Pakistan shows who’s the boss

[T-Faz]

This article is from Foreign Policy, so it is very valid in its outlook.

I do remember that just the other day when an article from Foreign Policy was published which criticized Pakistan, Indians were quick to point out the source and say that it cannot be overlooked.

What now?

 

[Dil Pakistan]

So for Gen Kayani, in the sequence of available recources to address corruption in Pakistani politics, USA figures higher than the Pakistani Supreme court?

Come on Karan !!! Why do you always pretend as if you have missed the REAL point that was being made. In my post the the point is not about superiority of sequence of available resources. The REAL point is how to best use use your resources. Take this scenario, if Supreme court has to be asked to chop of few heads then it can be done but it will leave bitterness within the system. On the other hand if US does the job then Zardari or any body else is not going to stand in front of them and beat the chest. I hope it is clear now. It is a smart move from Kayani, wait for 2 weeks and see what happens.

 

[Spring Onion]

This article is from Foreign Policy, so it is very valid in its outlook.

I do remember that just the other day when an article from Foreign Policy was published which criticized Pakistan, Indians were quick to point out the source and say that it cannot be overlooked.

What now?

Now the foreign policy journal is bought by ISI

 

[third eye]

This article is pretty pathetic and not even worth a read. To suggest that Pakistan can OPENLY and BALATENTLY stop the American + NATO supply and get away with it is nothing but stupid and childish thinking. Pakistan has never dreamt of doing this before and can never do it in the future. If Pakistan was so serious and furious then why only block the TORKHAM route and leave the CHAMAN route open !!!. It is an open secret that the drone attacks are being carried out with tacit agreement of Pakistan Govt. and Pakistan Army.

This leaves us with the question that "what else Pakistan Army wants to achieve by blocking this supply route" ? T.

Reminds me of the poster available at archies stores that says " I am the master of the house & I have my wife's permission to say so".

Everyone is playing to the gallery.

 

[Dil Pakistan]

Reminds me of the poster available at archies stores that says " I am the master of the house & I have my wife's permission to say so".

Everyone is playing to the gallery.

Sorry, I did'nt understand the point you are trying to make !!! please amplify.

 

[gubbi]

This article is pretty pathetic and not even worth a read. To suggest that Pakistan can OPENLY and BALATENTLY stop the American + NATO supply and get away with it is nothing but stupid and childish thinking. Pakistan has never dreamt of doing this before and can never do it in the future. If Pakistan was so serious and furious then why only block the TORKHAM route and leave the CHAMAN route open !!!. It is an open secret that the drone attacks are being carried out with tacit agreement of Pakistan Govt. and Pakistan Army.

This leaves us with the question that "what else Pakistan Army wants to achieve by blocking this supply route" ? The answer to this lies not what happens in Pakistan from Afghanistan but what is really happening inside Pakistan (and the current political + legal situation). There is no hidding to the fact that A P Kayani does NOT like Zardari and many of its ministers (and I support him in this). But, the chances of over throwing the Govt. with any unconstitutional means are less than a million. Gen Kayani has clearly asked the Govt. to get rid of a number of ministers (the corrupt ones - I am not sure if there are any un-corrupt ministers in the Govt.) on a number of occassions. The Govt. did not do any thing. Therefore, the supreme court was sprung into action and on 27th Sept. the chances were that prime minister will be disqualified, but this was averted at the last minute. Now several judgements from supreme court are waiting to be passed (NRO case, 18th amendment case etc. etc.). This blocking of supply route is a stretegic move from Gen Kayani to get the NATO and US interested in the "clean up operation" of Pakistan Govt. (you may recall the statement from white house representative yesterday "pakistanis want a govt. that can give them good governance - very much what Gen Kayani has been saying for months). This Govt. came in to power with US support and cannot survive if this support is withdrawn. Gen Kayani has adopted the position that if you (the US) have brought them in power then ask them to give us a clean and good governance. US cannot argue against this. Gen Kayani wants US to clean up the mess so that Pak Army is not blamed in meddling with the political issues. If this fails then the second line of action will be Supreme court. This Govt. will have to clean itself one way or the other. Gen Kayani is a smart and honest guy and I support him.

As far as the "innocent Pakistanis" or the poor soldiers are concerned, who get killed regularly; to be very frank no body gives a damn. This is the real world and truth is often harsh.

Why do you think that Gen Kayani would want the US to influence changes in the Govt.? He's got the army with him, can very well take over in a very much bloodless coup, a la Mushraff. What would stop him?

NATO & US wise, they would find it much easier to deal with one powerful person in Pakistan than with a motley of corrupt politicians who have a weak hold politically. For their own intersts, US/NATO would support One such powerful figure, if a push came to shove (from Pakistan's pov), in Pakistan.

Why wouldnt Kayani want to do a coup?

So then, isnt all this theatrics for domestic consumption? Many educated members here believe that US/NATO troops would suffer shortages in Afghansitan with this route blocked!

 

[Dil Pakistan]

Why do you think that Gen Kayani would want the US to influence changes in the Govt.? He's got the army with him, can very well take over in a very much bloodless coup, a la Mushraff. What would stop him?

NATO & US wise, they would find it much easier to deal with one powerful person in Pakistan than with a motley of corrupt politicians who have a weak hold politically. For their own intersts, US/NATO would support One such powerful figure, if a push came to shove (from Pakistan's pov), in Pakistan.

Why wouldnt Kayani want to do a coup?

So then, isnt all this theatrics for domestic consumption? Many educated members here believe that US/NATO troops would suffer shortages in Afghansitan with this route blocked!

WHY GEN KAYANI WOULD NOT WANT A COUP ?

