Pakistan to face economic sanctions if doesn't open NATO routes

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Yes, I was expecting Pakistan's response to be rational when I said that, but obviously rationality not a reasonable expectation with Pakistani policies any longer.

Since we are talking about 'rationality', I'll reiterate the points I made earlier:

Even before the NATO Supply Blockade, the US had:

1. Not provided CSF reimbursements since 2010
2. Not involved Pakistan in the Afghan endgame in any meaningful manner
3. Not ceased drone strikes
4. Was conducting illegal unilateral intelligence and military operations on Pakistani soil
5. Was refusing to offer Pakistan greater market access to the US through reduced tarrifs/FTA
6. Was refusing to offer Pakistan civilian nuclear cooperation

So, what tangible long term benefits did Pakistan lose out on by behaving 'irrationally' and closing the supply routes for over 5 months?

If you cannot point to any tangible long term benefits that Pakistan lost out on, then Pakistan's behavior has not been irrational at all.

 

[lem34]

Yes, I was expecting Pakistan's response to be rational when I said that, but obviously rationality not a reasonable expectation with Pakistani policies any longer.

So when something that you state is going to happen does not happen is because others are irrational. Tell me why you are appreciated in thank yous by people who do not hide the fact they hate Pakistan and wish Pakistan ill. Could it not be that you are the one that is irrational??

Pakistan is being set up as a target from many sides, and its own policies are failing to prevent that. That is the more prudent way of looking at the evolving situation.

No Pakistan has been set up as a target from 2007 onwards by Americans with Israel and India in the background. It is better that we recognise that these three countries do not wish us well rather than try to ingratiate ourselves with them

 

[VCheng]

..................

So, what tangible long term benefits did Pakistan lose out on by behaving 'irrationally' and closing the supply routes for over 5 months?

If you cannot point to any tangible long term benefits that Pakistan lost out on, then Pakistan's behavior has not been irrational at all.

Fair points, but if Pakistan faces sanctions as a result of being seen as an adversary instead of an ally, surely that will not be to its long term benefit, unless you think that being sanctioned will somehow be a benefit too?

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Fair points, but if Pakistan faces sanctions as a result of being seen as an adversary instead of an ally, surely that will not be to its long term benefit, unless you think that being sanctioned will somehow be a benefit too?

Sanctions over a supply route closure that you yourself have argued is largely irrelevant to NATO, specifically the US?

 

[VCheng]

Sanctions over a supply route closure that you yourself have argued is largely irrelevant to NATO, specifically the US?

No Sir, that is not what I said. I said sanctions over being seen as an adversary instead of an ally. Big difference between the two.

 

[Patriot]

if you really think what you have written than i think you are not aware of the war in Afghanistan and Pakistan.
1. angering US??? we are angering them or they are trying something which angers us..??? we are not attacking them . they are bombing with drones when ever they want. they killed our soldiers at salala. not we are angering them ???
2, we are not doing these thing for Taliban or Afghanistan we have to save Pakistan. all these things relate US covert war against pakistan. Raymond davis ?? did you forgot him??? he was not selling Choley in pakistan. he was trying to build a network of spyies in pakistan tribal areas. so it is not for afghanistan its all about saving pakistan,.

Bro the same animals are killing our soldiers as well - I mean the talibans which drones target - I understand civllians also get hit but that's why our Armed Forces should move in tribal areas and establish full writ of State of Pakistan - The people of FATA should understand that the days of free for all era is gone - Now FATA cannot serve as ilaqa ghair/lawless land.How is Raymond Davis Issue US fault?We gave him visa and allowed them to roam our country.I will be 100% against drone strikes the day our soldiers and Pakistani People can roam freely in FATA without getting hit.

Maybe if U.S. started bombing the place where "Patriot" has his family living at, then his opinion might change.

