Pakistan to be superpower centre of Khilafat in future - Sirajul Haq

[Jaanbaz]

true. I was pointing to the fact that its more of leadership failure. If we had a referendum most Indian might have voted for a hindu country. The idea of secularism came from liberal elites in congress, it did not come from grassroot.
Which is why you still see at personal level huge number of Indians are anything but secular.

That's pretty much the case in many countries.

Pakistan's Liberal elite is a dying breed. The rest are mostly hypocrites, some are openly supporting extremist elements.

 

[livingdead]

Great post . Just one suggestion though. I think it's the ultra-conservatives amongst the lower-middle class (urban) who think like this and not the 'poor' per se. The poor folk whether urban or rural are a Barelvi and very open-minded group most of the time. Moreover, the saffronisation that you talked about encapsulates pretty much all sections of Hindu society which is quite surprising and odd. I mean so many Hindus born in the West and seemingly liberal believe in these things down to the T. It's a shocker sometimes.

resurgence of hindutva is an identity issue.. not a religious issue. Its similar to jewish identity or ever confused black identity.
Its possible that an atheist hindu feels strong sense of belonging to his people. Savarkar was an atheist.

 

[mughal arslan shah mirza]

resurgence of hindutva is an identity issue.. not a religious issue. Its similar to jewish identity or ever confused black identity.
Its possible that an atheist hindu feels strong sense of belonging to his people. Savarkar was an atheist.

But this identity is closely interlinked with the religious-cultural expression of Hinduism. I doubt that many supporters of hindutva extremism are 'religious' in the strict sense and yet they support everything that comes from the mouth of hindutva leaders. This is what actually surprised me to be honest.

 

[Icewolf]

Lost all respect for PTI when they went into alliance with these psychopath Mullahs

 

[livingdead]

But this identity is closely interlinked with the religious-cultural expression of Hinduism. I doubt that many supporters of hindutva extremism are 'religious' in the strict sense and yet they support everything that comes from the mouth of hindutva leaders. This is what actually surprised me to be honest.

I dont see anything surprising. This is how identity works.
Lot of jews are atheists, they are in top positions in USA. Most of them will support Israel, its because of identity(made accute after holocaust) not because they literally believe they are chosen people of god.

Which is why movement based on islamic theology is different from hindutva. Hindutva is mostly reactionary, feeds on real or perceved wrong being done to your people, competes with other community to be equal to them.

If muslims get offended by mohammed's cartoon, why should we not be offended by Hussains painting of our goddess. Damn sure we will.. -- hindutva mind at work.

 

[haviZsultan]

I dont see anything surprising. This is how identity works.
Lot of jews are atheists, they are in top positions in USA. Most of them will support Israel, its because of identity(made accute after holocaust) not because they literally believe they are chosen people of god.

Which is why movement based on islamic theology is different from hindutva. Hindutva is mostly reactionary, feeds on real or perceved wrong being done to your people, competes with other community to be equal to them.

If muslims get offended by mohammed's cartoon, why should we not be offended by Hussains painting of our goddess. Damn sure we will.. -- hindutva mind at work.

In either case hurting religious ideas and beliefs should be avoided at all costs. But no one is more iconoclastic than us Muslims. We should learn to tolerate and let others live as they wish to live.

 

[Dushmann]

As if Arabs are going to accept a Pakistani Caliph. Shia will support a Wahabi Caliph? Wahabis will support a Shia Imam? You see where this is going?

It does not need to reach any destination. It can keep going and going and going............... = Anarchy.

This is a good opportunity for foreign intelligence agencies.

But I don't thing India can afford to enter the game directly. Because Pakistan is a neighbor. It is not a good idea to play with fire like this in your immediate neighborhood.

 

[livingdead]

In either case hurting religious ideas and beliefs should be avoided at all costs. But no one is more iconoclastic than us Muslims. We should learn to tolerate and let others live as they wish to live.

My point was hindutva tries to created a pan Indian (and now global may be) identity for hindus even though most hindus are different in culture/language/caste etc. Its kind of a brotherhood of hindus.
Hinduism itself does not help in having a communal feeling (compared to islam or sikhism), its more of a recent invention.
Now you cant have a brotherhood among a diverse group of people without 'them' who are different from 'us'.
Muslims (and increasingly christians) fit role of 'them' quite well.

 

[illusion8]

But this identity is closely interlinked with the religious-cultural expression of Hinduism. I doubt that many supporters of hindutva extremism are 'religious' in the strict sense and yet they support everything that comes from the mouth of hindutva leaders. This is what actually surprised me to be honest.

Talking of a Hindu rastra is akin to Pakistan being for Muslims and holding to it's Islamic identity - so is true with all Muslim nations, it's also true with Jews wanting Israel for Jews. i don't see how you would feel alarmed by that prospect. If Hindu nationalists want India as to have a Hindu rastra are extremists then Pakistani's wanting Pakistan to be an Islamic entity are extremists as well, or the Jews wanting Israel to hold on to it's Jewish identity, the West holding on to it's Christian white identity or the Communists, Socialists wanting to hold on to their respective identities are extremists too.

it's unfair to burden India with being only Indian when other nations in the world cater to their own unique identity.

 

[rockstar08]

Pakistani has no place for these mighty and superior Arabs , we will only be their slaves or fighters even if we come under their " Khilafat "

 

[Kompromat]

@Horus Any comments about this thread, Sir?

I as a Pakistani to my last breath shall never support JI. They were against the freedom of my people. Their role in the independance movement is zero. JI is a fascist organization which aims to ride a full grown horse rather than having to breed it. This is precisely why they have and will keep failing.

 

[rockstar08]

I as a Pakistani to my last breath shall never support JI. They were against the freedom of my people. Their role in the independance movement is zero. JI is a fascist organization which aims to ride a full grown horse rather than having to breed it. This is precisely why they have and will keep failing.

give yourself a +rating please

 

[SQ8]

resurgence of hindutva is an identity issue.. not a religious issue. Its similar to jewish identity or ever confused black identity.
Its possible that an atheist hindu feels strong sense of belonging to his people. Savarkar was an atheist.

I wouldn't call them Atheist. Rather Weekend Hardline Agnostic Hindus(pretty much summarized most Indian Hindus here).
Its less about whether they actually believe that Hanuman took his army across the Island Chain.. and more about ensuring that the credibility of that stays more than the idea of the proverbial winged horse taking the Prophet to heaven for Muslims.

 

[Bratva]

I wouldn't call them Atheist. Rather Weekend Hardline Agnostic Hindus(pretty much summarized most Indian Hindus here).
Its less about whether they actually believe that Hanuman took his army across the Island Chain.. and more about ensuring that the credibility of that stays more than the idea of the proverbial winged horse taking the Prophet to heaven for Muslims.

Likes of Q.U.Shahab, Ashfaq Ahmed, Mumtaz Mufti, Wasif Ali Wasif also believed Pakistan in it's current form would become a shangri la of muslim world in future and this Sindhi burecrate in list too

A bureaucrat’s witty mix of history and fiction – The Express Tribune

 

[SQ8]

Likes of Q.U.Shahab, Ashfaq Ahmed, Mumtaz Mufti, Wasif Ali Wasif also believed Pakistan in it's current form would become a shangri la of muslim world in future and this Sindhi burecrate in list too

A bureaucrat’s witty mix of history and fiction – The Express Tribune

Have you read the "Shahab Nama".. or the "Zawiya" series by Ashfaq Ahmen.. or the articles by Mumtaz Mufti to testify to that?

Because I recall those ideals of Shangrila coming with the clause in all of these narratives.. the clause being honesty and hardwork.