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Pakistan Taliban chief Hakimullah Mehsud killed in drone strike.

I wasn't optimistic with the dialogue process at the start,instead i was opposed to it.All i'm saying that when a procedure is being followed,it much reach to a certain stage to say if it was successful or not.It was the last ditch effort by the GoP to see if things can turn out to be positive and a bigger target could be changed into a smaller objective.They (the GoP) was sincere in their efforts to some extent because with out a fight they would have got a lot of them alive,which would have given us the opportunity to expose the remaining links of the network.That could have helped us in demolishing and demoralizing them for good.And our losses would have been minimum.

Yes, this is the tone of this entire thread. I just don't believe you'd get anyone. They'd send suicide bombers to negotiation.

The region that the TTP militia occupies,has innocent civilians living alongside them.So, my friend when you fight a war it's not your terrain that you do plan to take over & care about the innocent civilians & infrastructure.It has been a foreign land all the time in the WOT for you guys.The fighting dynamics change upside down just by considering such a situation.
The irony is those lads they recruit for their suicide missions are usually in the range of 13-15 years of age........ teenagers they are (sometimes even younger).You tell me how much sense and sanity can you expect from an individual of that age,who woke up one day to realize that his loved ones were caught in the flames of a Hellfire.And that they were not Talibans or terrorists.That revenge pushes him against us.Unfortunately, it's a loss of a generation not that of a few individuals.No government can take such huge risk.It'll be better if we help them diffuse their bombs than make them to blow it on our face.:D
Proxies.... Not even a question that TTP is a proxies of ours.They may be the proxies of somebody else,not ours.The scumbags who want to tear my country apart,declare our land as a Federation of Taliban.Who constitutes of majority of foreigner with local recruits(the ones which i've mentioned above) can be our men? ...I very seriously doubt it.Your proxy won't ask you to scrap your constitution.They don't not except the our existence from day one.They have a different agenda.Hence my reasoning to not indulge give them any chance to flourish.Your proxy will never declare a war on you...hence, you'll never need to fight against them.
So, let's not confuse it with a freedom struggle on a disputed land and our efforts to support it by hook or by crook.

Those 13-15 year old lads get their "knowledge" somewhere. It should not be too difficult for a state run institution to find out where this new wisdom is being taught and when you know of the place you can get access to a wider grid of people.
I find it hard to believe an intelligence agency with human operatives that are supposedly very good and has access to all the data in the country (i suppose) has this much problems with illiterates running around with AK's.

Especially after this same institution already has ample experience in setting up these type of operations, namely in Afghanistan to which i was refering earlier with the hedging bets comment (I meant it in a more general way) to which you replied with the second half of the above quote, TTP-proxy part.


Power projection & expeditionary warfare never works in this region.As it is not the only solution.Same happened with the Russians when they left.But it doesn't mean that they can't be diffused and defeated.
Did the projection of power helped the US to finish all of the Talibans out of the Afghanistan and send them to hell & after 2014 will they not be a threat for you guys and the afghan government?


Both these attempts were not like they were supposed to be. US with their nation building crap and gloves approach and as for the USSR, you need to know context, by 1989 the debt and unsustainability already caught up and it was only a matter of time.
I read on some forum that after Soviets left the puppet government lasted 3 years after them, while the Soviets were financing it, but fell apart just 3 months after they couldn't finance it any longer.


This is why i said it wasn't that helpful for us.It will now get as unstable as it can get.

I'm sorry to hear that, i hope everyone stays safe, but with all due respect it's not stable as is. And the root of all of this is the fact Pakistan is besides Somalia probably the only country which can't send it's army and police to 100% of the country. And what do you know, Somalia has a similar insurgency problem going on as you guys.
 
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@Side-Winder

A confused and divided nation , wouldn't you say ? Hell bent on calling him martyr and scaring others of God's wrath , who are terming him as terrorists ?