The answer to this is very very simple for a number of reasons:

1. Army, at the moment is over stretched from floods to Western border to Swat to South Waziristan to Eastern border. Only a stupid can think of adding more burden to this nightmare scenario.

2. In Balochistan, the situation is bad and will get worse after Army take over.

3. International countries and donor agencies do not like to trade with military regimes.

4. Booting out of another leadership from Sindh will create problems there as well.

5. Most importantly Gen Kayani is a soldier's soldier. he does not think (sincerely) that military coups are the answer for Pakistan problems.

 

[somebozo]

A coup also shudders the world confidence in a country. Army coups usually take place as last resort in desperately failing countries. And Pakistan having four of them to record in 60 years does not make matters into our favor by any angle.

 

[Dil Pakistan]

Why do you think that Gen Kayani would want the US to influence changes in the Govt.? He's got the army with him, can very well take over in a very much bloodless coup, a la Mushraff. What would stop him?

NATO & US wise, they would find it much easier to deal with one powerful person in Pakistan than with a motley of corrupt politicians who have a weak hold politically. For their own intersts, US/NATO would support One such powerful figure, if a push came to shove (from Pakistan's pov), in Pakistan.

Why wouldnt Kayani want to do a coup?

So then, isnt all this theatrics for domestic consumption? Many educated members here believe that US/NATO troops would suffer shortages in Afghansitan with this route blocked!

Many educated members can think what they like. A country like Pakistan (with economy on its knees, political turmoil every where, 2 million homeless with floods, corrupt structure of civil administration, corrupt leadership) should think of blocking supply of NATO and US !!!! The response from them will be breath taking. Take the example, further F-16 blocked, supply of arms blocked, money (which is so important) blocked, trade with EU blocked. And these just the non-military means, without breaking the sweat. Think if they put their aircraft carier in the Arabian sea and B-52 within the striking distance.

I dodn't understand which cukkoos land these educated members live in.

 

[gubbi]

WHY GEN KAYANI WOULD NOT WANT A COUP ?

The answer to this is very very simple for a number of reasons:

1. Army, at the moment is over stretched from floods to Western border to Swat to South Waziristan to Eastern border. Only a stupid can think of adding more burden to this nightmare scenario.

2. In Balochistan, the situation is bad and will get worse after Army take over.

3. International countries and donor agencies do not like to trade with military regimes.

4. Booting out of another leadership from Sindh will create problems there as well.

Nothing new. Infact no Pakistani politician, except for some in the Judiciary, would dare stand up against the Army. I believe with the present conditions, they would bend over backwards to please the army.

As for International NGOs and other countries, some will initially voice their opposition but will eventually find it easier to deal with one man than with both- the civilian govt for public consumption and the military for real reason! Musharaff had a pretty good time dealing with other countries.

5. Most importantly Gen Kayani is a soldier's soldier. he does not think (sincerely) that military coups are the answer for Pakistan problems.

That I believe. I had read somewhere that he's not really interested in Politics and just wants to do his job. But then, since he's the most powerful person in Pakistan - for now, if he doesnt take advantage of the situation then what if the future COAS carries out a coup? What if that future COAS turns out to be like Zia?

 

[Dil Pakistan]

Nothing new. Infact no Pakistani politician, except for some in the Judiciary, would dare stand up against the Army. I believe with the present conditions, they would bend over backwards to please the army.

As for International NGOs and other countries, some will initially voice their opposition but will eventually find it easier to deal with one man than with both- the civilian govt for public consumption and the military for real reason! Musharaff had a pretty good time dealing with other countries.


That I believe. I had read somewhere that he's not really interested in Politics and just wants to do his job. But then, since he's the most powerful person in Pakistan - for now, if he doesnt take advantage of the situation then what if the future COAS carries out a coup? What if that future COAS turns out to be like Zia?

Dear Gubbi, I don't know if you don't understand or Don't want to understand

 

[gubbi]

Dear Gubbi, I don't know if you don't understand or Don't want to understand

I do. You raised interesting points (I like.), contrary to that held by the majority. I was just asking to understand more of this other pov. Kind of rare on this forum.

 

[Dil Pakistan]

I do. You raised interesting points (I like.), contrary to that held by the majority. I was just asking to understand more of this other pov. Kind of rare on this forum.

Well! thank you to begin with (makes me feel better).

Pakistan has to keep its feet on the ground when dealing with US and NATO. The situation for Pakistan is very very serious from many different angles (security, politics, leadership, economy, law and order). It is no secret now that US was behind Gen Zia's assasination. I fear for Kayani as well, if he crosses the line. He is (in the current situtation) a beacon of hope for Pakistan. He wants to achieve so many things for Pakistan without meddling army into politics (this is his strategy). He wants a better Pakistan. The problem with Pakistan is that individuals (like Kayani) rather than the system make the difference. Take the example of Gen Zia. His assasination was a game changing episode for Pakistan. Gen Zia, after all the turmoils of 80s had brought Pakistan on the brink of recovery when he was martyred. I fear this for Kayani, that if he crosses the line with US, he may suffer the same fate.

 

[arya]

no feed to troll

what wrong with him he asked a valid question!

 

[Dil Pakistan]

I do. You raised interesting points (I like.), contrary to that held by the majority. I was just asking to understand more of this other pov. Kind of rare on this forum.

I would like to clarify just one more point due to your above statement. When I point out to any weaknesses about Pakistan I don't mean in a negative manner. If the whole world stop believing in Pakistan, I would still support and love Pakistan. It runs in my blood. But, for me, it does not mean to start making stupid arguements that have no relation with the real world. Pakistan can achieve its goals (whatever they are) with intelligent, educated, realistic and honest thinking + leadership.