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Pakistan should decide if it wants to talk to India or the separatists: Arun Jaitley

A Change In Tune

November 06, 2014View attachment 146423
Yes, Kashmir is a vital issue, on which a strong principled stance must be taken. Yes, the Indian “red lines” are unreasonable, seeking to isolate a significant stakeholder from any dialogue. But Pakistan must have its priorities straight. This chance at normalised relations, flimsy as it is, needs to be availed. Not only in the interest of an effective operation in the tribal belt, but for the sake of the innocent lives lost on both sides of the border.

A Change In Tune


India can take its so called 'RED LINES' up its black face, Pakistan does not consider any of India's red lines valid, it does not accept any red lines, Pakistan can shove these lines into Indian leaders and tell them, that it can go shove the rubbish itself, as Pakistan does not give much value to Indian relations anyway.
 
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India can take its so called 'RED LINES' up its a$$, Pakistan does not consider any of India's red lines, it does not accept any red lines, Pakistan can shove these lines into Indian leaders and tell them, that it can go fck itself as it does not give much value to Indian relations any way.

Why bother telling me? That was an editorial in the newspaper "The Nation", usually known for its close ties with the establishment. Take it up there & spare us your rant.
 
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The pertinent questions to be asked are perhaps: What is the common thing? Who decided what becomes the common thing?

Go back to 1993-95. There is a raging insurgency in Kashmir. Indian hold over J&K is tenuous at best. Streets in Pakistan and Kashmir are filled with anticipation, charged with excitement. Indian collapse is imminent, defeat of the IA and 'freedom' of Kashmir only a matter of time.

The government of Pakistan refuses any talks with India until and unless Kashmir is on the agenda. Without Kashmir, there is nothing to talk to India. The Indian government beseeches Pakistan, in futility, for unconditional talks. Indian pleas fall on uninterested ears.

Sounds familiar? Perhaps not. India asking for unconditional talks & Pak imposing conditions...It certainly isn't common now. Is it? But indulge me a bit more.

Go back, again, but this time to 1999. You're now in the Shadow of the Kargil conflict. Pakistan's international standing, despite becoming the newest member into the nuclear club, is at an all time low.

Pakistan wants deliberations with India on the future of Kashmir. However, for the first time, India puts forward their conditions for talks. Terrorism from Pakistan must stop for talks to proceed.

This is perhaps a little closer to the normal, right?

Again, Go back, for the final time, to 2004-05. Pakistan raises the demand for unconditional talks. India refuses. Talks will be dictated by the prevailing environment. Talks can only occur in the absence of violence.

Musharraf would agree, and thus began the CBMs. That was a decade back.

So I ask again. What is the normal?

In less than a generation, the Indian government has reversed the normal on Kashmir and on talks itself, flipped the discourse 180 degrees back at Pakistan.

You've heard, perhaps read, about social engineering. Well, this perhaps is an example of it. But I'd like to call this mindset engineering. For here, the very thoughts, the mindsets, of 190 million people have been tuned to such an effect that almost nobody realizes just how big the turnaround has been. For most Pakistanis, this is how it has always been. This has always been normal.

This doesn't imply that the Indian government or the Indian bureaucracy planned this with Confucian patience. This is perhaps just the pieces falling into the right spot at the right time. Indian government just fumbled their way into a strong position. Of course though, it has been aided in no small part by the shockingly bad diplomacy and the disturbing lack of foresight on the Pakistan side.

There is this interesting quote on the new normal: Because in the New Normal you are more worried about the return of your capital, not return on your capital.


I like the way you twist and turn a pure, independence struggle into a mindset engineering, with some social engineering taking place, blaming Pakistan which is only providing a facilitating role to a pure independence struggle, as it felt Kashmir under partition agreement, being Muslim majority was always going to be part of Pakistan.

lets get back to history: India came into a state only in 1947, before it was a region, a large subcontinent region, always ruled by Kingdoms and Empires.

India has supported the aspirations of Palestinians in Israel, Tamilians in Sri-Lanka, Bangladeshis in East Pakistan, Communist Afghanistan regime and others seeking freedom from oppressors than why it has lots of problems when it’s own people are demanding the same as in Kashmir and Punjab? Whats wrong with Kashmiri Muslims demanding a separate homeland, who hate to live with Hindus at any cost?

In 1947: Sikhs were promised a state by Hindus after a new state called India put Hindus into a prized position, the Hindu leaders Nehru, Gandhi, Patel, promised, back tracked and then lied to the Sikhs. Whats wrong in giving right of self-determination to Khalistan movement in North, once they were promised?