Omar Bahi - I would not let criminals come inside my house in the first place - On the other hand if someone's robs my neighbor house and then i give him protection under my house i would not be surprised if police knocks on my door and arrest me as well for aiding and abetting a criminal.I mean let's get real the main argument/justification that US uses for drone attacks is that GOP/Pakistani State does not have any writ in FATA so why should we care???That's why it is essential that Pakistani Government establish full control over FATA and if still Americans refuse to stop drone attacks then we can escalate the issue (through UN/Military Options).We have got to ensure that our territory is not used against anyone.

 

[The enlightened]

Do you think the US is at the point where it would essentially break off all diplomatic ties with Pakistan and impose economic sanctions?

Most Americans and American apologists are claiming that the transit route through Pakistan is largely irrelevant for the US anyway, so why would the US use leverage such as economic sanctions to get the transit route opened?

IMO, if the US did decide to impose unilateral economic sanctions on Pakistan, it would be over something different, perhaps something related to the nuclear program, if the US claims of the Pakistani transit route closure being 'no big deal' are correct.

It is not at any such point but what we were discussing was UN sanctions vs US sanctions which basically implied that we are in a hypothetical scenario where such conditions are pretty much a given.
Anyway, the US could in the end use sanctions to force-open the route if they feel that the economic loss is too heavy and unnecessary. Maybe, if Romney becomes the Prez. and starts some sort of a cleanup campaign. I don't know. There are endless possibilities. Those who claim that the route is not relevant could also be doing this to cover their relative incompetence in getting the routes to open.
Already there is much hatred over Pakistan after OBL and this could be used in an election campaign too.[Imagining]

 

[lem34]

A lot of bandwidth has been expended on the statement that Pakistan to face economic sanctions if doesn't open Nato routes. Perhaps we should look at who is the rational sane person who is saying this:

Chaudhry Ahmad Mukhtar (Urdu: چوہدری احمد مختار ) (born 1946 in Lahore) is the current Defence Minister of Pakistan in the PM Yousaf Raza Gillani-led cabinet.[1] He is a central leader of the Pakistan Peoples Party from Gujrat District. He defeated Chaudhry Shujaat Hussain from Gujrat NA-105 in 1993 & 2008, the leader of PML-Q party, who was allied with President Pervez Musharraf, in Pakistan's 2008 elections.

Born in Lahore, Ahmad Mukhtar has done his Operational Management from California, United States and a Diploma in Plastic Technology from West Germany. Mukhtar is also a graduate of very famous FC College University. He is a businessman who started his political career in 1990 on PPP platform. His brother Ahmad Saeed served as PIA Managing director (from April 2001) and PIA Chairman (from April 2003, both until April 2005) during the General Pervez Musharraf era. Now, Ahmad Mukhtar himself has taken the role of Chairman PIA from May 2008.

it has also been reported that he's son of a prostitute, and belongs to a famous family of Delhi relating to art's particular genre I.e, dance. In different times he's been declared as a chicken hearted base born who has been failing Pakistan on every ground, with an agenda that Pakistan is very weak and not capable of self defence. Further stated the discrepancy between the name of his father and his actual father has been a conundrum every since his school life.

Ahmad Mukhtar - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I am checking voracity of some reports of mental illness as well

Pakistani Defence Minister Chaudhry Ahmad Mukhtar is mentally sick (seriously)

Pakistani Defence Minister Chaudhry Ahmad Mukhtar is mentally sick (seriously) - YouTube

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

No Sir, that is not what I said. I said sanctions over being seen as an adversary instead of an ally. Big difference between the two.

China was long considered an adversary of the US (and continues to be seen as one by many right wing analysts and politicians in the US), yet that did not result in sanctions.

If one looks at US sanctions imposed over Cuba, NK, Myanmar and Iran, the common thread is 'dictatorship and/or specific programs' (such as Iran and NK's nuclear program), and not merely an 'adversarial relationship' with the nations involved.

