Pakistan should buy Iranian helicopters

[Imran Khan]

Also check this page out http://www.defence.pk/forums/milita...tufan-helicopters-delivered-iranian-navy.html

mantufans was not new its prooved let me show you tufans was upgrades only

look at the contol stick its used at least 10 years

 

[moxin]

why go for the same heli we r using now a days. 10 to 12 years old technology. better option is to go for atak until then our cobras are doing gud

 

[Super Falcon]

iranian helis only have 20 years old technology nothing new in it and why we should buy something which is old when weould we mover forward keep buying old stuff

 

[Simorgh]

Iran has one of the largest helicopter fleets in the world, rivaled only by three other nations, and has a very broad helicopter manufacturing and maintenance infrastructure. Due to sanctions and embargoes, Iran has managed to not only maintain its helicopter fleet, but has since long started to produce its own helicopters, of which there are numerous examples. The parts Iran uses, are Iranian made, by its own industry.

I would like to emphasize that Turkey does not develop any products, let alone military products. They order parts from companies such as Thales, Rockwhell Collins, etc, and put them together, simply put, like a lego helicopter. Though, it is at least further than what the Arabian peninsula are doing, they would have no idea what to do with the parts.

 

[Super Falcon]

my dear friend from Iran but the fact is that your manufacturing technologies are not good enough to counter 20th century weapons sir this is fact if they are good enoough pakistan could have co produced with you this sir i hope you understand

 

[fatman17]

sorry cant help it

 

[Spring Onion]

sorry cant help it

ehhh i was banking on your reply to put up with the prospect.

damn i was right it means

 

[Simorgh]

my dear friend from Iran but the fact is that your manufacturing technologies are not good enough to counter 20th century weapons

You say, "manufacturing technologies", but I presume you mean the technology by itself, rather the technology to manufacture. Why is that a fact? A fact is based on factual data. You might know a lot about Pakistan's military industry, but I have strong reservations about your level of knowledge about the Iranian military industry. You merely look at photos/videos, maybe read some articles from ordinary people like yourself (article writers) with no links to the industry in Iran and assume/presume.

However, even without any factual data, there are some preliminary conclusions one can make. One should look at the military apparatus as a whole, and whether the equipment can optimally perform its job. In this case, you should not expect your military to go through "helicopter dog fights". In terms of military use, Iran daily deploys its helicopters against PKK/PJAK terrorists in northern Iraq, the Iraq border areas, and against Baluchi & Taliban drug trafficers at the Afghan/Pakistan borders. A helicopter is usually deployed against ground targets. Anti-Air defence fulfills the role of cleaning the air of aerial enemies.

Or did you expect to perform one-on-one helicopter dog fights against the US (the largest and main financier of your state), with their apache helicopters? Pakistan deploys its limited number of helicopters against similar targets across its land.

I submit to you the following questions: On what basis do you say that Iranian helicopter technology is lacking? What are the elements that are lacking with regards to the job it is supposed to perform? What do you think you would gain from a helicopter that does have these more advanced elements in comparison to the Iranian helicopters?

sir this is fact if they are good enoough pakistan could have co produced with you this sir i hope you understand

I do not fully understand this part of your reply. Pakistan has no experience in such technologies, and neither does Turkey. Why would Iran want to cooperate with Pakistan on this matter, "if they are good enoough".

Turkey suggested that they want to cooperate on space technology with Iran, but even that would be a one way learning experience benefiting Turkey. Turkey simply has little to no experience on space technology. Unless it brings huge economic benefit, there is no use to it. Note, huge economical benefit is not equal to money, unless it is long term and part of a consistent economical cooperation. Maybe other types of cooperation, who knows, but it needs to be benefiting both sides.

 

[Safriz]

The turkish Helicopter looks very impressive....

 

[flameboard]

my dear friend from Iran but the fact is that your manufacturing technologies are not good enough to counter 20th century weapons sir this is fact if they are good enoough pakistan could have co produced with you this sir i hope you understand

America has investd in Israel basically making it into the largest US Military base ouside of the US. Even with all the latest technologies Israel has received, Iran can still threaten to eliminate this occupier if it feels the need and this is the main reason America is not attacking, besides the reason that America just seems to fail every single time.

