Pakistan to get 2 nuclear reactors from China

[kamakazi attack]

The days of the US doing things with a double standard is coming to an end.

10 years ago China wouldn't dare do 99% of the things it does now. Thing have changed. May the man with the deepest pocket do the talking.

Either way I don't trust an American nor Chinese dominated world.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

an economically and militarily strong China is in our interests (goes without saying)

in the end, every country should respect eachother's sovereignty and aspirations as long as they do not conflict with that of the other

easier said than done, however. And it would be naiive to think that things will transpire to that level where everyone lives and lets others live.

China is growing at a rapid pace and will easily become the largest economy in the world. China's growth is a success story that others like ourselves must emulate.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Stick to the topic please.

 

[H2O3C4Nitrogen]

Personally i think that Nuclear fuel is more expensive in the long run, as there are much measures needed to dump Nuclear waste appropriately. What i think is there has to be a mechanism to dump Nuclear waste in such a way that it dosent affects our Planet. The US,Russia China Japan and many other countries have a roll to play in this regard. As Nuclear waste is toxic for almost any organic living form in this planet. Maybe the US can forge the Developed countries to cooperate and develop a mechanism and technology to send this Nuclear waste out of this planet maybe into space or might dump it on some dead planet like Mars. Though it would be very difficult due to the global differences and Overall cost but it can be for the ultimate best for the Ecology of our Planet and thus the mankind.

 

[Solomon2]

Personally i think that Nuclear fuel is more expensive in the long run, as there are much measures needed to dump Nuclear waste appropriately.

If capital costs are low and if everything is done right nuclear energy is not more expensive. The thing is, the "done right" bit is often very difficult, either for political or for moral reasons. Even with the safest reactor designs, nuclear energy requires careful management - you can't let crooks or careless people at the helm.

What i think is there has to be a mechanism to dump Nuclear waste in such a way that it dosent affects our Planet. The US,Russia China Japan and many other countries have a roll to play in this regard. As Nuclear waste is toxic for almost any organic living form in this planet.

We're not going to take your nuclear waste away for you. Pakistan is going to have to bear the burden itself.

 

[TaimiKhan]

We're not going to take your nuclear waste away for you. Pakistan is going to have to bear the burden itself.

He is not talking about Pakistan, he is talking about every body, but the countries whose name he took, was meant as these countries are more developed and have space programs, thus they can do something with this regard by sending waste material outside of the planet, cheaply, not just for Pakistan, but for everyone who is producing nuclear waste.

Plus, we have no desire for the US to take care of our waste, we can do it ourselves, have been doing, will keep doing.

Thanks but no thanks.

 

[Solomon2]

Shooting nuclear waste into space is a pipe-dream.

1) Nuclear waste may be compact but it is very heavy. We're talking many thousands of tons for a single reactor. Not just spent fuel, but irradiated equipment. No nation has even one-hundredth that kind of launch capacity.

2) Spaceflight is unreliable; about 4% of launches fail, I think. The effects of even one failed launch would be catastrophic unless the nuclear waste was heavily shielded. Very heavily shielded; think fourteen tons of spent fuel surrounded by a hundred-ton cask.

Clearly, neither technology nor economics dictate sending n-waste into space, nor will they in the foreseeable future. To blindly put faith in space dumping is the height of irresponsible thinking.

Plus, we have no desire for the US to take care of our waste, we can do it ourselves, have been doing, will keep doing.

Maybe Pakistan is just keeping its dirty laundry secret. How would you know?

 

[TaimiKhan]

Maybe Pakistan is just keeping its dirty laundry secret. How would you know?

Well who doesn't keep secrets ??

Everyone nearly does, and our dirty laundry secrets would be less compared to others who are ruling the world.

Plus, our nuke program is very small compared to others and relatively new compared to others, thus for now, our size of dirty laundry would be very very small compared to the US, Russia or others.

 

[Solomon2]

our dirty laundry secrets would be less compared to others who are ruling the world.

Two fantasies in one sentence!

for now, our size of dirty laundry would be very very small compared to the US, Russia or others.

Even if that were so, what comfort does that offer to Pakistanis who may be affected by nuclear waste mis-management, like the folks at Dera Ghazi Khan? link

So one of the ironies of Pakistan's nuclear program is that those who develop weapons and power are hailed as heroes, while, un-heralded, the poisonous by-products they create poison and kill their countrymen. It doesn't have to be this way, but if Pakistanis themselves won't take an interest in holding their government accountable to clean things up, why would they expect any change for the better?

