Pakistan: The ‘birth’ of a problem

[blueoval79]

i think you read only selective stuff. We had always called Muslims in India as Indian Muslims.

If we raise voice for their rights its not something strange because we also raise voice for Indian Dalits who are btw not Muslims.

The author of this write up failed to realise that those Muslims stayed back are still not accepted as Indians by your people.

The poor souls are still taunted with slogans like "Go back to Pakistan"

Well some Pakistanis do refer to Indian Muslims...Our Muslim brothers in India....don't they....

When was the last time Pakistan raised voice for Indian Dalits....Ahh I remember...Radio Pakistan....

No one can make them a Part of India ..if they don't want to be a part of it.......We have India Muslims who have achieved based on their hard work and skills...we have India Muslims in bad shape because they don't have the skills......why should whole India be blamed for that......

This slogan is thrown by some hardliners...just like hardliners in Pakistan use blasphemy laws...to brutally kill people....
Its a free country...if you want to go to other country we are happy to let you go.....but no one is pushing you out...

 

[blueoval79]

Blueoval let me post something for you. I think you can read hindi text.

Dainik Sanatan Prabhat (Marathi)

And bellow is the translation and comments by editor of this paper or whatever it is at a website being run by a Hindu organisation that is committed to Hindu cause and anti-Islam.

Indian Muslims celebrate Pakistan's victory in cricket
June 26, 2009

Ashadh Shuddha Chaturthi

Kakanwada (Dist. Buldhana): The ‘Twenty -20’ world cup cricket tournament recently held in England was won by Pakistan. Muslims from Kakanwada, taluka Sangrampur celebrated the victory of Pakistan by bursting crackers and raising slogans of ‘Pakistan Zindabad’. (All these Muslims should immediately leave India and go to Pakistan. Hindus should note the anti-nationalism of these Muslims! – Editor SP)

Hindus got enraged with this incident and lodged a complaint with the police. (Hindus should realize that if such incident had taken place in Pakistan and had Hindus burst crackers after India winning the tournament; would Pakistani Muslims have bothered to lodge a complaint with the police?- Editor SP)

Police did not take any action for 2 days. (Owing to such pro-Muslim police force, many undeclared mini Pakistans have come up in different parts of the country. Why should Hindus pay taxes and feed such policemen? – Editor SP) Twenty one members of Bajarang Dal and Vishwa Hindu Parishada, therefore, registered their protest by shaving their heads. (Will such protests have any effect on Muslims? Hindus expect Bajarang Dal to take some appropriate action to prove its name as ‘Bajarang’! – Editor SP)
Source: Dainik sanatan Prabhat (Dainik Sanatan Prabhat (Marathi))

Indian Muslims celebrate Pakistan's victory in cricket - General | hindujagruti.org

So you want to blame whole India ....just because ....a newspaper ...whose circulation is not even in on state....had this article....

By the way...the answer to your post is in your poste itself...

"Would Pakistan encourage Pakistani Hindus...to Show off indian Flags...and burst crackers ..and support India...Publically....


The answer is big no....probably those guys will be jailed ......and tagged Indian Spies....

 

[Spring Onion]

So you want to blame whole India ....just because ....a newspaper ...whose circulation is not even in on state....had this article....

By the way...the answer to your post is in your poste itself...

"Would Pakistan encourage Pakistani Hindus...to Show off indian Flags...and burst crackers ..and support India...Publically....


The answer is big no....probably those guys will be jailed ......and tagged Indian Spies....

The question is why Indian Muslims resort to showing off or waiving Pakistani flags ??? Not only over victory of match by Pakistan but in Assam too, why?

Was that due to partion or is the due to Indian apathy towards problems of Indian Muslims and discrimination of Muslims.

And let me tell you this was just one example i have posted. There are many and the papers also not some unknown ones unlike the above.

BTw our youth many times celeberated Indian victory in cricket it doesnt mean they should be taunted to go to India.

