Pakistan to be superpower centre of Khilafat in future - Sirajul Haq

[Waffen SS]

These jamaatiyas were given a good thrashing by MQM in Karachi. I think another dose is urgently needed.

 

[WAJsal]

not so hard to figure out

 

[Dushmann]

This is not some small town Mullah talking gibberish. This is Chief of Jamaat e Islami.

And one can not blame him for these dreams when you consider that:

1. Pakistan is soon going to be largest Muslim country. (No census in two decades, it is possible it already is; in Indonesia's only 80% population is Muslim )

2. Pakistan will soon be world's fourth most populous country.

3. Pakistan is a nuclear power. Only one in the Islamic world.

4. Pakistan has largest Military among the Islamic/Muslim countries.

5. Pakistan ruling class has always been fond of such larger than life dreams. They like to play great games with big boys. e.g. they proudly claim they defeated two superpowers. e.g Osama bin laden was found next to Military training academy in Pakistan. They have brainwashed people into these things even radicalizing the mainstream school text books. Large number of population believes in them.

6. There are clear signs that even in the new generation of the Pakistani elites there is a significant section that supports Pakistan becoming a radical and model Islamic state. e.g. couple of years ago there were some news leaks about a faction supporting Hizb-ut-Tahrir in Pakistan armed forces. e.g High level navy officers provided support to attack on Karachi dockyard attack.

7. Islam is not completely compatible with idea of dividing the Ummah into nation states.
According to many Islamic scholars, democracy is unislamic.
Most of the Muslim countries have mixed Islam with native culture. They are nationalistic and proud of their roots, including the Arabs.
Even Bangladesh, whose people and leaders made creation of Pakistan possible, made peace with their native Bengali roots.
Only Pakistan (i.e. the minority elite class which claims Arab-Central Asian origin to claim high caste status in Islamic caste system) has made strong efforts to strongly deny their native Indian identity and erase traces of native culture, and to instill the same beliefs in common people i.e. majority masses, by systematically brainwashing them, through government+madrassa education system.

So as Pakistanis becomes purer and purer Muslims, Pakistan has a strong case to claim to be a Pivot of Islamic Khilafah.

In conclusion, no need to ridicule Aamir of Jamaat e Islami. He is not insane. Large number, probably majority, of people of Pakistan believe the same. And they have a strong reason to hold such beliefs.

Hope this is not off topic.

 

[A.M.]

Did IS put him on the payroll already?!?

 

[TheFlyingPretzel]

This is not some small town Mullah talking gibberish. This is Chief of Jamaat e Islami.

And one can not blame him for these dreams when you consider that:

1. Pakistan is soon going to be largest Muslim country. (No census in two decades, it is possible it already is; in Indonesia's only 80% population is Muslim )

2. Pakistan will soon be world's fourth most populous country.

3. Pakistan is a nuclear power. Only one in the Islamic world.

4. Pakistan has largest Military among the Islamic/Muslim countries.

5. Pakistan ruling class has always been fond of such larger than life dreams. They like to play great games with big boys. e.g. they proudly claim they defeated two superpowers. e.g Osama bin laden was found next to Military training academy in Pakistan. They have brainwashed people into these things even radicalizing the mainstream school text books. Large number of population believes in them.

6. There are clear signs that even in the new generation of the Pakistani elites there is a significant section that supports Pakistan becoming a radical and model Islamic state. e.g. couple of years ago there were some news leaks about a faction supporting Tehrik e Islam in Pakistan armed forces. e.g High level navy officers provided support to attack on Karachi dockyard attack.

7. Islam is not completely compatible with idea of dividing the Ummah into nation states.
According to many Islamic scholars, democracy is unislamic.
Most of the Muslim countries have mixed Islam with native culture. They are nationalistic and proud of their roots, including the Arabs.
Even Bangladesh, whose people and leaders made creation of Pakistan possible, made peace with their native Bengali roots.
Only Pakistan (i.e. the minority elite class which claims Arab-Central Asian origin to claim high caste status in Islamic caste system) has made strong efforts to strongly deny their native Indian identity and erase traces of native culture, and to instill the same beliefs in common people i.e. majority masses, by systematically brainwashing them, through government+madrassa education system.

