Pakistan should decide if it wants to talk to India or the separatists: Arun Jaitley

[Judge]

The pertinent questions to be asked are perhaps: What is the common thing? Who decided what becomes the common thing?

Go back to 1993-95. There is a raging insurgency in Kashmir. Indian hold over J&K is tenuous at best. Streets in Pakistan and Kashmir are filled with anticipation, charged with excitement. Indian collapse is imminent, defeat of the IA and 'freedom' of Kashmir only a matter of time.

The government of Pakistan refuses any talks with India until and unless Kashmir is on the agenda. Without Kashmir, there is nothing to talk to India. The Indian government beseeches Pakistan, in futility, for unconditional talks. Indian pleas fall on uninterested ears.

Sounds familiar? Perhaps not. India asking for unconditional talks & Pak imposing conditions...It certainly isn't common now. Is it? But indulge me a bit more.

Go back, again, but this time to 1999. You're now in the Shadow of the Kargil conflict. Pakistan's international standing, despite becoming the newest member into the nuclear club, is at an all time low.

Pakistan wants deliberations with India on the future of Kashmir. However, for the first time, India puts forward their conditions for talks. Terrorism from Pakistan must stop for talks to proceed.

This is perhaps a little closer to the normal, right?

Again, Go back, for the final time, to 2004-05. Pakistan raises the demand for unconditional talks. India refuses. Talks will be dictated by the prevailing environment. Talks can only occur in the absence of violence.

Musharraf would agree, and thus began the CBMs. That was a decade back.

So I ask again. What is the normal?

In less than a generation, the Indian government has reversed the normal on Kashmir and on talks itself, flipped the discourse 180 degrees back at Pakistan.

You've heard, perhaps read, about social engineering. Well, this perhaps is an example of it. But I'd like to call this mindset engineering. For here, the very thoughts, the mindsets, of 190 million people have been tuned to such an effect that almost nobody realizes just how big the turnaround has been. For most Pakistanis, this is how it has always been. This has always been normal.

This doesn't imply that the Indian government or the Indian bureaucracy planned this with Confucian patience. This is perhaps just the pieces falling into the right spot at the right time. Indian government just fumbled their way into a strong position. Of course though, it has been aided in no small part by the shockingly bad diplomacy and the disturbing lack of foresight on the Pakistan side.

There is this interesting quote on the new normal: Because in the New Normal you are more worried about the return of your capital, not return on your capital.

Impressive how you listed out the change in Indo-Pak relations over the decades.
You are right, there is a New normal being made by GoI.

 

[Asian.Century]

People like you are the only reason that people have stereotypes about Pakistan and islam,they relate you guys to terrorism all over the world.The hatred for India has destroyed you.You have lost the weapon race with India and you have nothing good to do now.

Mind telling me from your little brain, what 'people' are you referring too.

Hope you are not assuming the likes of British and Americans, who lied on Iraq having WMD bombs or invading Afghanistan on the pretext, that those 9/11 hijackers whom none, were either Pakistanis or Afghanis came to invade a land on a previous CIA Arab agent, and yet in the process of winning, got defeated fourth time in a row for the British and an utter humiliation for the most powerful super power US in the graveyard of empires called, the Af-Pak region.


India is the reason terrorism and state sponsored barbaric brutalities exist in the South-Central Subcontinent region. India is the reason, which has stereotypes electing infertile, impotent Prime Minister in the shape of Modis who belong to Hindutva RSS terrorist groups, with eloquent CV of Prime Minister having murderous history of conducting terrorism against the Muslims of Gujarat.


Who the f... are you Indians to tell Pakistanis about its red lines, our politicians may be complacent & idiots, but not the 180 million Pakistanis. We give two hoots to your supposed red lines and your weapons races. Pakistan is very comfortably showing bloodied nose every time India crosses its peaceful stature and conducts cross-border terrorists activities. If you are on for a weapons race, Pakistani quality outshines everything India has right now, which has kept it at bay for 67 years, and by your own media and defense analyst admittance, India has lost edge over Pakistan. If there was anything ur insecure weapons race would have done to Pakistan, Pakistan would have been suppressed, divided into many parts, and Indians would actually had courage not to ran away on 2002, 2008 standoffs.

Infact, why not India try its muscle again, Modi and its clowns of ministers from UN, to political help from UK and then to US-India secret meetings, all to isolate Pakistan with repeated cross border terrorism and RAW initiated bombs, has not, I repeat has not had a dime effect on us Pakistanis, Pakistan are not deterred, they will never surrender. Tell me, How many more times India needs to be defeated? Do you have guts to start another aggression on Pakistan? You are a weak divided country....and the more you talk loud and back-stabbing tactics, the more weaknesses Indians exposes itself to us.