 

[Spring Onion]

Well some Pakistanis do refer to Indian Muslims...Our Muslim brothers in India....don't they....

When was the last time Pakistan raised voice for Indian Dalits....Ahh I remember...Radio Pakistan....

No one can make them a Part of India ..if they don't want to be a part of it.......We have India Muslims who have achieved based on their hard work and skills...we have India Muslims in bad shape because they don't have the skills......why should whole India be blamed for that......

This slogan is thrown by some hardliners...just like hardliners in Pakistan use blasphemy laws...to brutally kill people....
Its a free country...if you want to go to other country we are happy to let you go.....but no one is pushing you out...

lolzz what is wrong with calling our Muslim Brothers in INDIA.

Being Muslims we call all the Muslims as our brothers arround the world.

As far as raising voice for dalits well be it radio Pakistan or individuals like me or other members, we do get hurt by their plight.

 

[blueoval79]

The question is why Indian Muslims resort to showing off or waiving Pakistani flags ??? Not only over victory of match by Pakistan but in Assam too, why?

Was that due to partion or is the due to Indian apathy towards problems of Indian Muslims and discrimination of Muslims.

And let me tell you this was just one example i have posted. There are many and the papers also not some unknown ones unlike the above.

BTw our youth many times celeberated Indian victory in cricket it doesnt mean they should be taunted to go to India.

The reason could be mix of both.. they feel ignored......(damn India Politics....and I personally hate that.....)....and these display of flags could be the reason they may have been taunted to leave India and leave for Pakistan...I am not sure about display in Assam..as the reports are not confirmed...just blog entries and some You tube videos.....

I repeat... Indian Muslims....are a part of India...and they have opportunities..based on their skills...now its up to them to acquire skills and grab opportunities and capitalize on them.... no one is going to offer them free lunches....no one does in the whole wide world....

 

[Spring Onion]

The reason could be mix of both.. they feel ignored......(damn India Politics....and I personally hate that.....)....and these display of flags could be the reason they may have been taunted to leave India and leave for Pakistan...I am not sure about display in Assam..as the reports are not confirmed...just blog entries and some You tube videos.....

I repeat... Indian Muslims....are a part of India...and they have opportunities..based on their skills...now its up to them to acquire skills and grab opportunities and capitalize on them.... no one is going to offer them free lunches....no one does in the whole wide world....

Now i think we are talking sense.

So that is the point. The problems of Indian Muslims are outcome of dirty politics in India besides centuries old bias and hate for Muslims specially when the ruling parties one way or the other are linked to old doctrine of "Hindutva"

Their bad condition is not linked to creation of Pakistan. Many problems in many states of India i.e Assam, or seven sisters are not at all outcome of partition because these are based on ethnicity issues whereas case of Pakistan is different.


The display of Pakistani flags is recent phenomenon whereas taunting Indian Muslims by their other non-Muslim fellows is continued for the last 62 years.


About the videos of Pakistani flag hoisting well there is nothing doubtful about that it was shown by Indian news channels clearly.

 

[blueoval79]

Now i think we are talking sense.

So that is the point. The problems of Indian Muslims are outcome of dirty politics in India besides centuries old bias and hate for Muslims specially when the ruling parties one way or the other are linked to old doctrine of "Hindutva"

Their bad condition is not linked to creation of Pakistan. Many problems in many states of India i.e Assam, or seven sisters are not at all outcome of partition because these are based on ethnicity issues whereas case of Pakistan is different.


The display of Pakistani flags is recent phenomenon whereas taunting Indian Muslims by their other non-Muslim fellows is continued for the last 62 years.


About the videos of Pakistani flag hoisting well there is nothing doubtful about that it was shown by Indian news channels clearly.

The century old biases are both ways....Muslim Rules in India caused enough damage to India like Hindu rulers in the past.....

Anti each others religion is a philosophy for every religion....anyone who is not a member of your religion is not easily accepted....and its everywhere ...and every religion.....even in so called Peace loving Christianity...