@jaibi Look at the page and the screenshot , this isn't the first , but it surely is interesting since its posted on our own defence.pk page . :D
 
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It insults my intelligence when main line political leaders such as Ch. Nisar are calling the killing of Hakimullah Mehsud ‘Murder’ of peace process.

The dialogue had not even started. TTP terms are impossible to agree as they have openly said that they don’t accept Pakistan’s Constitution; how can anyone call it Murder of peace process.

Do I understand that PML-N & Ch. Nisar were ready to accept Taliban’s’ terms and withdraw Pak Army from FATA? I would consider it out & out treason as it means giving up Pakistan’s lands to her enemies. How can we expect to take Kashmir from India when we are unable to defend the land that is already ours?

The situation is utterly ridiculous and it appears that Ch. Nisar has joined Taliban Khan and Munawwar Hassan in kissing Taliban’s feet.

Here is an article from Dawn bemoaning the confused and defeatist state of the nation.

Mourning a villain
ZAHID HUSSAIN

Published 2013-11-05 07:49:29

THE death of a man who waged war against the Pakistani state and was responsible for the slaughtering of thousands of innocent men, women and children should have come as a great relief to this strife-torn nation.

Instead, our political leaders are mourning the death of Hakeemullah Mehsud in a US drone strike describing the incident as an “attack on peace”.

From being public enemy No.1, the chief of the Tehreek-i-Taliban Pakistan (TTP) has virtually been turned into a hero after his inglorious death. A mass murderer who ordered the beheading of our soldiers and claimed responsibility for killing a Pakistani general just a few months ago, is now being elevated to the status of a martyr.

Instead of seizing this moment of opportunity to dismantle a fragmented terrorist network, a frightened political leadership has shamelessly prostrated itself before the militants. As a result, the extremists and their allies are now dominating the public narrative despite their crimes against the people of Pakistan. It is an extremely dangerous situation for a country facing the existential threat of spiralling violent extremism. A narrow self-serving leadership is taking the entire country towards a suicidal path.

With few exceptions, all political parties have joined the chorus that the fatal drone strike on Hakeemullah was a conspiracy to scuttle an illusory peace process. While the interior minister has called for reviewing relations with the US, an agitated Imran Khan has threatened to block the Nato supply line in protest. The bravado may just be public posturing, but the irresponsible rhetoric could lead to some unintentional consequences, plunging the country into more dire straits.

It is a pity that even the killing of young women and children in a suicide bombing in a crowded Peshawar bazaar or the massacre of Christian worshippers in the church bombing has not shaken the great Khan as much as the death of the leader of the militant outfit that perpetrated those heinous attacks. He even refuses to accept that the Taliban were behind those bombings despite their endorsement of the attack.

Seemingly, all the tumult is about the timing of the US action and the violation of Pakistan’s sovereignty once again. According to the interior minister, the attack was carried out hours before a three-member delegation was to meet the TTP leadership and extend to them a formal invitation from the government for talks.

Notwithstanding the questionable legality of America’s drone strikes on Pakistani soil, it is hard to believe that the targeting of the TTP chief was part of a plan to sabotage the talks as alleged by our political leaders.

One should not forget that the TTP leader was on the US’s most wanted list with a bounty of up to $5m on his head. He came on the US radar after a video showed him talking to Hummam Khalil Abu-Mulal al Balawi, a Jordanian doctor with Al Qaeda connections who blew himself up inside a CIA operating base in Afghanistan’s Khost province, killing seven intelligence operatives in 2009. The incident also confirmed his close ties with Al Qaeda.

Soon after, Hakeemullah claimed to have trained Faisal Shehzad, an American of Pakistani origin who was involved in a failed attempt to detonate a car bomb in New York’s Times Square.

Hakeemullah had narrowly escaped several drone strikes in the past three years. He was also reportedly injured in one of them that kept him out of action for several months. Significantly, the fatal attack on Friday came a couple of weeks after the US forces had snatched from the Afghan intelligence agencies Latif Mehsud, a close confidant of the TTP leader.

