Pakistan: The ‘birth’ of a problem

[vsdoc]

Is it not ironic that for a country that was demanded and came into being on the basis of Islam, muslim natives cannot find it in their hearts to welcome their "muslim brothers" from the rest of the country and give them a different name "muhajir" and make them feel marginalised enough to try and seek a separate identity by forming a separate non-mainstream political party to represent their interest ..... in a country which they and their fathers "fought for generations for" as many of my Pakistani friends here have claimed. A rather poor reward for that fight and sacrifice I must say ..... and doesn't say much for Islamic brotherhood and the Two-Nation concept overall either.

On the other hand, look at the Punjabi refugees who came to India and see how they were looked after, assimilated, re-settled and look at how prosperous and forward that community is in India today.

That my friends has been India for millenia ...... a secular land with a big heart. That is also why the very concept of Pakistan was so abhorrent to the collective sensibility of the people of the land ..... from all faiths including Islam ..... and why they chose India over Pakistan. Which again goes to prove what I have said in an earlier post of mine ...... the ties and bonds of a shared land and culture and history are part of the collective unconscious of the people of a land and are much deeper, stronger, and primal forces than those of religious separatism.

Cheers, Doc

 

[vsdoc]

The other irony is Pakistanis claiming that they (their forefathers) fought for "Pakistan". What NONSENSE! They forget that the fight was for Independence from the British for whom (in spite of their final devious legacy) we were all one, as were we in our fight versus them. Were it not for the near permanent bad blood and dirty after-taste of the Partition, our freedom fighters were the same, as was the common enemy, as India together (including those of you who call yourself Pakistani today) fought and bled and went to jail and starved and died together, side by side. I addition to your Muslim freedom fighters, do you guys also read and learn about the Hindu and Sikh and Christian and Parsi freedom fighters to whom you owe your freedom and indeed your final separate nation Pakistan to? Or are they conveniently given secondary importance if at all, and largely forgotten in your race to distance yourselves from us? Was the battle cry of the war for Independence "Pakistan Zindabad" or was it "Bharat Mata ki Jai" ?

Sorry for getting emotional.

Cheers, Doc

 

[Spring Onion]

The other irony is Pakistanis claiming that they (their forefathers) fought for "Pakistan". What NONSENSE! They forget that the fight was for Independence from the British for whom (in spite of their final devious legacy) we were all one, as were we in our fight versus them. Were it not for the near permanent bad blood and dirty after-taste of the Partition, our freedom fighters were the same, as was the common enemy, as India together (including those of you who call yourself Pakistani today) fought and bled and went to jail and starved and died together, side by side. I addition to your Muslim freedom fighters, do you guys also read and learn about the Hindu and Sikh and Christian and Parsi freedom fighters to whom you owe your freedom and indeed your final separate nation Pakistan to? Or are they conveniently given secondary importance if at all, and largely forgotten in your race to distance yourselves from us? Was the battle cry of the war for Independence "Pakistan Zindabad" or was it "Bharat Mata ki Jai" ?

Sorry for getting emotional.

Cheers, Doc

Well our forefathers fought for Pakistan though it was not an armed struggle.
As far as independence from Britishers Yes it was fought by Muslims, Sikhs, Hindus, Parsis and so on.

But hey do you know RSS throughout that period had stood aside from freedom struggle.

It proves that fundamentalist Hindu elements dont have any share in freedom struggle.

 

[Spring Onion]

Is it not ironic that for a country that was demanded and came into being on the basis of Islam, muslim natives cannot find it in their hearts to welcome their "muslim brothers" from the rest of the country and give them a different name "muhajir" and make them feel marginalised enough to try and seek a separate identity by forming a separate non-mainstream political party to represent their interest ..... in a country which they and their fathers "fought for generations for" as many of my Pakistani friends here have claimed. A rather poor reward for that fight and sacrifice I must say ..... and doesn't say much for Islamic brotherhood and the Two-Nation concept overall either.

On the other hand, look at the Punjabi refugees who came to India and see how they were looked after, assimilated, re-settled and look at how prosperous and forward that community is in India today.

