Pakistan terms US decision to sell air defence weapon system to India disturbing: ET

[Pakistani Fighter]

This offer could be a political move to drag us back to tables to compromise CPEC, Afg Peace talks and pressurize us into actually buying F-15 against Rafales.

I think that member did mentioned that move was to stop Project AZM.

 

[Haris Ali2140]

I have this strange but weak theory, built on the basis of rumours.

Some member here suggested a few days ago that Usa actually offered us F-15 during PM visit to USA in july (june or whatever).

But there were some serious conditions which led to us ignoring the deals completely. This offer could be a political move to drag us back to tables to compromise CPEC, Afg Peace talks and pressurize us into actually buying F-15 against Rafales. There is no doubt that if India actually gets F-15, a whole other level panic will be created. However, I believe that it is impossible that India will buy these Eagles, they already have huge fleet of Dual Engine MKIs and also going the Rafale route.
MRCA tender was for medium weight, single engine preferred fighters. F-15 doesn’t fit in, but one can also consider what a deal of just 30-40 F-15s initially can provide to india in terms of technology as well as in longer terms the support to integrate future weapons of USA which are always promising

India ain't getting F-15s. They already have SU 30 to fill that role.

 

[StormBreaker]

India ain't getting F-15s. They already have SU 30 to fill that role.

That’s what i believe, but then, F-15 has got much much to offer which will give complete superiority to Iaf, don’t be surprised if this actually happens

 

[Haris Ali2140]

That’s what i believe, but then, F-15 has got much much to offer which will give complete superiority to Iaf, don’t be surprised if this actually happens

This superiority can also be offered by upgrading SU 30s and Rafaels. Buying F 15s means a new platform with completely new armaments, logistics and training. At the moment Indian military is already cutting on its new procurements due to lack of funds (as per Indian news).

 

[StormBreaker]

This superiority can also be offered by upgrading SU 30s and Rafaels. Buying F 15s means a new platform with completely new armaments, logistics and training. At the moment Indian military is already cutting on its new procurements due to lack of funds (as per Indian news).

You are missing my point, they have been again and again glorifying AMRAAMs after 27 Feb, what makes you think they wouldn’t want advanced variants if AMRAAM for themselves ? Even more advanced than the ones at PAF

 

[Haris Ali2140]

You are missing my point, they have been again and again glorifying AMRAAMs after 27 Feb, what makes you think they wouldn’t want advanced variants if AMRAAM for themselves ? Even more advanced than the ones at PAF

We go to Chinese then.

 

[anathema]

RCS is not the concern, there is a very high chance that PAF and IAF might engage in a WVR combat, how do you plan to counter that ? JHCMS, Advanced HOB missiles of USA, F-15s will be complimented by more F-15s as well as Rafale and possibly MKIs, do you know how serious a threat it is ? And if F-15 takes place and yet we keep on blabbering about Block 3 then congrats to our acceptance of Suicides. If F-15 happens, We must as an emergency procure J-20s and J-10s. That is the only reasonable counter to IAF. Block 3 is no doubt a very promising fighter but the threat of the trio of MKIs, Eagles and Rafales is too much for the new one to handle.

There is absolutely no need to worry. India will not procure F15. India cannot afford a fighter with opex for $22,000 per flying hour. It already has Su 30 and Rafale which will consume significant opex.

 

[Crusher]

Giving deadly US weapons in the hands of gangu modi is indeed pathetic.

 

[Smoke]

RCS is not the concern, there is a very high chance that PAF and IAF might engage in a WVR combat, how do you plan to counter that ? JHCMS, Advanced HOB missiles of USA, F-15s will be complimented by more F-15s as well as Rafale and possibly MKIs, do you know how serious a threat it is ? And if F-15 takes place and yet we keep on blabbering about Block 3 then congrats to our acceptance of Suicides. If F-15 happens, We must as an emergency procure J-20s and J-10s. That is the only reasonable counter to IAF. Block 3 is no doubt a very promising fighter but the threat of the trio of MKIs, Eagles and Rafales is too much for the new one to handle.

Block 3? Where'd that come from. I'm talking about the Viper (F-16).