It is quite plausible that the information gleaned from Latif might have led the CIA to Hakeemullah’s hideout. Interior Minister Chaudhry Nisar Ali Khan has confirmed that American officials had informed him that the TTP leader would not be spared if tracked down.

For sure, the drone campaign has remained a major irritant in the troubled relations between Islamabad and Washington. Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif also raised the issue during his meeting with President Barack Obama in Washington last month. Indeed, Pakistan’s objection to the violation of the country’s sovereignty is fully justified on legal and ethical grounds. There are no two views about the negative political impact of the collateral damage caused by the drone attacks.

But it is also a fact, that the drones have eliminated many high-value Pakistani militants running their terrorist operations from North Waziristan. Prominent among those killed in the last two years are Waliur Rehman, who was deputy chief of the TTP, Ilyas Kashmiri, Qari Hussain, Qari Zafar and Badar Mansoor. They were all masterminds of attacks on Pakistani security installations.

Pakistan has also decided to contact the five permanent members of the UN Security Council on the killing of Hakeemullah in the latest drone strike. The move will certainly make Pakistan a laughing stock and only weaken the country’s case on the drone issue.

Leave aside other countries, Islamabad cannot even convince its closest ally China on the matter. The militant sanctuaries in North Waziristan are a cause for concern to the entire international community. It is certain that the way Pakistan is dealing with the issue of terrorism will find no takers.

It was questionable from the outset whether the government’s peace efforts could succeed given the uncompromising attitude of the TTP. In his last interview to the BBC, Hakeemullah had rejected any dialogue under the Pakistani Constitution, saying that it envisioned a secular democratic system.

Now with his death that may lead to further fragmentation of the TTP, the possibility of any purposeful negotiations has become even more remote. But the danger is that the current state of policy disarray may provide a conducive environment in which the militants can revitalise their activities. It is perhaps, the most critical point in the country’s struggle against the rising militant threat.

The writer is an author and journalist.

zhussain100@yahoo.com

Twitter: @hidhussain
http://dawn.com/news/1054253/mourning-a-villain
 
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Although i am glad he is dead. Good riddance but this will present a better case for drone strikes. I do like the repercussions where we are stopping Nato supply.
 
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Although i am glad he is dead. Good riddance but this will present a better case for drone strikes. I do like the repercussions where we are stopping Nato supply.

Ah then; you like to cut your nose to spite your face?
Don't try to live too dangerously, its a Health Hazard.
 
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I have heard of the peace talk b/t TTP and Pak government and that the incident that happened resulted to the death of Hakimuallah was intentional done by the US and that the US knew his place before but held it to this time specifically in order to further escalate the tension to prevent the peace talk so that they keep foot inside Pakistan territories and to keep Pakistan swimming in this conflict as much as possible. Stable Pakistan means more headache to the US.
 
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^^ democratic GoP was complicit in attack in Abbotabad, it is as clear as day light.
Only cool general kept it cool, i think the glorification of democracy and cheap justice, prevented a martial law on various occasions and this was one.

Your proof for this?
 
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I have heard of the peace talk b/t TTP and Pak government and that the incident that happened resulted to the death of Hakimuallah was intentional done by the US and that the US knew his place before but the held it to this time specifically in order to further escalate the tension to prevent the peace talk so that they keep foot inside Pakistan territories and to keep Pakistan in swimming in this conflict as much as they can. Stable Pakistan means more headache to the US.

This post is aimed at Pakistani members only. Indians don't quote me and keep your noses where they belong.

Yes you are right. The people who claim that the nation is divided on talibans are delusional because they aren't divided nobody says he shouldn't have been killed its the time of the killing and not the killing itself that raises some serious questions. The moment any of their leaders show any inclination to have peace talks they drone him just at that precise moment so what are people supposed to think. They are bound to think that US isn't on board and doesn't want any long lasting peace in the region.
 
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Yes you are right. The people who claim that the nation is divided on talibans are delusional because they aren't divided nobody says he shouldn't have been killed its the time of the killing and not the killing itself that raises some serious questions. The moment any of their leaders show any inclination to have peace talks they drone him just at that precise moment so what are people supposed to think. They are bound to think that US isn't on board and doesn't want any long lasting peace in the region.