Fact is, There is no hatred for India, only because putting India to its rightful place as it has been past 1000 years is the cause here. As sometimes India gets serious traumas of trying to invade and conduct hegemonic attacks on Pakistan time and again, Pakistan is forced to snub and shut up India. Be a nice little pet in your own little home, and all will be very well, peace and calm. You live in your own house, and let us Pakistanis live in our own house, we have no aspirations to become a super power, only respects, right to life and dignity among the community of nations is its goal.

 

[pursuit of happiness]

New Delhi: Keeping a firm stand on India's position on talks with Pakistan, Finance Minister Arun Jaitley said that it for Pakistan to decide whether they want to be in talks with the government or the separatists.

"It is for Pakistan to decide whom they want to talk to. India or the separatist elements. The hostile environment being created at the border is not favourable for talks to continue," he said.

He said that the Indian government has time and again shown its willingness to hold talks with Pakistan but it has to be their decision on which way they want to choose. "Current government has sent a clear signal that we are willing to speak with Pakistan. We invited the head of the government to India at swearing of our government," he said.

View attachment 145712
Jaitley said that there cannot be hostile environment at the International Border for talks to go on.
However, he added that the environment of dialogue has to be set by Pakistan. "There cannot be hostile environment at the International Border for talks to go on. The kind of misadventure when you start killing civilians probably has consequences which will be unaffordable to Pakistan," he said.

Pakistan should decide if it wants to talk to India or the separatists: Arun Jaitley - IBNLive

--
after many monts /decde..
a DM said which shoudl have been said before .. long before

Hurriyat meeting was enough to keep Hindu govt away, and get lost. It will happen every time.

--
for that you have to be in india..
--
Sap - rat- ist ..
what a joke

when you gonna start maan, its been 70 years already

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60 yrs is Con - gressi govt.. made some progess
this govt want to cover those 60 yrs in 10 yr .. so you decide
and they jsut dont speak they working and shoed some result too

India can take its so called 'RED LINES' up its black face, Pakistan does not consider any of India's red lines, it does not accept any red lines, Pakistan can shove these lines into Indian leaders and tell them, that it can go shove itself as it does not give much value to Indian relations any way.

--
we know.. you give a dam.. exa. kargil..
but india and world showed
Be in YOUR limits..

Hi,

All this rhetoric I see coming from india----there is some serious equipment coming from the u s to Pakistan----.

I am looking at this border fence that is india has placed---plus all the sensors and night vision and still crying about incursions----damn.

--
can you elaborate
1. equipment part ?
2. Sensors and incursion ?

We get what we need----.

--
Sir..
i think it like
we Should read what we should ought too .

Finance minister is doing the talking now. Who is next, Arnab Goswami?

--
TT
he is FM And DM

 

[pursuit of happiness]

Lolx...quoting again and again report from Uncle Sam which suits your propaganda machinery, but when same Uncle Sam's Secretary of Defense Chuck Hagle said in his speech that India has “for many years” sponsored terrorist activities against Pakistan in Afghanistan, India again turned on a denial mode...!!

--
chuk hgael ..said somting ok ..wht US Admin said.. /USA govt
US in damage control mode over Chuck Hagel`s India remarks | Zee News
A day after the US embassy distanced itself from Chuck Hagel’s remarks that India has financed problems in Pakistan, now the US Defence Department has issued a statement appreciating India’s role in Afghanistan.

--
What he said , himself..
Mr. Hagel said the U.S. “recognises India’s role in regional security” on Afghanistan. Remarks in 2011 by then Senator Hagel had invited criticism here when he had said “India has always used Afghanistan as a second front, and India has funded problems for Pakistan from that side of the border.”

In Delhi, Mr. Hagel seemed to distance himself from those remarks, and in an answer to a question posed by The Hindu, he said, “Afghanistan is in India’s neighbourhood and India has a critical responsibility in terms of its security.”

Need to co-develop defence equipment: Hagel - The Hindu
---
Pentagon.. US Admin.. nerve centre
Pakistan summons US ambassador over 'unsubstantiated' Pentagon report - Pakistan - DAWN.COM

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THis is called

 

[Donatello]

Akalmand! he has both Finance ministry and Defence ministry.

but not foreign ministry?

Tsk Tsk.....Akalmand.

 

[pursuit of happiness]

Mind telling me from your little brain, what 'people' are you referring too.

Hope you are not assuming the likes of British and Americans, who lied on Iraq having WMD bombs or invading Afghanistan on the pretext, that those 9/11 hijackers whom none, were either Pakistanis or Afghanis came to invade a land on a previous CIA Arab agent, and yet in the process of winning, got defeated fourth time in a row for the British and an utter humiliation for the most powerful super power US in the graveyard of empires called, the Af-Pak region.