The fact that they're manufaturing everything themselves for their military speaks volumes. Even China is stuggling with some of the things they've managed to make.

Look at the Iranian millitary in action The number of terrorits are very low. Iran is the wall keeping opium off of the streets throughout the world, something which many conutries are struggling with. It been doing a better job at combatting extremist elements that Pakistan or US combined.

 

[Jungibaaz]

Pakistan has been offered Ah-1J and guess what Iran's already got those, also they've been upgraded so yeah go suck on that.

Yes, I'm sure the US will provide Iran some more if they want and some spare parts free of charge of-course!

 

[Jungibaaz]

Go do some research they are ahead of the world in some aspects such as Stem Cell Research

Awsome! I had no idea doctors know how to make helicopters, Iran does lead the way!

 

[Jigs]

Iran has one of the largest helicopter fleets in the world, rivaled only by three other nations, and has a very broad helicopter manufacturing and maintenance infrastructure. Due to sanctions and embargoes, Iran has managed to not only maintain its helicopter fleet, but has since long started to produce its own helicopters, of which there are numerous examples. The parts Iran uses, are Iranian made, by its own industry.

I would like to emphasize that Turkey does not develop any products, let alone military products. They order parts from companies such as Thales, Rockwhell Collins, etc, and put them together, simply put, like a lego helicopter. Though, it is at least further than what the Arabian peninsula are doing, they would have no idea what to do with the parts.

Complete. BS.

T-129 TUC-2 will have an indigenous mission computer, indigenous EW and countermeasures, Aselsan AselFLIR-300, Aselsan AVCI helmet-mounted cueing system, Roketsan UMTAS missile, and Roketsan Cirit Laser guided 2.75 in rocket.

I don't see any foreign companies here.

We have production deals for the F-35. That includes composite structures and engines. We produce and test F110-100/129/129B engines, Makila 1A1 engine and DSB engines of F16 aircrafts, Cougar helicopters and NATO AWACS. We do all upgrades in house. We also have tons of 100% Turkish made products especially armored vehicles. You think you have the capability to produce F-16s ? You know we are currently upgrading Pakistani F-16s under the MLU project. We have also done this for Jordan and we have built TAI F-16s for Egypt. What have you done ?


You think your special because you have reverse engineered something from 1970. Buddy we are producing NATO standard stuff for 2010. Come talk to me about how great your manufacturing is when your country moves forward 40 years and has a credible military to play with the big boys. For now your administration can be the laughing stock of the U.N.



I suggest you watch the below video. This is in 09 of the first prototype.

 

[Simorgh]

Complete. BS.

T-129 TUC-2 will have an indigenous mission computer, indigenous EW and countermeasures, Aselsan AselFLIR-300, Aselsan AVCI helmet-mounted cueing system, Roketsan UMTAS missile, and Roketsan Cirit Laser guided 2.75 in rocket.

I don't see any foreign companies here.

We have production deals for the F-35. That includes composite structures and engines. We produce and test F110-100/129/129B engines, Makila 1A1 engine and DSB engines of F16 aircrafts, Cougar helicopters and NATO AWACS. We do all upgrades in house. We also have tons of 100% Turkish made products especially armored vehicles. You think you have the capability to produce F-16s ? You know we are currently upgrading Pakistani F-16s under the MLU project. We have also done this for Jordan and we have built TAI F-16s for Egypt. What have you done ?


You think your special because you have reverse engineered something from 1970. Buddy we are producing NATO standard stuff for 2010. Come talk to me about how great your manufacturing is when your country moves forward 40 years and has a credible military to play with the big boys. For now your administration can be the laughing stock of the U.N.



I suggest you watch the below video. This is in 09 of the first prototype.
YouTube - T-129 // Agusta Westland'?n Haz?rlad??? Video \

I neither meant to insult you, nor your fellow nationals. You're actually talking to someone who is in this field. Let me add a nuance by adding that Turkey actually does what many other European countries do too, with the only difference that EU do actually indigenousnessly innovate on some minor projects and develop a thing or two here and there. Though their motivation for taking the path they do are based on either financial or political reasons, it is not a lack of expertise or technological knowhow.