Thankx for the clarification, Time for Pakistan to the kick the US out and to deal with the issue itself. Pakistan has the capabilities to either go along with the peace talk or fry the TTP alive. The longer the US stay the more fragment it gets.
 
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Ah then; you like to cut your nose to spite your face?
Don't try to live too dangerously, its a Health Hazard.
worked the last time we cut their supply off. Infact they were looking for other routes. The more we stay away from america,s war in afghanistan the better it is for us. Its not dangerous. I doubt america will do anything if the supply is blocked again. Same things were said the last time and nothing happened.
 
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worked the last time we cut their supply off. Infact they were looking for other routes. The more we stay away from america,s war in afghanistan the better it is for us. Its not dangerous. I doubt america will do anything if the supply is blocked again. Same things were said the last time and nothing happened.

Was it really like that the last time around? Because the facts seem to show otherwise.
Please do pause and take a look again at it all objectively.

Of course the Americans went looking for other routes and found them, even if they were prohibitively expensive and troublesome. Because they had both the Money and the Influence to do so.
What did Pakistan find? It found shutting the route down expensive. In the sense that it lost both money and influence.
Then what did Pakistan do after that? It re-opened the route and most of all---- It backed down on all demands including upward revision of the transit fees!
So to quote you again: "Same things were said the last time and nothing happened".
Did "NOTHING" really happen?
Well yes; "NOTHING" really happened in the sense that "everything went back to being as they were before".........................Thats as "NOTHING" as it can be.
 
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Our Real Enemies who is really hurting us Economically, Deceptive Terrorism, Manipulating our Election Results, Manipulating our Establishments and Political Govts., Judical System is only 1 True Enemy and that is United States of America and their Shadow Zionist Illuminati Facist Nazis Crusaders Jewish Alliance Govt. In fact this Enemy is the Big Shark Whale who wants to Destroy Pakistan but also all Arabs and Muslims around the World, Obama is also Crypto Jew deceiving Whole World and Pakistan, No Independent Govt. in USA come in power unless bless by Zionist, Nazis, Supremacist, Crusaders Jewish Alliance and NWO Illuminatis plus Free Massons, they run whole world and printing Fake US Dollars through Federal Reserve Bank, Which is in reality mostly own by Jewish and Zionist Christian Alliance and International Jewish World Bankers, If US as a country goes down then that day will be a Day of Celebration not only for all Muslims but Whole World as US alone consume 80 percent of World Resources, All Americans including Blacks, Spanish, Indians and others support Endless Wars on Pakistan and Arabs for Oil, for their Resources and Nukes
If Zionist will not able to take out Nuclear Weapons from Pakistan using American Armed forces and NATO through Afghanistan and Pakistani Taliban then Jews and Zionist American Christians in India will use India to Suprise Nuke attack and Invasion of Pakistan to get Pak Nukes through India
so Zionist can never be destroy unless US as a country remain alive and Thanks to Allah, if US $ loose its value then it will begin End of US as Civil War in US will begin, Black killing Spanish, other Immigrants, Whites and vice versa InshAllah and Ameen
if only US will get destroyed then it will be end of Economic Terrorism on Whole World and most of Wars which happen in every few years regularly, Also Advice to all muslims start buy Gold, Silver, Food, Agriculture lands and Illegal Guns as time of Fitna and Dajjal is NEAR! and start moving out of Big Mega Cities like Karachi, NewYork, Dubai etc and move to live near Mountains, Jungles, Lakes, Rivers and Small towns and villages to survive Time of Dajjal - Anti Christ - 666 and also time of Gog Magog ( Yajooj Majooj) is very Near, In my estimates just 40 - 50 years, but Allah Subhanoo Wat'ala knows all Truth, Remember me in your Duas, prayers and Best wishes

Your Bro. and Sister in Islam
 
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