Pakistan tests Ghauri Missile

[Bilal.]

There is no problem without a solution, one just needs to think outside the box.
I have a wild idea, it may or may not work but that needs to be tested. How about using a ballistic or cruise missile as a launch vehicle to carry and release hundreds of very small suicide drones (as in the vid) with very small explosives (but not three grams) to attack the defensive target. Let s see which S400 or AD battery can deal with that.

Exactly what I have been thinking. Swarm of cheap suicide drones.

 

[Thorough Pro]

and you think Chaghi preparations were done after Indian tests?

Yaar tumlog thakte nahin? From all that self back patting?
View attachment 504604

The Pokhran 2 tests were planned way before 1998, before even Ghauri was tested.
US satellites had detected activity at the Pokhran test sites way back in 1995.
http://nuclearweaponarchive.org/India/IndiaMomentum.html

Did you see the vid? what was that a CGI?

This technology doesn't exist today.

 

[CriticalThought]

and you think Chaghi preparations were done after Indian tests?






Did you see the vid? what was that a CGI?

Look at the very end of the video. This is a propaganda video by a lobbyist trying to sway popular perception against autonomous kill drones.

Now, I am not saying that this technology cannot exist. It is possible somewhere in a secret lab some preliminary form also exists. But, based on current status of publicly available technology:

1. There are no batteries available that would give a long endurance to such a system at the high speeds at which it was moving.

2. Release from aircraft means the tiny drone needs to be able to find lift in rarefied air. There are question marks around the ability of heli drones to find lift at high altitude.

3. The person claims the drones can force themselves across any barrier. Such intelligent aggregate behavior doesn't exist today without centralized command, and again raises the question of power.

That said, the basic function of facial recognition and then flying towards the target is approx equivalent to what can be achieved if an iPhone were controlling the drone. But if you add the requirement of killing, no one trusts facial recognition for that.

 

[Thorough Pro]

I have watched the whole video some three times. That is not a propaganda video. Because there are taboos associated with government killing people, he is just trying to sell the idea and make people believe (misguide them in to believing) that they/common people don't have to fear it its only to kill "Bad People".

Things are not invented and then put to use. The need of a new thing/tech arises because of a some specific requirements and then research is done to create / invent them. If its demoed, that means it exists or will be available pretty soon and put to test. Who knows if they have already tested a sample of these on one of so many killing grounds they have created around the world?

Look at the very end of the video. This is a propaganda video by a lobbyist trying to sway popular perception against autonomous kill drones.

Now, I am not saying that this technology cannot exist. It is possible somewhere in a secret lab some preliminary form also exists. But, based on current status of publicly available technology:

1. There are no batteries available that would give a long endurance to such a system at the high speeds at which it was moving.

2. Release from aircraft means the tiny drone needs to be able to find lift in rarefied air. There are question marks around the ability of heli drones to find lift at high altitude.

3. The person claims the drones can force themselves across any barrier. Such intelligent aggregate behavior doesn't exist today without centralized command, and again raises the question of power.

That said, the basic function of facial recognition and then flying towards the target is approx equivalent to what can be achieved if an iPhone were controlling the drone. But if you add the requirement of killing, no one trusts facial recognition for that.

 

[CriticalThought]

I have watched the whole video some three times. That is not a propaganda video. Because there are taboos associated with government killing people, he is just trying to sell the idea and make people believe (misguide them in to believing) that they/common people don't have to fear it its only to kill "Bad People".

Things are not invented and then put to use. The need of a new thing/tech arises because of a some specific requirements and then research is done to create / invent them. If its demoed, that means it exists or will be available pretty soon and put to test. Who knows if they have already tested a sample of these on one of so many killing grounds they have created around the world?

Mate, I am all for creativity and out of the box thinking, but I don't like fairy tales. Here is the full video

It is public awareness by a certain focus group. This video is not proof that such a technology exists today.

 

[Thorough Pro]

Yesterdays fairy tales are todays everyday use objects.
What part of the technology demoed in the vid does not exist today?
Drones?
Cameras?
Face recognition?
explosives?
Autonomous flying?
Complex algorithms?
Artificial intelligence?

And if something component/technology does not exist today, what stops research and development work on it?
If you think otherwise, then that's ok with me, lets agree to disagree.

Mate, I am all for creativity and out of the box thinking, but I don't like fairy tales. Here is the full video

It is public awareness by a certain focus group. This video is not proof that such a technology exists today.

 

[CriticalThought]

Yesterdays fairy tales are todays everyday use objects.
What part of the technology demoed in the vid does not exist today?
Drones?
Cameras?
Face recognition?
explosives?
Autonomous flying?
Complex algorithms?
Artificial intelligence?

And if something component/technology does not exist today, what stops research and development work on it?
If you think otherwise, then that's ok with me, lets agree to disagree.

That Chinese show wasn't autonomous behaviour

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...illuminated-drones-night-sky-record-breaking/

Like Intel's display, the drones, which were fitted with different coloured LED lights and were controlled by a single computer, with routes pre-programmed.

The main problem is the power pack to give endurance to such a tiny machine. I am not saying it isn't possible, I am only saying that video is not the proof.

