Pakistan’s Quest for Maritime Depth

[Major Sam]

Start accepting the truth. The earlier the better for Pakistan.

.
We accepted , will you go and take rest. not good for your health.

 

[jaibi]

Just by the numbers the greatest discrepancy is between the PN and IN compared to rest of the arms of the military. India can possibly impose a blockade on Pakistan. It's vital to remember that Indian strategy is now connected to disabling rather than attacking Pakistan.

PS can we please be respectful to one another in the threads? If you disagree, fine but why insult the other guy? 'Lols' and 'Go to sleep' on a military discussion? Seems inappropriate and rude.

 

[monitor12345]

And you think the 4 new F23Ps with HQ-16 SAMs,Type54As and 3 Agostas, 6-7 new subs with AIP,1 nuclear sub,12+ Hawkeye PC3 Orions with Exocists,2 sqadrons of fighters armed with RAAD supporting PN,OPH with G combat upgrade with ... and other ships and FACs armed with missiles like super sonic mach 5.5 CM-400,Harpoons,exocists,N Baburs,C-803,C-802As and JF-17s which are also armed with anti missile missiles wont be used?


Lol.. Its connected by both motorway and NHA.. And the Chinese are linking it to Xinjiang through rail and road links.. thts the part under contruction... while we are expanding Ratodero Road or motorway since last few years and its top priority... as gor Chahbahar... Iran wouldnt let you use their port against Pakistan and Iranian support for Pakistan has been proven in the past.. also we are contruction multi billion dollar IP ... while the iranian part has been completed ... contruction is going on in our part.. since last year.


Moron.. im a baluch myself.. and ur fancy wet dream will never come to life you know why? 1st because Iran itself occupies has the region... 2)No support for bla among masses... not even the children of those turds in exile support it..3)The new bill passed by NA ... aka Recognition of Baluchistan right...3)The development being done ... both by the army and the govt... 4)400 militants just surrenders this year...6)The new nationalist govt in Baluchistan composed of nationalist parties... 7)China is already operating the gwadar port..

8)Its so stupid tht im replying to some indian fanboy who doesnt know jack about defence,geography or even international relations.
9)Go take your meds!

I never said that those things wont be used. I meant that Ultimately, IN will be successful in enforcing blockade, as it is better than PN quantity wise & quality wise .

Gwadar is only connected to Karachi only by M8 Motorway. Gwadar to Hoshab, Turbat , Khuzdar section is still under construction since so many years. Your Senate Body has expressed displeasure so many times over the delay. You can't say It is connected to whole country . Many important cities of Punjab which comprises 60% of Pakistan population is not connected. Lahore, Multan, Faisalabad, Islamabad, Rawalpindi are not connected. Are they ? Gwadar is only connected to Karachi. If Gwadar is connected , then why Import & Export is not being carried out except for a few items by the govt. ??

Regarding Iranian permission to let India use their port. I agree that it is very difficult.

Regarding Independent Balochistan . Let me make it clear. It is not my dream. I didn't say that Balochistan will become independent. ( Like I said regarding blockade )
I only told that US doesn't want China to use Gwadar port. US doesn't want the establishment of Trade Corridor from China to Xinjiang. Thats why US is supporting movement for Independent Balochistan, however weak that movement may be. I agree with the reasons given by you.
Dont judge anyone by the number of his posts.

 

[jaibi]

https://thediplomat.com/2013/05/31/recipe-for-disaster-israel-pakistans-sea-based-nukes/

I've found the link, the article posted starts from the fourth paragraph.

 

[The Deterrent]

PN does not have theatre nuclear weapons....its working on it but it has a while to go....minuturization takes time. pakistan has land and air tactical nuclear weapons and is waiting for the TRIAD to establish itself. we dont know the source of this article but i'm guessing the source in indian...

No actually it does, and it achieved this capability 4 years ago.