And why should they be proud, rather than terrified, to receive two nuclear reactors from China?

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Previous posts related to alleged radioactive waste dumping have been restored since context was missing in some subsequent posts.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Two fantasies in one sentence!

Even if that were so, what comfort does that offer to Pakistanis who may be affected by nuclear waste mis-management, like the folks at Dera Ghazi Khan? link

So one of the ironies of Pakistan's nuclear program is that those who develop weapons and power are hailed as heroes, while, un-heralded, the poisonous by-products they create poison and kill their countrymen. It doesn't have to be this way, but if Pakistanis themselves won't take an interest in holding their government accountable to clean things up, why would they expect any change for the better?

And why should they be proud, rather than terrified, to receive two nuclear reactors from China?

The DGK case remains unresolved AFAIK, with the PAEC maintaining that all waste was dumped in underground tunnels.

However, PH's comments about testing the locals, water supply etc. are valid, to assure residents that they are safe. I am not sure what the possibility of ground water resources being contaminated through seepage from waste stored in underground tunnels is, but should be something that is looked at as well.

 

[KS]

Guys guys...

1)If Pakistan is getting these for civilian purposes under IAEA supervision then Im all for it..U too are a developing country with huge shortages in electricity..So go for it.

2) If its for Military purpose ...well my opinion is completely not counted.

But practically speaking I dont think China can hand u over the 2 reactors without NSG waiver which in all practical sense i dont see happening.

P.S.: this deal was struck before China became a member of NSG or after that..?

 

[pak-yes]

Two fantasies in one sentence!

Even if that were so, what comfort does that offer to Pakistanis who may be affected by nuclear waste mis-management, like the folks at Dera Ghazi Khan? link

So one of the ironies of Pakistan's nuclear program is that those who develop weapons and power are hailed as heroes, while, un-heralded, the poisonous by-products they create poison and kill their countrymen. It doesn't have to be this way, but if Pakistanis themselves won't take an interest in holding their government accountable to clean things up, why would they expect any change for the better?

And why should they be proud, rather than terrified, to receive two nuclear reactors from China?

1.And why is that?Care to elobrate.

2.Everyone is innocent unless proved guilty.

3.You sitting in America and Israel have now idea how it feels to be without electricity.

 

[Solomon2]

The DGK case remains unresolved AFAIK, with the PAEC maintaining that all waste was dumped in underground tunnels.

However, PH's comments about testing the locals, water supply etc. are valid, to assure residents that they are safe. I am not sure what the possibility of ground water resources being contaminated through seepage from waste stored in underground tunnels is, but should be something that is looked at as well.

In the U.S. we employ legions of geologists to evaluate waste sites. I don't know if Pakistan has done so, although I'm sure Pakistan has this expertise.

Also, our waste areas are used for a time and then sealed. The reason is that spent nuclear fuel consists of fuel pellets embedded in sealed rods but over time gas, as a decay by-product, builds up and the rod ruptures. Thus the whole facility eventually gets contaminated. So unless these facilities are carefully monitored and tested, calamity may result years after the wastes were delivered.

An alternate is fuel reprocessing. This eliminates the bundles but creates liquid radwaste and concentrates unusable radioactive by-products. Many of the disposal problems remain, or even increase.

Maybe Pakistanis could benefit from America's experience. In the U.S., we first entrusted the Atomic Energy Commission to both develop civilian nuclear power and regulate it. By the early 70s it was realized the agency could not handle the cross-purposes, so the regulatory function was split off into a separate agency. Radwaste from military programs was also given greater public scrutiny. Only when these steps were taken was true progress made at resolving old and growing problems.

 

[pak-yes]

Guys guys...

1)If Pakistan is getting these for civilian purposes under IAEA supervision then Im all for it..U too are a developing country with huge shortages in electricity..So go for it.

2) If its for Military purpose ...well my opinion is completely not counted.

But practically speaking I dont think China can hand u over the 2 reactors without NSG waiver which in all practical sense i dont see happening.

P.S.: this deal was struck before China became a member of NSG or after that..?

Practically i think deal was struck recently but there is a clause in NSG that allows suppliers to fulfill previous contracts and i think that China used the same clause.

Correct me if i am wrong.