Should Pakistan invest in such R&D? Yes!!! Does it solve our problems with S-400? Not entirely. As I have explained multiple times on the forum, the S-400 will cause degradation to our response to any major airborne first attack by India. In a cold start type scenario, time will be of essence. Plus, if the S-400 takes down your bomber/missile carrying the drones before they can be released, then what? This is not a substitute for a good air defence system.

 

[Thorough Pro]

I did not say that posted video was the exact solution, I posted that just as an idea of how multiple small attack vehicles can overwhelm any defensive systems.

What's the max ceiling for an S400? you can release the drones above that ceiling and let the gravity take them down to a certain height where they become active and attack from all directions, whether they are palm sized or an RC plane sized is not the issue, plus you don't have to take out all the missiles just focus on the tracking and search radars, take them out and missiles can be taken out by subsequent attacks by air assets or more missiles.
It's not easy, nothing ever is easy, but nothing is impossible either. Look at the evolution of all weapons systems beginning from simple planes with pilot dropping bombs with his hands to Ack Ack to early radars and missiles and counter measures. Its a constant never ending race and evolution. Every defensive /offensive weapon gives rise to an even advanced counter measure. The thing is you don't give up, you think outside the box, invest in R&D and come up with a solution.

I agree that S400 will degrade our response and reduces the nuclear deterrence. Once India is sure that they can handle our missile attack they will get emboldened and that is why it is very critical and important for Pakistan to come up with an ingenious and cheap solution to counter this threat.

This threat is as grave for China as for Pakistan. Chinese already have very advanced knowledge in AI and drone technology, we don't have to do it alone, we can partner with them in research, ideas and solutions.

That Chinese show wasn't autonomous behaviour

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...illuminated-drones-night-sky-record-breaking/



The main problem is the power pack to give endurance to such a tiny machine. I am not saying it isn't possible, I am only saying that video is not the proof.

Should Pakistan invest in such R&D? Yes!!! Does it solve our problems with S-400? Not entirely. As I have explained multiple times on the forum, the S-400 will cause degradation to our response to any major airborne first attack by India. In a cold start type scenario, time will be of essence. Plus, if the S-400 takes down your bomber/missile carrying the drones before they can be released, then what? This is not a substitute for a good air defence system.

 

[CriticalThought]

I did not say that posted video was the exact solution, I posted that just as an idea of how multiple small attack vehicles can overwhelm any defensive systems.

What's the max ceiling for an S400? you can release the drones above that ceiling and let the gravity take them down to a certain height where they become active and attack from all directions, whether they are palm sized or an RC plane sized is not the issue, plus you don't have to take out all the missiles just focus on the tracking and search radars, take them out and missiles can be taken out by subsequent attacks by air assets or more missiles.
It's not easy, nothing ever is easy, but nothing is impossible either. Look at the evolution of all weapons systems beginning from simple planes with pilot dropping bombs with his hands to Ack Ack to early radars and missiles and counter measures. Its a constant never ending race and evolution. Every defensive /offensive weapon gives rise to an even advanced counter measure. The thing is you don't give up, you think outside the box, invest in R&D and come up with a solution.

I hope we have the kind of R&D infrastructure in Pakistan that is needed for this level of miniaturization. But we don't even have proper semiconductor fabrication facilities, let alone the low power processing chips needed in such an application.

 

[Thorough Pro]

You responded before I edited my post.

I hope we have the kind of R&D infrastructure in Pakistan that is needed for this level of miniaturization. But we don't even have proper semiconductor fabrication facilities, let alone the low power processing chips needed in such an application.

 

[CriticalThought]

You responded before I edited my post.

The Chinese recently tested a hypersonic aircraft. Now that's the kind of offense which will leave S-400 along with the entire Indian air defence in the dust.

 

[Thorough Pro]

Though that would be ideal but it is still in test phase and I don't think china is going to share that tech with anyone anytime soon and even if they did that is going to cost a fortune.

The main difference between offensive and defensive strategies/weapon systems is that no defense is ever going to last forever, the luck always favours offense despite some initial setbacks. The key is willingness to come on top, perseverance and a fighting mindset.

The Chinese recently tested a hypersonic aircraft. Now that's the kind of offense which will leave S-400 along with the entire Indian air defence in the dust.

 

[ziaulislam]

Pakistan today tested Ghauri Missile which has a range of 1300 KM.

i was thinking that Ghauri is liquid based and is being phased out..i am surpised we testing them

 

[Thorough Pro]

A missile test is not showing a match to the missile fuse and watching it fly and land on target, It is NOT just the hardware "missile" test.

When they test operational readiness (as in this case) they are more focussed on testing the smooth working of command and control structure. How the orders are communicated, decoded, verified, cross verified, entering target coordinates in mission computers, entering passcodes for launch sequence, verification of pass codes, then the whole launch sequence itself etc.

@The Deterrent shouldn't we be testing Ababeel , Babur , Ra'ad , and Nasr with longer range ??

 

[MimophantSlayer]

Exactly what I have been thinking. Swarm of cheap suicide drones.

Well, there are cheaper ways to take out cheap drones.

http://www.thedrive.com/aerial/11505/the-7-most-significant-anti-drone-weapons