India is the reason terrorism and state sponsored barbaric brutalities exist in the South-Central Subcontinent region. India is the reason, which has stereotypes electing infertile, impotent Prime Minister in the shape of Modis who belong to Hindutva RSS terrorist groups, with eloquent CV of Prime Minister having murderous history of conducting terrorism against the Muslims of Gujarat.


Who the f... are you Indians to tell Pakistanis about its red lines, our politicians may be complacent & idiots, but not the 180 million Pakistanis. We give two hoots to your supposed red lines and your weapons races. Pakistan is very comfortably showing bloodied nose every time India crosses its peaceful stature and conducts cross-border terrorists activities. If you are on for a weapons race, Pakistani quality outshines everything India has right now, which has kept it at bay for 67 years, and by your own media and defense analyst admittance, India has lost edge over Pakistan. If there was anything ur insecure weapons race would have done to Pakistan, Pakistan would have been suppressed, divided into many parts, and Indians would actually had courage not to ran away on 2002, 2008 standoffs.

Infact, why not India try its muscle again, Modi and its clowns of ministers from UN, to political help from UK and then to US-India secret meetings, all to isolate Pakistan with repeated cross border terrorism and RAW initiated bombs, has not, I repeat has not had a dime effect on us Pakistanis, Pakistan are not deterred, they will never surrender. Tell me, How many more times India needs to be defeated? Do you have guts to start another aggression on Pakistan? You are a weak divided country....and the more you talk loud and back-stabbing tactics, the more weaknesses Indians exposes itself to us.

Fact is, There is no hatred for India, only because putting India to its rightful place as it has been past 1000 years is the cause here. As sometimes India gets serious traumas of trying to invade and conduct hegemonic attacks on Pakistan time and again, Pakistan is forced to snub and shut up India. Be a nice little pet in your own little home, and all will be very well, peace and calm. You live in your own house, and let us Pakistanis live in our own house, we have no aspirations to become a super power, only respects, right to life and dignity among the community of nations is its goal.

---
you guys first say WMD is lied .. and you guys yourself joined hands in WOT which is next step WOT and WMD was part of it....
---
india is the reason terrorism and state sponsored barbaric brutalities exist in the South-Central Subcontinent regio
-WhereOSAMA was staying ...and killed
where is these UN declared terrorist are living or got killed
-Ilyas Kashmiri,
Ilyas Kashmiri, also referred to as Maulana Ilyas Kashmiri[1] and Muhammad Ilyas Kashmiri[2] (10 February 1964[3] – 3 June 2011[4][5]), was a senior al-Qaeda operative and leader of the Harkat-ul-Jihad al-Islami (HUJI)[6] He was also connected with the Soviet-Afghan war, the Kashmir conflict and attacks against India, Pakistan and the United States.[7] In August 2010, the US and the United Nations designated him a terrorist.[8][9] NBC News reported that United States officials had mentioned him as a possible successor to Osama bin Laden as head of al-Qaeda.[10]
---
-Lashkar-e-Taiba

1. Leadership and Command Structure
   The outfit’s headquarters (200 acres) is located at Muridke, 30 kms from Lahore, which was built with contributions and donations from the Middle East, with Sa
   udi Arabia being the biggest benefactor.
   
   The headquarters houses a Madrassa (seminary), a hospital, a market, a large residential area for ‘scholars’ and faculty members, a fish farm and agricultural tracts. The LeT also reportedly operates 16 Islamic institutions, 135 secondary schools, an ambulance service, mobile clinics, blood banks and several seminaries across Pakistan.
   
   LeT publishes its views and opinion through its Website (jamatuddawa.org an Urdu monthly journal, Al-Dawa, which has a circulation of 80,000, and an Urdu weekly, Gazwa. It also publishes Voice of Islam, an English monthly, and Al-Rabat - monthly in Arabic, Mujala-e-Tulba - Urdu monthly for students, Jehad Times - Urdu Weekly.
   
   Hafiz Muhammad Saeed is the Amir (chief) of Lashkar-e-Taiba.

---
Hafiz Muhammad Saeed
The United Nations declared Jama'at-ud-Da'wah a terrorist organisation in December 2008 and Hafiz Saeed a terrorist as its leader.[9]
Hafiz Muhammad Saeed - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
----
Most of terrosit and org are based in pak .. and nurtured too.. declared terrorist by UN ..
So it pak not india who is nursery of Terrorisam
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So you will staill say india is terrorist and not pak estabsilhemnt

but not foreign ministry?

Tsk Tsk.....Akalmand.

