactured parts of the TAI Anka UAV, even though Pakistan did not procure the drone.
http://quwa.org/2017/05/09/tai-bae-will-ink-tfx-agreement-pakistan-may-join-partner/

 

[Hareeb]

Turkish Aerospace Industries (TAI) and BAE Systems will ink the TFX design and development agreement they signed in January at the International Defence Industry Fair (IDEF), which is taking place in Istanbul.
In January, TAI and BAE Systems agreed to a £100 million-plus contract that will involve BAE assisting TAI with the design and development of the TFX next-generation multi-role fighter.

The Turkish language news publisher Yeni Şafak reports that the aforementioned agreement will be inked during IDEF. Yeni Şafak added that Pakistan, which had been linked to the TFX program in 2016, may sign a “goodwill agreement” and be a partner in the TFX program. Additional details were not provided.

Notes & Comments:

The Pakistan Air Force (PAF) has not disclosed specific plans regarding its next-generation fighter plans. It did outline on numerous occasions that Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC) Kamra will play a key role in bringing the program to fruition, particularly with the support of the educational facilities being raised in its vicinity as part of the Kamra Aviation City initiative. In March, the PAF’s Chief of Air Staff (CAS) Air Chief Marshal (ACM) Sohail Aman said that PAC’s future lies in manufacturing 5th-generation fighters and active electronically-scanned array (AESA) radars. However, specifics regarding partners or suppliers for the PAF 5th-generation fighter were not provided.

Although the PAF has not commented on the TFX, Pakistan’s Ministry of Defence Production (MoDP) had spoke of it on several occasions. In August, the MoDP Rana Tanveer Hussain told Pakistan’s state-owned television network PTV that Turkey requested Pakistan’s participation on the TFX. In November, the Secretary of the MoDP – Lt. Gen. (retired) Syed Muhammad Owais – told MSI Turkish Defence Review that the “details and scope of collaboration and participation is being worked between the two governments.” At Pakistan’s biennial defence exhibition IDEAS, TAI’s Senior Executive Vice President for Aircraft Ozcan Ertem told MSI that TAI was engaged with relevant Pakistani parties on the TFX.

In a recent interview of the MoDP at IDEF by Anadolu Agency, Mr. Hussain said that Pakistan may initially contribute with integration work at PAC, but efforts will be made to form business ties with Britain (note: the MoDP specifically named the Royal Air Force), from which point PAC will become a partner in the TFX.
The PAF’s current focus is on supplanting the remainder of its 190 legacy F-7P and Mirage III/5s with the JF-17 Thunder, its emerging backbone fighter. For the PAF, its next milestone program is the AESA radar-equipped JF-17 Block-III, which it views will be a significant addition to its fleet from 2019-2020. Besides the JF-17, the PAF leadership continues pointing towards the F-16 as a preferred off-the-shelf fighter for meeting near-term needs. The remainder, be it reports of interest in the Sukhoi Su-35 or other avenues, have been subject to secondary news reports and observer speculation.

The TFX topic is in a strange space in that while the PAF does not comment on it, the Pakistani MoDP and Turkish industry have been forthcoming about Pakistan’s engagement. Interestingly, the PAF CAS ACM Sohail Aman did tell PTV that talks for “procuring” fifth-generation fighters were underway with several countries (seemingly separate from the PAC fifth-generation fighter program). However, this does not necessarily mean that the PAF is interested in the TFX for its own fleet – PAC had manufactured parts of the TAI Anka UAV, even though Pakistan did not procure the drone.
http://quwa.org/2017/05/09/tai-bae-will-ink-tfx-agreement-pakistan-may-join-partner/

I think Pakistan will send some engineering teams for TFX program - to learn tidbits about western tech for 5th gen. aircraft - and will collaborate with China on J-31 (may manufacture some parts in PAC for Pakistan procured J-31) and may replace some Chinese tech with Western tech for her 5th gen. aircrafts. A mix of east-west tech.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

My gut tells me that this will probably be an industry level partnership with TAI sending some valuable work to PAC in exchange for T-129 and MILGEM contracts - i.e. offsets. Of course, the industry element could lead to the PAF buying a few TFX to begin replacing F-16s, but that need not happen. PAC also made Anka UAV parts, even though neither the PAF or the PA bought Anka UAVs.