The conditions of Indian Muslims have stayed the same if not worsened because of Pakistan's creation....because there has been regular troubles with Pakistan...and because Pakistan was created on basis of Religion...and its a fairly recent phenomenon....and there is a generation of Indians and Pakistanis who blame each other for partition of Mainland India........couple it with 3 wars we have fought and the situation gets murky....

And don't only blame Indians or so called Hindus for that....both sides share equal blame....

I am no one to comment on what Muslims need to do to be accepted as Indian ...and what Indian Government has to do to make sure that Muslims feel a part of India...but situation as on today is ....Muslims don't feel that they are a part of India....and India still thinks that Muslims do not want to become a part of India.....

Blame Indian Muslim leaders for that.......they have not been able to nurture the right kind of community sentiments in India Muslims somehow...otherwise tell why do Muslims need a Congress ...they can very well support a political party of their own...and move forward.........but vested interests of these Muslim politicians don't let that happen.

 

[Omar1984]

The reason could be mix of both.. they feel ignored......(damn India Politics....and I personally hate that.....)....and these display of flags could be the reason they may have been taunted to leave India and leave for Pakistan...I am not sure about display in Assam..as the reports are not confirmed...just blog entries and some You tube videos.....

I believe this is an Indian news channel reporting on a Pakistani flag being hoisted in Assam.

 

[Patriot]

The century old biases are both ways....Muslim Rules in India caused enough damage to India like Hindu rulers in the past.....

Anti each others religion is a philosophy for every religion....anyone who is not a member of your religion is not easily accepted....and its everywhere ...and every religion.....even in so called Peace loving Christianity...


The conditions of Indian Muslims have stayed the same if not worsened because of Pakistan's creation....because there has been regular troubles with Pakistan...and because Pakistan was created on basis of Religion...and its a fairly recent phenomenon....and there is a generation of Indians and Pakistanis who blame each other for partition of Mainland India........couple it with 3 wars we have fought and the situation gets murky....

And don't only blame Indians or so called Hindus for that....both sides share equal blame....

I am no one to comment on what Muslims need to do to be accepted as Indian ...and what Indian Government has to do to make sure that Muslims feel a part of India...but situation as on today is ....Muslims don't feel that they are a part of India....and India still thinks that Muslims do not want to become a part of India.....

Blame Indian Muslim leaders for that.......they have not been able to nurture the right kind of community sentiments in India Muslims somehow...otherwise tell why do Muslims need a Congress ...they can very well support a political party of their own...and move forward.........but vested interests of these Muslim politicians don't let that happen.

Dude stop pulling statements out of your rear.No Generation of Pakistanis regret Independence.I have read many books on Independence.There were people who lost their wives, mothers during migration but despite this on reaching Pakistan they were extremely happy.I have also read books of Pakistan earlier service chief who were originally in INdian Army and they all say that the partition was best thing ever happened and they did not mind fighting Indian Army.Also, bigoted hindus played role in paritation as well by disturbing Muslims all the time in India.Also read in Book of AM Zafar Ch.He was then in INdian Air Force he said few hindu pilots said they would assassinate all Muslim Leaders and of course no need to mention that Indian dream of Akhand Bharat will continue till the cows come home... The destruction of Akahad Bharat is something that will continue to haunt you people till eternity..

 

[blueoval79]

Dude stop pulling statements out of your rear.No Generation of Pakistanis regret Independence.I have read many books on Independence.There were people who lost their wives, mothers during migration but despite this on reaching Pakistan they were extremely happy.I have also read books of Pakistan earlier service chief who were originally in INdian Army and they all say that the partition was best thing ever happened and they did not mind fighting Indian Army.Also, bigoted hindus played role in paritation as well by disturbing Muslims all the time in India.Also read in Book of AM Zafar Ch.He was then in INdian Air Force he said few hindu pilots said they would assassinate all Muslim Leaders and of course no need to mention that Indian dream of Akhand Bharat will continue till the cows come home... The destruction of Akahad Bharat is something that will continue to haunt you people till eternity..