That my friends has been India for millenia ...... a secular land with a big heart. That is also why the very concept of Pakistan was so abhorrent to the collective sensibility of the people of the land ..... from all faiths including Islam ..... and why they chose India over Pakistan. Which again goes to prove what I have said in an earlier post of mine ...... the ties and bonds of a shared land and culture and history are part of the collective unconscious of the people of a land and are much deeper, stronger, and primal forces than those of religious separatism.

Cheers, Doc

Doc just a simple question India was not found on the basis of reigion so why there is so much ethnic rift there ? Why there is marhati langauge issue, why South doesnt embrass the North?

And why Indian Hindu majority even after 62 years failed to acccept Muslims as its citizens ??

Bad choice for Muslims to stay back isnt it ??

 

[blueoval79]

Well our forefathers fought for Pakistan though it was not an armed struggle.
As far as independence from Britishers Yes it was fought by Muslims, Sikhs, Hindus, Parsis and so on.

But hey do you know RSS throughout that period had stood aside from freedom struggle.

It proves that fundamentalist Hindu elements dont have any share in freedom struggle.

Well RSS was founded in 1925...

The Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh, also known as the Sangh or the RSS, is a Hindu revivalist organization in India. It was founded by Dr. K. B. Hedgewar, a doctor from Nagpur, as a cultural organisation in pre-independent India, with the aim of uniting Hindus against colonial powers.
The volunteers of the RSS participated in various political and social movements including the freedom movement, the Bhoodan, the Sarvoday and the movement for the restoration of democracy in India. The RSS volunteers are also known for their role in the relief and rehabilitation work during natural calamities and for running more than a hundred thousand service programs in education, health care, rural development, tribal emancipation and the rehabilitation of lepers, differently abled and special needs children. SO they did play a part in India independence..... though it was not as active as Congress and Muslim league...leaders claim. they did.


I think the Sangh lost direction and converted themselves to a Hardline Religious organization....

Well I don't know about Forefathers...but my grandfather did fight for Freedom of India .....and the idea of Pakistan was born when India was close to archive independence..

 

[Gin ka Pakistan]

word muhajir has religious association with Muslims, so it tells that they are good Muslims.

 

[blueoval79]

Doc just a simple question India was not found on the basis of reigion so why there is so much ethnic rift there ? Why there is marhati langauge issue, why South doesnt embrass the North?

And why Indian Hindu majority even after 62 years failed to acccept Muslims as its citizens ??

Bad choice for Muslims to stay back isnt it ??

Well answer is ....almost every country suffers from ethnic rifts...America to China...to India to Pakistan.... ethnic rifts will always be there......and America has been independent for past 200 plus yrs....Pakistan is as old as India...

 

[DaRk WaVe]

Well answer is ....almost every country suffers from ethnic rifts...America to China...to India to Pakistan.... ethnic rifts will always be there......and America has been independent for past 200 plus yrs....Pakistan is as old as India...

but blaming the tussle b/w different religious n ethnic factions in a country on other countries is not justified in any case...

 

[Spring Onion]

Well answer is ....almost every country suffers from ethnic rifts...America to China...to India to Pakistan.... ethnic rifts will always be there......and America has been independent for past 200 plus yrs....Pakistan is as old as India...

Yes thats the point i wanted mr doc to realise, the ethnic issues have nothing to do with creation of any country on any lines be it religiouse or otherwise.

 

[vsdoc]

Doc just a simple question India was not found on the basis of reigion so why there is so much ethnic rift there ? Why there is marhati langauge issue, why South doesnt embrass the North?

And why Indian Hindu majority even after 62 years failed to acccept Muslims as its citizens ??

Bad choice for Muslims to stay back isnt it ??

Jana what you describe .... Marathi manoos issue, North-South divide, and various other issues of "locals" getting violent and ganging up against "outsiders" are very real and something which is denounced by the vast majority of proud Indians. But they are not religious issues ..... but economic ones based on regional narrow-mindedness and indulged in as political tools ..... be it Maharashtra for the Marathi manoos, or Karnataka for the Kannadigas, or anyone from North of the Vindhyas being looked at with suspicion and hostility as "crude arrogant North Indians" by those south of the Vindhyas, or Dilli walle ganging up against Biharis and Bhaiyyas (UPites), etc. etc.