So as Pakistanis becomes purer and purer Muslims, Pakistan has a strong case to claim to be a Pivot of Islamic Khilafah.

In conclusion, no need to ridicule Aamir of Jamaat e Islami. He is not insane. Large number, probably majority, of people of Pakistan believe the same. And they have a strong reason to hold such beliefs.

Hope this is not off topic.

You're generalizing at best and not even paying lip-service to the possibility that a burgeoning economy and massive urbanization of the rural population would dilute any stray opinions seeking the establishment of a caliphate. (you do know that it is mostly the poor and downtrodden who talk of the caliphate, and the rich are too busy leeching the system dry? right?)

Also for an Indian who has never dared step on our side of the border you seem to argue with conviction on the state of the Islamic Empire in Pakistan which, to me and almost all other informed individuals on this forum, makes you look like a complete blockhead.

If it helps you sleep better at night, let me remind you that the current state of 'Islamization' is paltry compared to the 80's when our helmsman was having wet dreams of a united Ummah and complete dominion over the Islamic world. If anything, a significant majority of Pakistanis today have unanimously decided to reject the Talibanization of our society which you should quite clearly be able to observe, sitting on your side of the border, by the sheer support for the massive military operations being conducted to root out Islamic extremism, and with it the talk of a pan-Islamic caliphate, from the very core of our society.

Lastly, even if there was the establishment of a caliphate on this side of the border, and we did happen to be at the centre of it all, it would be all for the greater good considering the pace at which Hindu nationalism is transcending the modernity which India ought to have represented and steering it towards the Hinduism of yore. It's called saffronization and the pace at which it is accelerating is alarming. Here's a short list from wiki of the diversity of parties which are increasingly promoting Hindu nationalism as opposed to plurality and tolerance.

• Akhil Bharatiya Hindu Mahasabha
• Akhil Bharatiya Hindu Shakti Dal
• Akhil Bharatiya Jan Sangh
• Akhil Bharatiya Ram Rajya Parishad
• Akhil Bharatiya Shivsena Rashtrawadi
• Akhand Hindustan Morcha
• All India Hindu Mahasabha
• Apna Hindu Ram Bhakt Party
• Arya Sabha
• Bharatiya Hindu Sena
• Bharatiya Janata Party
• Bharatiya Janshakti Party
• Bharatiya Swadeshi Sangh
• Hindu Ekta Andolan Party
• Hindu Praja Party
• Hindu Rashtra Sena
• Hindu Samaj Party
• Hindu Sena
• Hindu Swaraj Sangathan
• Hindu Vidyarthi Sena
• Ram Sena Rashtrawadi
• Ramrajya Marg
• Rashtriya Hindu Sena
• Rashtriya Hindu Sangathan
• Rashtriya Hindu Morcha
• Rashtriya Jagran Manch
• Samrath Bharat
• Sanatan Sanstha
• Shiv Sena
• Shivrajya Party

• Asom Bharatiya Janata Party (Assam)
• Nikhil Manipuri Hindu Mahasabha (Manipur)
• Hindu Munnani (Tamil Nadu)
• Hindu Makkal Katchi (Tamil Nadu)
• Janatha Party (South India)
• Maharashtra Navnirman Sena (Maharashtra)
• Tamil Nadu Hindu Vellalar Youth Kazhagam (Tamil Nadu)
• Sri Ram Sena (Karnataka)
• Bharatiya Jana Paksham (Kerala)
• Haindava Keralam (Kerala)
• Sanatan Prabhat (Goa)
• Hindu Samhati (West Bengal)

It's time you retired as a Pakistan-expert and started weeding your own backyard.

 

[livingdead]

You're generalizing at best and not even paying lip-service to the possibility that a burgeoning economy and massive urbanization of the rural population would dilute any stray opinions seeking the establishment of a caliphate. (you do know that it is mostly the poor and downtrodden who talk of the caliphate, and the rich are too busy leeching the system dry? right?)

Also for an Indian who has never dared step on our side of the border you seem to argue with conviction on the state of the Islamic Empire in Pakistan which, to me and almost all other informed individuals on this forum, makes you look like a complete blockhead.