Ignored......please carry on with your BS......

 

[blueoval79]

I believe this is an Indian news channel reporting on a Pakistani flag being hoisted in Assam.

1B60_gPf0Ro[/media] - Pakistan Flag Hoisted in Assam - India Launches Propaganda

If this video is from the source ..it says it is...TIMES NOW TV...why does it not show up in TIMES NOW achieve.......Why no one has ever posted a link to Times Now Website.....

I made a search on times now TV website...Pakistani Flags Hoisted in Assam...and Guess what I got.....
3 Videos....all related to Pakistani Terrorists....

http://www.timesnow.tv/10-Pakistani-arrested-for-Qaeda-link/videoshow/4312499.cms

http://www.timesnow.tv/Pakistani-tunnel-found-on-Indian-side/videoshow/4324044.cms

http://www.timesnow.tv/Confessions-of-a-Pakistani-terrorist/videoshow/4314522.cms

No traces of Any Assam news....

So this you tube video is a Hoax....Anti India Propaganda ......eh...

Stop watching Youtube...

 

[graphican]

Title of article is justified in one sense. One staying at the other side of the border would see Pakistan as a starting point of countless problems for India. If you get Manmohan Singh on that, you would see he is speaking of the same "problem". Creation of Pakistan was presumed to be a solution for the people of India that Muslims of India would stay in their own homeland and differences of two nations would be settled once and for all. Pakistan has now been created but India is in the same situation that had become reason of Partition. There are nearly 230 Million Muslims in India and they are more in number than Muslims in Pakistan. An entire new country for the Muslims has been created and Muslims are still more in number in India than Pakistan. It is less intense but India is trying to solve same problems even after letting part of its country go away as an attempt to solve them.

Migraine for India is now to find solution of this Hindu-Muslim hatred in India after partition. Pakistan was created in the name of Islam as separate homeland for Muslims and that is the reason we see Hindus blaming Muslims in India for the Problems they face from Pakistan. Bond of Patriotism hasn’t proven a success for India as yet. Hindus in Pakistan are very low in number and that's why we do not see a mirror of what we see happening in India. Had we had 13% of Hindu population here in Pakistan, we might have been facing something similar at this side of the border as well. Islam guarantees safety of non-hostile non-Muslims but our society is not an Ideal Islamic society and we still carry an equal amount of hatred for Hindus and Sikhs somewhere Inside. It’s a blessings for Pakistan that we are a homogeneous nation and every Pakistani is an equal Pakistani. On the other hand, heterogeneous society of India behaves differently. Hindus are usually polite on Muslims and treat them as Indians but if something stirs up, they both go back to their hatred of 1947.

 

[Spring Onion]

The century old biases are both ways....Muslim Rules in India caused enough damage to India like Hindu rulers in the past.....

The Muslim rulers were almost all outsiders, it happens in expansionanist movements. So if you punish your Native Indian Muslims, your own citizens for those outsiders' or invaders' deeds and actions then i think you are only doing injustice to your own country.

The conditions of Indian Muslims have stayed the same if not worsened because of Pakistan's creation....because there has been regular troubles with Pakistan...and because Pakistan was created on basis of Religion...and its a fairly recent phenomenon....and there is a generation of Indians and Pakistanis who blame each other for partition of Mainland India........couple it with 3 wars we have fought and the situation gets murky....

why to punish your own Muslim citizens for having troubles with Pakistan? havent these Muslims tried to prove loyalities to India? I think they did by staying back and by criticising Pakistan in times of war or any such trouble. Now the onus is on you Indians to pay them back not punish them.

I am no one to comment on what Muslims need to do to be accepted as Indian ...and what Indian Government has to do to make sure that Muslims feel a part of India...but situation as on today is ....Muslims don't feel that they are a part of India....and India still thinks that Muslims do not want to become a part of India.....

why not. I think its educated people like you who can change the situation by accepting that Muslims are being discriminated in India and by raising voice for them instead of blaming it on Pakistan.