You mentioned some finished products, I am talking about elements that form a finished products. To put it in terms you might understand, Turkey might have a "Turkish laptop", but its hard disk is for western union, and its CPU is from Intel.

With regards to F-35 I would like to add that Turkey has no knowledge about any of its internals and is merely used for financial reasons. This too is not meant as an insult, the other "cooperating" countries were not allowed either. For example Australia (on of the other "cooperating countries" on the F-35) became very angry that they were being pressured to buy the F-35, without knowing anything about it, and were not allowed to buy the F-22, which did actually did want. Or another example, the Netherlands, who were not even allowed to look in the cockpit or get within 10 feet of the prototype, yet were expected to order before seeing even one of them flying.

These are harsh realities that many nations have to live with, the technological monopolies that have been created will be hard to break. Turkey though, is not one of the countries that is aiming for such goals. Or if they are, it will not be achieved with the path they're going.

 

[Jigs]

I neither meant to insult you, nor your fellow nationals. You're actually talking to someone who is in this field. Let me add a nuance by adding that Turkey actually does what many other European countries do too, with the only difference that EU do actually indigenousnessly innovate on some minor projects and develop a thing or two here and there. Though their motivation for taking the path they do are based on either financial or political reasons, it is not a lack of expertise or technological knowhow.

I don't think you can compare Turkey to europeon arms industry yet. They just don't "innovate" like you say they have a highly advanced arms industry. Look at the Germans they produce the best tank in the world. ( Their L/55 gun is produced under license in the U.S. for the Abrams)

You mentioned some finished products, I am talking about elements that form a finished products. To put it in terms you might understand, Turkey might have a "Turkish laptop", but its hard disk is for western union, and its CPU is from Intel.

That could be said for many many defense products and it isn't anything new. The T-129 is not a Turkish design to begin with. But the many parts in this variant are 100% turkish. (i am not talking about under license production(like the engine will be) but designed and produced in turkey and integrated into a foreign platform) So when you comment about how nothing is developed in turkey they just assembly stuff it is completely wrong. It would be wise to get you facts together or head over to the Turkish Defense section of this forum. See Iran does not produce anything period but take existing technology and produce it once again. Obviously this is also done in a limited scope as one could see from looking at the current condition of Iran's Air force. It is also important to note your own capability.

With regards to F-35 I would like to add that Turkey has no knowledge about any of its internals and is merely used for financial reasons. This too is not meant as an insult, the other "cooperating" countries were not allowed either. For example Australia (on of the other "cooperating countries" on the F-35) became very angry that they were being pressured to buy the F-35, without knowing anything about it, and were not allowed to buy the F-22, which did actually did want. Or another example, the Netherlands, who were not even allowed to look in the cockpit or get within 10 feet of the prototype, yet were expected to order before seeing even one of them flying.

Turkey has knowledge of the needed production of parts. This is done for two reasons. One is sharing the workload to increase production and two this has the added benefit of technical knowledge. For example when Egypt put a order for new F-16s. LM was busy and had their hands full. So they contracted TAI to fill the orders and gain knowledge. From producing composite fuselage parts for the F-35 we gain the knowledge need for advanced composite know how. The same goes for parts production for the F-135 engine. Of course this wouldn't have been possible at all had TAI not had the prior knowledge need from working on F-16s for over 2 decades.

These are harsh realities that many nations have to live with, the technological monopolies that have been created will be hard to break. Turkey though, is not one of the countries that is aiming for such goals. Or if they are, it will not be achieved with the path they're going.

We are looking for a self sufficient military industry that produces modern products to NATO standards (this will be very possible by 2020). We have had many export customers of our products already UAE,Pakistan,Malaysia,Georgia,Azerbaijan etc

Foreign Trade Minister Zafer Çağlayan on Tuesday said current projections show that the country’s defense industry exports would exceed well over $1 billion next year.

I think 1 billion dollars in arms exports is pretty good and it is only increasing. I like this "harsh" reality.