You need to remember that unlike you (to more or less a large extent) India has people of different religions, languages, cultures, festivals, clothes, food, languages, and even looks/color/features etc. Keeping all of them together, happy, united, and by and large peaceful, while continuing to grow the country together as one single unit, is not and has not been an easy task.

But we have done it and we are where we are today both because of it and in spite of it. Delicious irony indeed, but we would have it no other way.

You statement about the Muslims I do not agree with.

Cheers, Doc

 

[Spring Onion]

Well RSS was founded in 1925...

The Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh, also known as the Sangh or the RSS, is a Hindu revivalist organization in India. It was founded by Dr. K. B. Hedgewar, a doctor from Nagpur, as a cultural organisation in pre-independent India, with the aim of uniting Hindus against colonial powers.
The volunteers of the RSS participated in various political and social movements including the freedom movement, the Bhoodan, the Sarvoday and the movement for the restoration of democracy in India. The RSS volunteers are also known for their role in the relief and rehabilitation work during natural calamities and for running more than a hundred thousand service programs in education, health care, rural development, tribal emancipation and the rehabilitation of lepers, differently abled and special needs children. SO they did play a part in India independence..... though it was not as active as Congress and Muslim league...leaders claim. they did.


I think the Sangh lost direction and converted themselves to a Hardline Religious organization....

Well I don't know about Forefathers...but my grandfather did fight for Freedom of India .....and the idea of Pakistan was born when India was close to archive independence..

RSS is more than what you said but i would avoide posting on it as it will derail the thread.

Just wanted to say that RSS had never been part of freedom struggle.

And it was RSS and other Hindu elements like RSS that provided the basis for partition otherwise Jinnah was in favour of united India.

 

[Spring Onion]

Jana what you describe .... Marathi manoos issue, North-South divide, and various other issues of "locals" getting violent and ganging up against "outsiders" are very real and something which is denounced by the vast majority of proud Indians. But they are not religious issues ..... but economic ones based on regional narrow-mindedness and indulged in as political tools ..... be it Maharashtra for the Marathi manoos, or Karnataka for the Kannadigas, or anyone from North of the Vindhyas being looked at with suspicion and hostility as "crude arrogant North Indians" by those south of the Vindhyas, or Dilli walle ganging up against Biharis and Bhaiyyas (UPites), etc. etc.

You need to remember that unlike you (to more or less a large extent) India has people of different religions, languages, cultures, festivals, clothes, food, languages, and even looks/color/features etc. Keeping all of them together, happy, united, and by and large peaceful, while continuing to grow the country together as one single unit, is not and has not been an easy task.

But we have done it and we are where we are today both because of it and in spite of it. Delicious irony indeed, but we would have it no other way.

You statement about the Muslims I do not agree with.

Cheers, Doc

Doc smilarly sindhi, pathan, baloch, punjabi , urdu speaking ethnic sentiments in Pakistan are also not religious issues. Simple as that.

Just remember that twisiting same reason for others wont do any good to you.

 

[vsdoc]

Jana there should be NO religious issues in pakistan no?

That is what many Indians before me have pointed out and fail to understand.

After all, you wanted Pakistan ..... for Muslims ..... you got it.

Then what happened?

Cheers, Doc

 

[DbnReaper]

Your nations are so brutal. eiessh

 

[Gin ka Pakistan]

Jana there should be NO religious issues in pakistan no?

That is what many Indians before me have pointed out and fail to understand.

After all you wanted Pakistan ..... for Muslims ..... you got it.

Then what happened?

Cheers, Doc

We have a neighbor who never accepted us by heart and still is tiring to break us by putting fuel on the fire (Yes the fire is there because of our own mistakes).


Rahul Gandhi says, once the Gandhi family decides on something, it makes sure that is accomplished — whether it is throwing out the British, breaking up Pakistan or taking India into the 21st century.
He went on to add that India 'created and armed the Mukti Bahini', a Bengali militia which fought the Pakistani troops, 'just as it created and armed the Tamil Tigers in Sri Lanka' in the 1980s.