If you can search the net and post articles demonising Pakistan why not to write and suggest some solutions to Indian Muslims' problems.

If Indian Muslims and India do not feel so for each other than its loss of Indian democracy.

Blame Indian Muslim leaders for that.......they have not been able to nurture the right kind of community sentiments in India Muslims somehow...otherwise tell why do Muslims need a Congress ...they can very well support a political party of their own...and move forward.........but vested interests of these Muslim politicians don't let that happen.

How many Muslim leaders do you have in India who can be called truely leaders of Muslims?

I feel Indian Muslims need to understand power of their vote and should form one national level Muslim Political party to get their rights otherwise they will be doomed like they are at the moment.

 

[blueoval79]

The Muslim rulers were almost all outsiders, it happens in expansionanist movements. So if you punish your Native Indian Muslims, your own citizens for those outsiders' or invaders' deeds and actions then i think you are only doing injustice to your own country.
why to punish your own Muslim citizens for having troubles with Pakistan? havent these Muslims tried to prove loyalities to India? I think they did by staying back and by criticising Pakistan in times of war or any such trouble. Now the onus is on you Indians to pay them back not punish them.

Now if I say that Indians (and I mean most of us)...do not discriminate against Muslims...you are not going to believe me...we have 4 Muslims in my team of 10....and they participate in each and every event equally...without any religious bias...and I am happy to see them participate.....

No one is punishing anyone here...apart from some Incidents ....mostly politically motivated...to win majority vote...and whole world knows that...but somehow Pakistani community does not want to believe that....and now see the fate of these communal parties..they have lost their ground in India...they are fighting amongst themselves......they are discarded....by modern Indian....

If Indian Muslims and India do not feel so for each other than its loss of Indian democracy.

If I say India Government is doing multiple things to bring up Muslim community..no one is going to believe me.....I will again say lack of leaders...nothing else......

A man with no vision is nothing...a community without a vision is a group of Nothings....


The communication and the confidence building measures have to happen from both sides....

If muslims want to participate in countries growth...they have to come up ...learn...acquire skills....and capitalize on opportunities....

How many Muslim leaders do you have in India who can be called truely leaders of Muslims?

I feel Indian Muslims need to understand power of their vote and should form one national level Muslim Political party to get their rights otherwise they will be doomed like they are at the moment.

You are right...there is no Muslim leader..of the stature of Jinnah...(I know Indian posters may not like this) who can have a vision for community.....the existing leaders are too...moronic ...too self centered...too pessimists...and they will make sure that Indian Muslim does not move an Inch...because an Uneducated man is easy to tame...........

India Muslim has to make the most of the opportunity in front of him.... GOI offers free primary education for everyone... there are quotas for Minorities in Collages.........go get educated....teach your kids......make them a learned citizens....and then change will happen.....not by blaming...anyone...

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Title of article is justified in one sense. One staying at the other side of the border would see Pakistan as a starting point of countless problems for India.

And India and her leadership had a lot to create that situation as well - had Nehru stuck to his pledge of holding a plebiscite in J&K, we may very well have been further along in pursuing an economic trading bloc under the banner of SAARC.

There are nearly 230 Million Muslims in India and they are more in number than Muslims in Pakistan.

That's completely false. India's Muslim population is the worlds third largest, behind Indonesia and Pakistan.

The 2001 census calculated India's Mulsim population at 138 million, and is estimated at 150 million for 2008 (per wiki on the estimate).

Pakistan's population was 132 million in 1998, and estimated at 180 million in 2009 (we are scheduled for a census this year or the next so we should find out for sure).

The CIA fact-book has these estimates:

Pakistan: 176,242,949 (July 2009 est.)
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/pk.html

India Total population:1,166,079,217 (July 2009 est.)

Islam 13.4% of total: 156 million