 

[RAMPAGE]

american tomahawk cruise missile can take off a warhead upto 200kt yeild(as per wiki)

if we could somehow develop a similar destructive warhead for babur even in the range of 50kt.would be enough to destroy a city considering that the bomb dropped on hiroshima or nagasaki both were between 20-25kt

cruise missile with nuclear warhead can be very destructive.

what about ciws,babur's speed is 800 km/h making it very vulnerable to ciws, my uncle works at ndc told me that the engine used is a turbojet not a turbofan but there r plans for a turbofan maybe then babur 2 could go supersonic

 

[Slayer786]

Yes. Blockade is possible. Why not ? Is Pakistan Navy more powerful than Indian Navy ? With What PN will defend Karachi ? PN has a couple of P3C , India has P8I . Pakistan has 4 F-22P frigates . India has several destroyers & few stealth frigates from Russia. In only submarines comparision , Pakistan Navy will remain ahead for maximum of 2,3 years, as from 2015 one Scorpene will arrive every year. Also, PN Surface Ships are sitting ducks for Su-30MKI when Su-30MKI will be able to carry Brahmos air-launched version. Those Air Defense Systems on Pakistan Navy Surface Ships are not enough to repel an attack.
( PAF will be busy with IAF during the war )
About Gwadar , Yes. It " will become " a strategic advantage in " future ". Because Gwadar is not ready yet. Gwadar is not connected to the Highway Network & Railway Network of Pakistan. NHA does not have funds to build roads from Gwadar to different parts of Pakistan. Still now, 60% of imports & exports are handled by Karachi port. Gwadar is not ready yet. India cannot do much about Gwadar due to its strategic location. ( India may ask Iran permission to station some frigates at Chahbahar Port. But Chances of this happening are very less. )
Thats why Baloch people are being encouraged to seek Independence from Pakistan. US does not want China to use Gwadar port. Thats why It is trying to create independent Balochistan. Like It created East Timor, South Sudan, Kurdistan. The process has started. Now US will be more concerned about Human Rights in Balochistan after withdrawing from Afghanistan.

Pakistan actually has 11 combat ships. Four Chinese frigates, 1 US, and six British Frigates. And just by trying to block our port wont achieve India anything as Pakistan has supplies to fight a war for 30-45 days. I think that would be enough time to destroy Indian cities with our superior missiles. Especially the dams in IOK and the oil refineries near our border.
Also, if India was so sure about success in its war with Pakistan, then it would have attacked Pakistan during kargil war or in 2001 when they had a million men ready to attack us or when Mumbai attacks happened.
Indian public might think that India is much stronger than Pakistan, but the indian defense experts know that they are not USA and we are not Iraq.

 

[The Deterrent]

what about ciws,babur's speed is 800 km/h making it very vulnerable to ciws, my uncle works at ndc told me that the engine used is a turbojet not a turbofan but there r plans for a turbofan

Which would definitely explain the reason behind reduced range as compared to Tomahawk.

 

[Saleem]

Pakistan actually has 11 combat ships. Four Chinese frigates, 1 US, and six British Frigates. And just by trying to block our port wont achieve India anything as Pakistan has supplies to fight a war for 30-45 days. I think that would be enough time to destroy Indian cities with our superior missiles. Especially the dams in IOK and the oil refineries near our border.
Also, if India was so sure about success in its war with Pakistan, then it would have attacked Pakistan during kargil war or in 2001 when they had a million men ready to attack us or when Mumbai attacks happened.
Indian public might think that India is much stronger than Pakistan, but the indian defense experts know that they are not USA and we are not Iraq.

we will become worse than iraq in five years time by which time the plan will be complete....no money, no oil, no railways, no electricity, no flight training time for planes, no maintenance [because of no money for spares], remember missles and rockets have a shelf life too, then senior appts in responsible positions made by ganjas and mr 10% and kargil "hero" for 20 years...end of story....

 

[Silverblaze]

Pakistan navy is the weakest link in the armed forces of Pakistan. This has been exploited by hostile countries. Only recently, this seems to be changing, but it is very slow.

Pakistan must improve its economic conditions to spend on Navy and Airforces.

Pakistan navy would become the most important link due to development in Baluchistan.