If it helps you sleep better at night, let me remind you that the current state of 'Islamization' is paltry compared to the 80's when our helmsman was having wet dreams of a united Ummah and complete dominion over the Islamic world. If anything, a significant majority of Pakistanis today have unanimously decided to reject the Talibanization of our society which you should quite clearly be able to observe, sitting on your side of the border, by the sheer support for the massive military operations being conducted to root out Islamic extremism, and with it the talk of a pan-Islamic caliphate, from the very core of our society.

Lastly, even if there was the establishment of a caliphate on this side of the border, and we did happen to be at the centre of it all, it would be all for the greater good considering the pace at which Hindu nationalism is transcending the modernity which India ought to have represented and steering it towards the Hinduism of yore. It's called saffronization and the pace at which it is accelerating is alarming. Here's a short list from wiki of the diversity of parties which are increasingly promoting Hindu nationalism as opposed to plurality and tolerance.

• Akhil Bharatiya Hindu Mahasabha
• Akhil Bharatiya Hindu Shakti Dal
• Akhil Bharatiya Jan Sangh
• Akhil Bharatiya Ram Rajya Parishad
• Akhil Bharatiya Shivsena Rashtrawadi
• Akhand Hindustan Morcha
• All India Hindu Mahasabha
• Apna Hindu Ram Bhakt Party
• Arya Sabha
• Bharatiya Hindu Sena
• Bharatiya Janata Party
• Bharatiya Janshakti Party
• Bharatiya Swadeshi Sangh
• Hindu Ekta Andolan Party
• Hindu Praja Party
• Hindu Rashtra Sena
• Hindu Samaj Party
• Hindu Sena
• Hindu Swaraj Sangathan
• Hindu Vidyarthi Sena
• Ram Sena Rashtrawadi
• Ramrajya Marg
• Rashtriya Hindu Sena
• Rashtriya Hindu Sangathan
• Rashtriya Hindu Morcha
• Rashtriya Jagran Manch
• Samrath Bharat
• Sanatan Sanstha
• Shiv Sena
• Shivrajya Party

• Asom Bharatiya Janata Party (Assam)
• Nikhil Manipuri Hindu Mahasabha (Manipur)
• Hindu Munnani (Tamil Nadu)
• Hindu Makkal Katchi (Tamil Nadu)
• Janatha Party (South India)
• Maharashtra Navnirman Sena (Maharashtra)
• Tamil Nadu Hindu Vellalar Youth Kazhagam (Tamil Nadu)
• Sri Ram Sena (Karnataka)
• Bharatiya Jana Paksham (Kerala)
• Haindava Keralam (Kerala)
• Sanatan Prabhat (Goa)
• Hindu Samhati (West Bengal)

It's time you retired as a Pakistan-expert and started weeding your own backyard.

there is no point in pointing fingers.. we both are quite similar... we got lucky because nehru and ambedkar made sure we got a good secular constitution. Although such tradition got eroded it still works against hindu rightwing extremism.

 

[Finer]

He regretted that banks deny loans to women, who make up 51 percent of the country’s population, and extend the facility to the corrupt politicians and industrialists, who get them written off later. He declared that an Islamic government would grant interest-free loans to women so that they could bring up their children and make them useful citizens.


That's good point. The women needs approved interest-free loans which appears to be the biggest factor in Pakistan.

 

[A.Rafay]

This guy is nuts like all other mullahs. He is also biggest terrorist supporter.

 

[mughal arslan shah mirza]

You're generalizing at best and not even paying lip-service to the possibility that a burgeoning economy and massive urbanization of the rural population would dilute any stray opinions seeking the establishment of a caliphate. (you do know that it is mostly the poor and downtrodden who talk of the caliphate, and the rich are too busy leeching the system dry? right?)

Also for an Indian who has never dared step on our side of the border you seem to argue with conviction on the state of the Islamic Empire in Pakistan which, to me and almost all other informed individuals on this forum, makes you look like a complete blockhead.