You do realize that when it comes to WVR, The F-16 & F-15 are almost equal (F16 having the advantage)? If it will be a sustained flight the F-16 will out-maneuver the Eagle, if it is slow speed flight, the F-15 will take the F-16. PILOT SKILL WILL BE THE DECIDING FACTOR.

The difference in avionics is now diminished. The really big plus point is the humongous, awesome firepower of the eagle.

--- that aside, yes the situation is indeed grave.

F-15EX is a 5th generation alternative design. Not to be compared with 4th generation options.

Only F-16 Block 70/72 is close.

Correct - I was referring to the Viper block 70/72.

 

[StormBreaker]

Block 3? Where'd that come from. I'm talking about the Viper (F-16).

You do realize that when it comes to WVR, The F-16 & F-15 are almost equal (F16 having the advantage)? If it will be a sustained flight the F-16 will out-maneuver the Eagle, if it is slow speed flight, the F-15 will take the F-16. PILOT SKILL WILL BE THE DECIDING FACTOR.

The difference in avionics is now diminished. The really big plus point is the humongous, awesome firepower of the eagle.

--- that aside, yes the situation is indeed grave.



Correct - I was referring to the Viper block 70/72.

My dear,

WVR and all this “F-16 vs F-15” are the talks of just exercises. F-15 is deadly enough in terms of BVR that i find it hard for our F-16s to even get the chance to engage them in WVR, we are stuck at Block 52 and AIM-120 C5. Not unless we get either V or AIM-120D specifically for our vipers, F-16s would be a history of PAF.

 

[Smoke]

My dear,

WVR and all this “F-16 vs F-15” are the talks of just exercises. F-15 is deadly enough in terms of BVR that i find it hard for our F-16s to even get the chance to engage them in WVR, we are stuck at Block 52 and AIM-120 C5. Not unless we get either V or AIM-120D specifically for our vipers, F-16s would be a history of PAF.

Then I guess we better invite our Turkish friends to play

 

[Dalit]

My dear,

WVR and all this “F-16 vs F-15” are the talks of just exercises. F-15 is deadly enough in terms of BVR that i find it hard for our F-16s to even get the chance to engage them in WVR, we are stuck at Block 52 and AIM-120 C5. Not unless we get either V or AIM-120D specifically for our vipers, F-16s would be a history of PAF.

F-16s are history. These are definitely the last F-16s that PAF is operating.

No doubt that PAF is going to rely more and more on JVs. Especially with China.

Expect more US sales to India. This is logical since India belongs in US camp.

 

[StormBreaker]

F-16s are history. These are definitely the last F-16s that PAF is operating.

No doubt that PAF is going to rely more and more on JVs. Especially with China.

Expect more US sales to India. This is logical since India belongs in US camp.

This is where the confusion lies, india doesn’t belong to the us camp but does belong to it.

It’s like, they themselves face away from US, where US is a convincing salesman but the customer is arrogant.

 

[Dalit]

This is where the confusion lies, india doesn’t belong to the us camp but does belong to it.

It’s like, they themselves face away from US, where US is a convincing salesman but the customer is arrogant.

The Indians are playing it their way. Benefitting wherever possible and ignoring certain offers where they feel it is a risky affair. They don't want to put all their eggs in the American basket. The Yanks are trying hard, but the Indians only bite where they feel the reward is greater than the risk.

Let me assure you, the Yanks are frustrated. The Yanks are yearning for unquestionable loyalty from Hindustan. The relationship between the US and India is nowhere near where the Americans are desperately seeking it to be.

The Americans haven't gotten over the MMRCA rejection. These sales pitches should also be seen in that context.

 

[Meengla]

Only thing disturbing is that people in the same region fighting each other like babies while foreigners selling you weapons.

Both of these countries are incapable of finding a military solution to their disputes. Both of these countries will suffer if the other has huge instability. Both can sit together and figure out issues. Even water resources can be better managed when money is saved from the huge defense spendings to invest on water resources. And both will eventually live together.

And yet this continues... for 70+ years. Hundreds of millions on both sides, a number so large never in human history, whose lives could be greatly improved, suffering from generation to generation. So much human potential wasted. So many lives lost. So many maimed in body and soul from the violence.