Pakistan successfully test fires Ghauri V (Enhanced)

[Shoaib_Sham]

If Israel is conveyed the message that if Pakistan ever comes under the attack of the US it will come under attack too, then Israeli lobby in Washington will do everything to prevent an attack on Pakistan by the US. Everybody knows that American politicians are incapable of resisting the Israeli lobby. So, Pakistan should bring Israel within its range as an insurance policy. I believe Israel is already within the range of the Pakistani missiles.

Actually If we achieve the capability to target Israel with our ABMs. It would certainly create Fear and anxiety in the Leadership of Israels. But what they would do in reaction is some thing we cant really predict. Other side of the Coin is; they would increase Lobbying against Pakistan nuclear Arsenal and would try to cap our nuclear capabilities one way or the other. In Fear I see them getting more aggresive towards us not defensive. I dont see a point in increasing our List of Enemies. We just need to tell the world that India is spending so extensively on weaponization that its 7+ growth for more than a decade now hasnt really changed a life of an ordinary Indian. This weaponization has to be matched (or an effort has to be made) from Pakistan. and these weaponization will make sure that 1 and half billion people live as part of a third world community.

 

[salman nedian]

If Israel is conveyed the message that if Pakistan ever comes under the attack of the US it will come under attack too, then Israeli lobby in Washington will do everything to prevent an attack on Pakistan by the US. Everybody knows that American politicians are incapable of resisting the Israeli lobby. So, Pakistan should bring Israel within its range as an insurance policy. I believe Israel is already within the range of the Pakistani missiles.

I agree with u but actually Pakistan is developing its capabilities like JF-17 and when J-10’s production will start Pakistan will have a strong setup for air and army defense but we need some progress in Navy like Air craft carriers and more frigates and destroyers needs to be included.

 

[T-Rex]

Actually If we achieve the capability to target Israel with our ABMs. It would certainly create Fear and anxiety in the Leadership of Israels. But what they would do in reaction is some thing we cant really predict. Other side of the Coin is; they would increase Lobbying against Pakistan nuclear Arsenal and would try to cap our nuclear capabilities one way or the other. In Fear I see them getting more aggresive towards us not defensive. I dont see a point in increasing our List of Enemies. We just need to tell the world that India is spending so extensively on weaponization that its 7+ growth for more than a decade now hasnt really changed a life of an ordinary Indian. This weaponization has to be matched (or an effort has to be made) from Pakistan. and these weaponization will make sure that 1 and half billion people live as part of a third world community.

To begin with, the assumption that now there is no fear in Israel about the defence capabilities of Pakistan is wrong. Israel is behind all the pressure that is applied to Pakistan. Israel was ready to bomb the Pakistani nuclear facilities a few years back, so what has changed to alleviate Israel's fear, the answer is nothing. No matter how hard Pakistan tries not to be an enemy of Israel, from the point of view of the Israeli politicians the existence of the Pakistani nuclear programme is good enough reason to put Pakistan on their list of enemies. The sooner Pakistani politicians realise it the better.

 

[muse]

Why should we deliberately create fear in the hearts and minds of Israelis? What is to be gained, other than their emnity,from doing that?

T-Rex --- Have you any evidence to offer that Israeli very ready to attack Pakistani nuclear facilities??

 

[indiapakistanfriendship]

It falls under the range of Shaheen 2. It is very true of the Jewish lobby you talk of..............But compared to Israel, Pakistan has great strategic depth in order to sustain its assault whereas Israel finishes where it begins.

Sir dont you think Israel as a nation will go for pre emptive attack incase Pakistan threatens them, where in they have not provoked you.

Sir don't you think the powerful Jewish lobby would be able to project that Pakistan was the agressor so they had to launch a nuclear attack.

As you mention since Israel has less strategic depth it don't you think they have much more to loose and shall go for an all out pre emptive attack'

Also I have read that even during the hydays of cold war the soviets were sure of their calculation that only 20 % of their missiles shall hit US territory successfully. In that case what is the probability that the first strike shall hit israel accurately.
I would like to hear from you sir

cheers

 

[IceCold]

To begin with, the assumption that now there is no fear in Israel about the defence capabilities of Pakistan is wrong. Israel is behind all the pressure that is applied to Pakistan. Israel was ready to bomb the Pakistani nuclear facilities a few years back, so what has changed to alleviate Israel's fear, the answer is nothing. No matter how hard Pakistan tries not to be an enemy of Israel, from the point of view of the Israeli politicians the existence of the Pakistani nuclear programme is good enough reason to put Pakistan on their list of enemies. The sooner Pakistani politicians realise it the better.

The only problem that we have with israel is that we donot recognize them because of the palestine issue and because we support the palestinians openly condemning every act of israel,therefore they do the same and hence support India on kashmir. A tit for tat. Rest assured pakistan isnt a banana republic with some ragtag army where someone who can just enter and bomb us. There was some report that israel is ready to attack pakistan nuclear installations but the next very day they sent their foreign minister to pakistan which assured that israel has no such plans.

 

[solid snake]

Israel and Pakistan are not enemies. Pakistan has absolutely nothing to do with Israel, and does not threaten it in any way.

Mushy has been hinting at recognizing Israel for a while, and I believe within the next 15-20 years, Pakistan will recognize Israel. It's only because of Pakistans emotional, barely educated class that we are not recognizing Israel formally.

And to think that a country like Israel could even threaten Pakistan. What a joke. It's population is less than half of Karachi's.

 

[IceCold]

Israel and Pakistan are not enemies. Pakistan has absolutely nothing to do with Israel, and does not threaten it in any way.

Mushy has been hinting at recognizing Israel for a while, and I believe within the next 15-20 years, Pakistan will recognize Israel. It's only because of Pakistans emotional, barely educated class that we are not recognizing Israel formally.