If it helps you sleep better at night, let me remind you that the current state of 'Islamization' is paltry compared to the 80's when our helmsman was having wet dreams of a united Ummah and complete dominion over the Islamic world. If anything, a significant majority of Pakistanis today have unanimously decided to reject the Talibanization of our society which you should quite clearly be able to observe, sitting on your side of the border, by the sheer support for the massive military operations being conducted to root out Islamic extremism, and with it the talk of a pan-Islamic caliphate, from the very core of our society.

Lastly, even if there was the establishment of a caliphate on this side of the border, and we did happen to be at the centre of it all, it would be all for the greater good considering the pace at which Hindu nationalism is transcending the modernity which India ought to have represented and steering it towards the Hinduism of yore. It's called saffronization and the pace at which it is accelerating is alarming. Here's a short list from wiki of the diversity of parties which are increasingly promoting Hindu nationalism as opposed to plurality and tolerance.

• Akhil Bharatiya Hindu Mahasabha
• Akhil Bharatiya Hindu Shakti Dal
• Akhil Bharatiya Jan Sangh
• Akhil Bharatiya Ram Rajya Parishad
• Akhil Bharatiya Shivsena Rashtrawadi
• Akhand Hindustan Morcha
• All India Hindu Mahasabha
• Apna Hindu Ram Bhakt Party
• Arya Sabha
• Bharatiya Hindu Sena
• Bharatiya Janata Party
• Bharatiya Janshakti Party
• Bharatiya Swadeshi Sangh
• Hindu Ekta Andolan Party
• Hindu Praja Party
• Hindu Rashtra Sena
• Hindu Samaj Party
• Hindu Sena
• Hindu Swaraj Sangathan
• Hindu Vidyarthi Sena
• Ram Sena Rashtrawadi
• Ramrajya Marg
• Rashtriya Hindu Sena
• Rashtriya Hindu Sangathan
• Rashtriya Hindu Morcha
• Rashtriya Jagran Manch
• Samrath Bharat
• Sanatan Sanstha
• Shiv Sena
• Shivrajya Party

• Asom Bharatiya Janata Party (Assam)
• Nikhil Manipuri Hindu Mahasabha (Manipur)
• Hindu Munnani (Tamil Nadu)
• Hindu Makkal Katchi (Tamil Nadu)
• Janatha Party (South India)
• Maharashtra Navnirman Sena (Maharashtra)
• Tamil Nadu Hindu Vellalar Youth Kazhagam (Tamil Nadu)
• Sri Ram Sena (Karnataka)
• Bharatiya Jana Paksham (Kerala)
• Haindava Keralam (Kerala)
• Sanatan Prabhat (Goa)
• Hindu Samhati (West Bengal)

It's time you retired as a Pakistan-expert and started weeding your own backyard.

Great post . Just one suggestion though. I think it's the ultra-conservatives amongst the lower-middle class (urban) who think like this and not the 'poor' per se. The poor folk whether urban or rural are a Barelvi and very open-minded group most of the time. Moreover, the saffronisation that you talked about encapsulates pretty much all sections of Hindu society which is quite surprising and odd. I mean so many Hindus born in the West and seemingly liberal believe in these things down to the T. It's a shocker sometimes.

 

[Dushmann]

^^^^^ @TheFlyingPretzel

Whether they can succeed in Khilafat project is a different matter (IMO not possible). What matters is that there is a strong case and a strong base for such Utopian projects. Especially if you elites fail to give employment to the tens of millions of undereducated youth brought up on Islamic pseudohistory and pro-Jihad brainwashing.

I think your consolation is needed to the Shia-Ahmedi- (pseudo) Liberal sections of establishment who are looking at their colleagues supporting Hizb-ut-Tahrir etc, they might have trouble sleeping in night these days.

And nice to see you blame it all on the poor and downtrodden people. How predictable.

 

[Jaanbaz]

there is no point in pointing fingers.. we both are quite similar... we got lucky because nehru and ambedkar made sure we got a good secular constitution. Although such tradition got eroded it still works against hindu rightwing extremism.

Constitution provides the nation which way it will move. Even Mr Modi will find it hard to get rid of India's secular constitution. We took a u turn in 50s when we become a ''Islamic'' state. It took Pakistanis ages for a new constitution. The current constitution is perhaps the worst in the world.