--
Akal -- mannnd ...
he said wrt to current scenarios in between india and pak..
--

 

[Shadow_Hunter]

Lolx...quoting again and again report from Uncle Sam which suits your propaganda machinery, but when same Uncle Sam's Secretary of Defense Chuck Hagle said in his speech that India has “for many years” sponsored terrorist activities against Pakistan in Afghanistan, India again turned on a denial mode...!!

So after denying hundreds of reports published by the US, you are finally clutching to two minutes of his speech in 2011? The video itself was released two years after Hagel made that speech in order to scuttle his nomination as the secretary of defence. Your desperation is showing.

Now how would he know that fact? He's only a analist here on pdf.

Are you saying that analysts on PDF are weak in general knowledge?

We get what we need----.

Only because our economy wasn't doing so good till now. Remember how 2011 was for US-Pakistan relations?

 

[Capt.Popeye]

Are you saying that analysts on PDF are weak in general knowledge?

And are you saying that they are strong in General Knowledge?

 

[Donatello]

So after denying hundreds of reports published by the US, you are finally clutching to two minutes of his speech in 2011? The video itself was released two years after Hagel made that speech in order to scuttle his nomination as the secretary of defence. Your desperation is showing.


Are you saying that analysts on PDF are weak in general knowledge?


Only because our economy wasn't doing so good till now. Remember how 2011 was for US-Pakistan relations?

How was it? How is it now?
Did it matter? Low life Indians will always find some lame excuse.

 

[INDIC]

but not foreign ministry?

Tsk Tsk.....Akalmand.

Sushma Swaraj is the Foreign Affair Minister. PM Modi wanted to keep small size cabinet.

 

[Shadow_Hunter]

How was it? How is it now?
Did it matter? Low life Indians will always find some lame excuse.

It is growing 1.5 times faster than the economy of low life pakistanis

And are you saying that they are strong in General Knowledge?

Hell no, I am just educating one analyst on Indian economy on this very thread since apparently he doesn't know anything about that.

 

[Sheikh Rauf]

Separatist sud be the choice. india is not talking anyways.

[QUOTE"sathya, post: 6386233, member: 33693"]Is there any Azad Kashmir separatist group or party ?[/QUOTE]
There Is no such a thing called Azad Kashmir so there isnt any seperatist moments..
But in INDIAN OCCUPIED KASHMIR have many.

 

[Jzaib]

i dont think time is rite for Pakistan to give any importance to hurriyats ......they have lost the mass appeal in valley ...........and they never had any appeal in Ladakh / jammu region



Arun Jaitley is the most powerful person in Cabinet ....his statements can be regarded as the official stand of the Govt of India

money bags, power or number never scare us .

Why is it stupid? Is Jaitley supposed to tow Pakistan's line? Your government can talk all it wants to whoever, the point is you do not make a public spectacle of it. Have your chaps not heard of a phone? If you want to do grandstanding, surely you must expect the other party to lay down its own lines.

This whole business was a joke, your High commissioner announces loudly that he is meeting seperatists for discussions before FS talks. Why? The FS meeting was to set an agenda, Kashmir was not going to be discussed. Consultation excuse was a joke.Your HC was probably ordered to do so to divert attention or to stave off criticism, so he put the Modi government which had agreed to FS talk in an embarrasing position. You have no one to blame but yourselves.

stupid is the kinda excuses india come up with to spoil relationships. Pakistan have been more then eger to talk but india always halt it .. When PM came to india he didnt visited them. still response was very cold from indian side. They always hand him over charge sheat instead of coming to a constructive solution

 

[Jzaib]

What's so stupid in that, you want concession from India and go on doing bizarre things to show hostility towards India.

what is the hostility . we dnt want any concession. we wanted to solve with standing issue including kashmir ... how is it bizzarre?

Azad Kashmir is more like a colony of Pakistan because those folks have no right to send elected members to Pakistan's Parliament.

lol . well we have given them autonomy so they make their own decisions. That is why they have their own parliament. It is a disputed rigion it should have its own parliament that is what India should demand as well

 

[INDIC]

what is the hostility . we dnt want any concession. we wanted to solve with standing issue including kashmir ... how is it bizzarre?

meeting Hurriyat leaders and enraging India and then again meeting them to further enrage India. you forgetting that Indians are pretty fine with the status quo and even the insurgency in Kashmir is almost dead. Pakistan has nothing to offer to force India for talks and doing this kind of drama is only backlash on Pakistan, not India.

lol . well we have given them autonomy so they make their own decisions. That is why they have their own parliament. It is a disputed rigion it should have its own parliament that is what India should demand as well

Only Colonies don't have right to vote and representation in country's national parliament.