And to think that a country like Israel could even threaten Pakistan. What a joke. It's population is less than half of Karachi's.

Next 15 to 20 years IMO will be too late. We need to recognize them now and perhaps this way we may be able to help the palestine cause in a much better way. We have seen the results all this long by not recognizing Israel and nothing happened, now we should try a different approach and should recognize them.

 

[Joodi]

Next 15 to 20 years IMO will be too late. We need to recognize them now and perhaps this way we may be able to help the palestine cause in a much better way. We have seen the results all this long by not recognizing Israel and nothing happened, now we should try a different approach and should recognize them.

More than half a dozen muslim countries have already recognized isreal. But has this recoginition brought any positivity to palestine cause, No not at all. On the contrary this recoginition by muslim countries has made isreal more brutal.

 

[T-Rex]

Why should we deliberately create fear in the hearts and minds of Israelis? What is to be gained, other than their emnity,from doing that?

T-Rex --- Have you any evidence to offer that Israeli very ready to attack Pakistani nuclear facilities??

Pakistan has already gained Israel's enmity without really doing anything other than supporting the cause of the Palestinians; in order to prove that one does not need proof, all one has to do is look at Israel's role in 1971 war and its defence relationship with India. Now one can go on flatly denying that Israel had anything to do with India or Pakistan in 1971 or it ever made any plan to attack the Pakistani nuclear sites but do we not know the story of the U-2 flights over Russia and how the Americans flatly denied it before Krushchev showed the wreckage of the downed U-2 ?

 

[muse]

T

The Palestinian movement has a great deal of support in Europe, has Europe too therefore earned the enmity of Israel? Palestinians have support in a number of countries that Israel has diplomatic relations with and it's a stretch to argue that for instance, Morocco has earned the enmity of Israelis or the Turks have.

There is flaw in the logic you have presented. I am not suggesting the Israeli is not a enemy, nor am I suggesting that it is a enemy. Fact of the matter is that there is much mutual advantage between these extremes.

And while there may be some emotional types in Israel who imagine that the enmity of Pakistan is better than the friendship of Pakistan, it is difficult to imagine that these are a numerically significant group, but I will concede that it may be a small and influential group, however; we have no conclusive information to come to such a understanding.

It seems to me to be stupid and ignorant on behalf of Israelis to want Pakistan as a enemy - and I don't think that we think of Israelis as stupid and ignorant, afraid of their own shadow, yes but given their historical experience, we may forgive them this shortcoming.

 

[asaad-ul-islam]

i'm ashamed of hearing such statements of recognizing israel. pakistan will never do that even if palestinians do not care for pakistan. musharraf may have had a case of "enlightened moderation", but there is simply no excuse to give in to threats and accept defeat.

Near the beginning, israel has made a promise to destroy pakistan through covert means. They have supplied india with equipment and intelligence that changed the outcome of kargil and have planned to take out our nuclear facilities. Yet we have made it so far and have survived, the positive image of pakistan in the hearts of muslims would dissappear. Why should we suck up, surrender and submit, and bow down to israel?

Look at how Turkey was supposedly an ally of israel, yet mossad has betrayed them by supporting the PKK Kurdish resistance. You can never trust anyone, pakistan does it again and again with the US. Does anyone here seriously think we can trust israel?

 

[asaad-ul-islam]

salaams to T-Rex. I understand you are one of the many muslims who understand the potential and importance of pakistan's nuclear capabilities. Believe me, I know a lot of bangladeshis who understand the grave importance of pakistan and its nuclear program.

they know bangladesh doesn't have a defense industry, so they look to pakistan. I'm always happy to meet muslims who think strategically and always look at the ummah's future.

as for pakistan's weapons, we will only OPENLY test missiles that match indian missiles. however, i'm sure you've noticed that we haven't tested shaheen or ghauri III that much. It's probably because we want to keep it low profile while the world's focus is on us. pakistan has always had it much more difficult compared to india, yet we've delivered a lot more.

we won't openly test missiles that can reach israel, but remember it is confirmed that we do have such missiles in our arsenal. Pakistan is also coming close to perfecting the tipu sultan missile which will have 5000km+ on its meter. I'm going to urge members to keep it low profile.

I'm also certain we will have an icbm which can hit any important target in the world by 2010, which will probably have a range of 12,000km+.

 

[T-Rex]

T

The Palestinian movement has a great deal of support in Europe, has Europe too therefore earned the enmity of Israel? Palestinians have support in a number of countries that Israel has diplomatic relations with and it's a stretch to argue that for instance, Morocco has earned the enmity of Israelis or the Turks have.

There is flaw in the logic you have presented. I am not suggesting the Israeli is not a enemy, nor am I suggesting that it is a enemy. Fact of the matter is that there is much mutual advantage between these extremes.

And while there may be some emotional types in Israel who imagine that the enmity of Pakistan is better than the friendship of Pakistan, it is difficult to imagine that these are a numerically significant group, but I will concede that it may be a small and influential group, however; we have no conclusive information to come to such a understanding.

It seems to me to be stupid and ignorant on behalf of Israelis to want Pakistan as a enemy - and I don't think that we think of Israelis as stupid and ignorant, afraid of their own shadow, yes but given their historical experience, we may forgive them this shortcoming.

Not knowing whom you can befriend and whom you cannot is a fatal ignorance. We can wish for so many things but that has no bearing upon the facts.

 

[muse]

Not knowing whom you can befriend and whom you cannot is a fatal ignorance. We can wish for so many things but that has no bearing upon the facts.


Fair enough, but we are talking about policy of a large nation state, not some sissy neighbor boy. Pakistan maintains it's freedom to change it's policy, it's policy we are talking about - If we find that there is no advantage to accrue to our national interests, we can change policy to ensure benefit.