 

[karakoram]

I met him personally siraj ul haq is very nice personality unlike former ji amir munawar hassan who has soft corner for terrorists. Siraj ul haq is openly criticising TTP and also on same page with army on operation zarb a azab. After decades we see some change in JI in form of S.U.Haq

 

[Jaanbaz]

^^^^^ @TheFlyingPretzel

Whether they can succeed in Khilafat project is a different matter (IMO not possible). What matters is that there is a strong case and a strong base for such Utopian projects. Especially if you elites fail to give employment to the tens of millions of undereducated youth brought up on Islamic pseudohistory and pro-Jihad brainwashing.

I think your consolation is needed to the Shia-Ahmedi-Liberal sections of establishment who are looking at their colleagues supporting Hizb-ut-Tahrir etc, they might have trouble sleeping in night these days.

And nice to see you blame it all on the poor and downtrodden people. How predictable.

The Khilafat project in India was a failure before. Muslims were humiliated before and will happen again. I don't understand why Muslims like to shoot themselves. The political concept of Khilafat suited the Bedouins of 7th Century Arabia. In a pluralistic country like Pakistan it will turn into nothing but a huge failure and perhaps disintegration of Pakistan.

 

[Jaanbaz]

This is not some small town Mullah talking gibberish. This is Chief of Jamaat e Islami.

And one can not blame him for these dreams when you consider that:

1. Pakistan is soon going to be largest Muslim country. (No census in two decades, it is possible it already is; in Indonesia's only 80% population is Muslim )

2. Pakistan will soon be world's fourth most populous country.

3. Pakistan is a nuclear power. Only one in the Islamic world.

4. Pakistan has largest Military among the Islamic/Muslim countries.

5. Pakistan ruling class has always been fond of such larger than life dreams. They like to play great games with big boys. e.g. they proudly claim they defeated two superpowers. e.g Osama bin laden was found next to Military training academy in Pakistan. They have brainwashed people into these things even radicalizing the mainstream school text books. Large number of population believes in them.

6. There are clear signs that even in the new generation of the Pakistani elites there is a significant section that supports Pakistan becoming a radical and model Islamic state. e.g. couple of years ago there were some news leaks about a faction supporting Hizb-ut-Tahrir in Pakistan armed forces. e.g High level navy officers provided support to attack on Karachi dockyard attack.

7. Islam is not completely compatible with idea of dividing the Ummah into nation states.
According to many Islamic scholars, democracy is unislamic.
Most of the Muslim countries have mixed Islam with native culture. They are nationalistic and proud of their roots, including the Arabs.
Even Bangladesh, whose people and leaders made creation of Pakistan possible, made peace with their native Bengali roots.
Only Pakistan (i.e. the minority elite class which claims Arab-Central Asian origin to claim high caste status in Islamic caste system) has made strong efforts to strongly deny their native Indian identity and erase traces of native culture, and to instill the same beliefs in common people i.e. majority masses, by systematically brainwashing them, through government+madrassa education system.

So as Pakistanis becomes purer and purer Muslims, Pakistan has a strong case to claim to be a Pivot of Islamic Khilafah.

In conclusion, no need to ridicule Aamir of Jamaat e Islami. He is not insane. Large number, probably majority, of people of Pakistan believe the same. And they have a strong reason to hold such beliefs.

Hope this is not off topic.

As if Arabs are going to accept a Pakistani Caliph. Shia will support a Wahabi Caliph? Wahabis will support a Shia Imam? You see where this is going?

 

[livingdead]

Constitution provides the nation which way it will move. Even Mr Modi will find it hard to get rid of India's secular constitution. We took a u turn in 50s when we become a ''Islamic'' state. It took Pakistanis ages for a new constitution. The current constitution is perhaps the worst in the world.

true. I was pointing to the fact that its more of leadership failure. If we had a referendum most Indian might have voted for a hindu country. The idea of secularism came from liberal elites in congress, it did not come from grassroot.
Which is why you still see at personal level huge number of Indians are anything but secular.