Why isn’t New-Delhi supporting Sri-Lankan government with arms to fight the LTTE terrorists who are jeopardizing the unity of Sri-Lanka? Why did they train the LTTE on Indian soil during Indira’s rule, while blaming Pakistan supporting some terrorists in Kashmir?

All this is normal for India isn't it ?

Lets get back to the promises after 1947, when Nehru promised the right of self-determination and plebiscite for Kashmirs. So till today it has never been given to the region of Jammu and Kashmir? Is this normal for India to lie and make false promises?

Only because Pakistan got indulge in a mighty big war on its western front, viz 48 countries and America invaded Afghanistan, Pakistan attention got diverted, but as soon as it is near to end, you will see what is normal with changing times ahead, the Kashmir struggle is back to normal ? Kashmir struggle is still ongoing, the matter has never been resolved, and will not been resolved until Kashmir gets their right of self-determination. Only in UK, thousands came out on the street, while millions support around the globe under the banner of Kashmir independence in London, which humiliates India worldwide, is this normal now?


The fact that Indian Security Forces number 700, 000 soldiers and police to occupy Kashmir, is this normal? Or is this normal India a poor country, sustaining a 700,000 Indian security force, costing $10-$12 billion a year, isn't this a common thing to do ?

I do have to admit, Pakistan complacence and follies by both Pakistani politicians and Army leadership for failing to do much more to resolve Kashmir dispute, and it will be more than normal in a couple of years from now, when complete withdrawal of defeated armies of the west and US go home from Af-Pak region for good.

The turnaround, you think you feel it is a temporary jolt, with Pakistani calculus fully aware of the cost by keeping 7 lakh soldiers in IoK and $15 billion pain every year to sustain for a past decade had cost India. Pakistan is not in hurry, but it also has ensured that Kashmir dispute never becomes a turn around for India and late events in Nawaz call in UN and UK march depicts that.

As long as 70, 000 Indian Security Forces, conduct brutal atrocities and illegally occupy a land, which it never at the start wanted to be part of India, it will never be a turn around, and it will remain a common thing for Pakistani leaders to have must meetings with Hurriyat leaders at all cost.


Because the new Normal you consider now, is costing India with lives and $10-$15 billion bill, and this lost of capital will only increase which had you more worried about the return of your capital in Kashmir to prolong your illegal occupation, while the economic failures of India are only going to rise, the warning of the new normal are clear. Kashmir Independence is back to normal.
 
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India can take its so called 'RED LINES' up its a$$, Pakistan does not consider any of India's red lines, it does not accept any red lines, Pakistan can shove these lines into Indian leaders and tell them, that it can go fck itself as it does not give much value to Indian relations any way.



OK................ Agreed............................. No Need to Talk.................. Keep your illegally occupied kashmir (Azad Kashmir & balochistan) and we will keep our kashmir..... nothing going to change:coffee:
 
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India can take its so called 'RED LINES' up its a$$, Pakistan does not consider any of India's red lines, it does not accept any red lines, Pakistan can shove these lines into Indian leaders and tell them, that it can go fck itself as it does not give much value to Indian relations any way.
People like you are the only reason that people have stereotypes about Pakistan and islam,they relate you guys to terrorism all over the world.The hatred for India has destroyed you.You have lost the weapon race with India and you have nothing good to do now.
 
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I feel India didn't cancel the talks due to the meeting with furriyat folks. It's just an excuse to get rid of UPA's policy. In past we talked to Nawaz who had good intentions and things went quite far on paper, but Kargil showed us that he's got no capacity to implement any thing concrete on Kashmir. Pakistan army would always want to be relevant key player. Now probably our government stopped talking as a part of austerity measure, why waste taxpayer's money when nothing's going to change? Or may be it doesn't want another Kargil like incident.
 
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Time for talks are over. Now is the time for affirmative actions. Actions alone will solve the separatist issue, not meaningless dialogue with the one that supports these separarists.
 
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Hi,

All this rhetoric I see coming from india----there is some serious equipment coming from the u s to Pakistan----.

I am looking at this border fence that is india has placed---plus all the sensors and night vision and still crying about incursions----damn.
 
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Hi,

All this rhetoric I see coming from india----there is some serious equipment coming from the u s to Pakistan----.

I am looking at this border fence that is india has placed---plus all the sensors and night vision and still crying about incursions----damn.
Instead of dreaming about US equipment, why don't you also read the recent Pentagon's report on Pakistan's role in terrorism? That will do you much good
 
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Finance minister is doing the talking now. Who is next, Arnab Goswami?
 
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