 

[VCheng]

China was long considered an adversary of the US (and continues to be seen as one by many right wing analysts and politicians in the US), yet that did not result in sanctions.

Pakistan is no China, Sir.

If one looks at US sanctions imposed over Cuba, NK, Myanmar and Iran, the common thread is 'dictatorship and/or specific programs' (such as Iran and NK's nuclear program), and not merely an 'adversarial relationship' with the nations involved.

The issue with Pakistan is likely going to be the terrorism sanctuaries issue, if it comes to that. I hope being declared an adversary will not be necessary.

Just as it is not China, Pakistan is not Cuba, North Korea, Myanmar or Iran either.

 

[The enlightened]

China was long considered an adversary of the US (and continues to be seen as one by many right wing analysts and politicians in the US), yet that did not result in sanctions.

If one looks at US sanctions imposed over Cuba, NK, Myanmar and Iran, the common thread is 'dictatorship and/or specific programs' (such as Iran and NK's nuclear program), and not merely an 'adversarial relationship' with the nations involved.

Pakistan has those specific programs too.
And please don't compare China to Pakistan. China is in a way different league than Pakistan and it's importance to US is several times more than any other country.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Anyway, the US could in the end use sanctions to force-open the route if they feel that the economic loss is too heavy and unnecessary. Maybe, if Romney becomes the Prez. and starts some sort of a cleanup campaign. I don't know. There are endless possibilities. Those who claim that the route is not relevant could also be doing this to cover their relative incompetence in getting the routes to open.

Yes, the potential of economic sanctions by the US is primarily tied into whether or not the Pakistan Transit route is critical or not for the US/NATO over the long term.

But on the issue of leveraging anti-Pakistan sentiment during the US election campaign, Obama is doing a pretty good job of that as it is through the refusal to apologize, refusal to end drone strikes and public statements regarding the legality of drone strikes.

I don't see economic sanctions over the supply routes, at this point, being significantly beneficial to Obama, compared to the actions he has already taken that are mentioned above.

 

[lem34]

Pakistan is no China, Sir.



The issue with Pakistan is likely going to be the terrorism sanctuaries issue, if it comes to that. I hope being declared an adversary will not be necessary.

Just as it is not China, Pakistan is not Cuba, North Korea, Myanmar or Iran either.

Maybe that's cos Pakistan is Pakistan. We needed you to to clarify that point. Pakistan has already proved to you and to all those that felt that routes would be open in a few weeks they are wrong. Suppose some only accept Pakistani capability once it beyond doubt

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Pakistan has those specific programs too.

And the US has not complained about those programs in the manner it has about those of NK and Iran so far has it?

And please don't compare China to Pakistan. China is in a way different league than Pakistan and it's importance to US is several times more than any other country.

Comparisons are never exact, but can be relevant, as is the one between China and Pakistan, in the context that the comparison was made in.

The issue with Pakistan is likely going to be the terrorism sanctuaries issue, if it comes to that. I hope being declared an adversary will not be necessary.

I agree, sanctions such as the ones being discussed are a likely possibility in terms of US pressure on Pakistan to launch more military operations against the Taliban/AQ and/or allowing more US military operations inside Pakistan.

The above is a more likely driver of US sanctions than the Nuclear Program, which the US, so far, largely appears to have acquiesced to.

But I still see no potential of sanctions over the refusal of Pakistan to end the NATO blockade, if indeed the blockade is irrelevant to the US.

 

[The enlightened]

And the US has not complained about those programs in the manner it has about those of NK and Iran so far has it?

Comparisons are never exact, but can be relevant, as is the one between China and Pakistan, in the context that the comparison was made in.

They have complained [ not like NK bcoz obviously PK is/was an ally]. Infact it could be the best possible explanation for sanctions along with terrorist sanctuaries as VCheng pointed out. Combine those two and we get the famous 'nukes in the hands of terrorists' and the west goes into a full-blown paranoia.
So the possibilities are endless and the ball is in Pak's court.