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

Pakistan actually has 11 combat ships. Four Chinese frigates, 1 US, and six British Frigates. And just by trying to block our port wont achieve India anything as Pakistan has supplies to fight a war for 30-45 days. I think that would be enough time to destroy Indian cities with our superior missiles. Especially the dams in IOK and the oil refineries near our border.
Also, if India was so sure about success in its war with Pakistan, then it would have attacked Pakistan during kargil war or in 2001 when they had a million men ready to attack us or when Mumbai attacks happened.
Indian public might think that India is much stronger than Pakistan, but the indian defense experts know that they are not USA and we are not Iraq.

What superior missiles?
Do you think u don't have dams on your side,or that IAF won't be unleashed in case of missiles flying?

 

[surya kiran]

What superior missiles?
Do you think u don't have dams on your side,or that IAF won't be unleashed in case of missiles flying?

Especially the dams in IOK and the oil refineries near our border.

"Works or installations containing dangerous forces, namely dams, dykes and nuclear electrical generating stations, shall not be made the object of attack, even where these objects are military objectives, if such attack may cause the release of dangerous forces and consequent severe losses among the civilian population."

This is governed by the India-Pakistan Non Attack Agreement.

 

[monitor12345]

Pakistan navy is the weakest link in the armed forces of Pakistan. This has been exploited by hostile countries. Only recently, this seems to be changing, but it is very slow.

Pakistan must improve its economic conditions to spend on Navy and Airforces.

Pakistan navy would become the most important link due to development in Baluchistan.

Very well summed up.

 

[monitor12345]

Pakistan actually has 11 combat ships. Four Chinese frigates, 1 US, and six British Frigates. And just by trying to block our port wont achieve India anything as Pakistan has supplies to fight a war for 30-45 days. I think that would be enough time to destroy Indian cities with our superior missiles. Especially the dams in IOK and the oil refineries near our border.
Also, if India was so sure about success in its war with Pakistan, then it would have attacked Pakistan during kargil war or in 2001 when they had a million men ready to attack us or when Mumbai attacks happened.
Indian public might think that India is much stronger than Pakistan, but the indian defense experts know that they are not USA and we are not Iraq.

Right, Pakistan has 11 ships , but what I meant was only 4 F-22P are latest. Other ships are 30 years old. Other ships are not capable of standing infront of Indian destroyers.
My Point was Blockade is Possible or Not ? The answer is Possible. What India will achieve or not is a different matter. ( Even if Pakistan has supplies for 45 days, alteast imports & exports will be affected , as Gwadar port is still not being used for Imports & Exports, except for a couple of items, which is for a symbolic purpose to show to the world that It is being used. It is not ready yet. ) Also, I agree that even if blockade is successful also, Pakistan will not suffer that much damage as compared to previous blockade. But Exports & Imports will be affected.
I agree that Pakistan military is strong. War will expand in case of blockade, But My point was limited to the Possibility of Karachi Blockade by IN. Whether Blockade is possible or not ? I think IN will definitely try blockade once again.

 

[S.Y.A]

Right, Pakistan has 11 ships , but what I meant was only 4 F-22P are latest. Other ships are 30 years old. Other ships are not capable of standing infront of Indian destroyers.
My Point was Blockade is Possible or Not ? The answer is Possible. What India will achieve or not is a different matter. ( Even if Pakistan has supplies for 45 days, alteast imports & exports will be affected , as Gwadar port is still not being used for Imports & Exports, except for a couple of items, which is for a symbolic purpose to show to the world that It is being used. It is not ready yet. ) Also, I agree that even if blockade is successful also, Pakistan will not suffer that much damage as compared to previous blockade. But Exports & Imports will be affected.
I agree that Pakistan military is strong. War will expand in case of blockade, But My point was limited to the Possibility of Karachi Blockade by IN. Whether Blockade is possible or not ? I think IN will definitely try blockade once again.

your new destroyers will be ready in a decade the rest of the IN fleet is far older than Pakistani one, and rusting away, apart from that, Jf-17s have been integrated with 250km range CM400-AKG, with a speed of Mach 5+, i dont think IN will be able to counter that, to block Pakistani trade through sea IN ships will have to be placed some 200km away from Pakistani coast at max, which is not safe for Indian destroyers, they could be sunk quite easily, PN is not the only one who will have suffer, we will make sure that you lose billions of $$$ too