Pakistan’s Hazaras to take up arms over attacks

[Lavosh2]

@Irfan Baloch Exactly Sir. The people in many segments of society who came for support for protection for Shias and Hazaras may become silent.

The moderate and peaceful people will get marginalized and if they try to speak out, they might become victims themselves.

All LeJ and other terrorists has to do is make another attack, even smaller in scale and you will have a flame thrown in a room filled with highly inflammable hatred and anger gas.

In my field of work we call two species competition and cooperative model.

It has three equilibriums,



But there is a long list of asylum seekers in Canada, Norway etc.

but i don't think these country will provide asylum in big scale , west is facing from from Islamic asylum immigrants .

many asylum immigrants muslims have created problems in europe countries like Denmark , Germany , Uk facing serious threat to social structure from Islamic immigrants , people like German chancellor , UK PM already commented that Multiculturalism is failed in country/Europe (responding to Islamic aggression )

 

[Cheetah786]

@Irfan Baloch Exactly Sir. The people in many segments of society who came for support for protection for Shias and Hazaras may become silent.

The moderate and peaceful people will get marginalized and if they try to speak out, they might become victims themselves.

All LeJ and other terrorists has to do is make another attack, even smaller in scale and you will have a flame thrown in a room filled with highly inflammable hatred and anger gas.

In my field of work we call two species competition and cooperative model.

.

We thought so too! that we will lose the support of silent majority. But thats not the case people are sick and tired of this menace and every body blames the military and law enforcement agencies 100% and they know what will be the consequences if this continues.

No one in their right mind wants a civil war but if the Military inc is looking for one they have got it and without firing one bullet we have defeated them in the eyes of locals and world abroad and you cant have a bigger defeat then losing the confidence of your own people.

 

[illusion8]

thats true
the terrorists and their apologists will find another reason to justify the attacks on Hazaras
its a real shame that the state has resisted their demand to conduct targeted operations against the fararri camps
there have been some raids (on paper) and some token arrests of the Sunni extremist organisation that serves as the politcal front face of LeJ and thats pretty much it.

and LeJ is not bluffing, they will go ahead with their announced attacks. it reminds me of something that happened in parachinar when after continued attacks the shias armed themselves and started fighting back the Deobandi sectarian terrorists but security forces moved in and disarmed the shias and then setup checkposts and then later on watched as the sectarian terrorists resumed their attacks and massacred the shia. thats one of the thing the LeJ has bragged itself in one of its latest open letter.

the sectarian pests are fearless now, you guys say that we are getting the taste of our own medicine but its unfair comment because Hazarras have no role in terrorism in India and the sectarian terrorists who specialise in shia killing have never ever threatened Indian state, they might change their mind and join with LeT to kill shias in India and Kashmir but they are getting very good results here in Pakistan so they wont risk their lives while crossing the border.

if Hazaras went bazzark then these Punjabi terrorists will find no place to hide, they are used to killing unarmed shias but that might change quickly if the Hazaras eventually put their words into action

its a worrying development for Pakistan because all foreign hostile entities will seize this moment. the supporters from UAE and KSA will double their support of LeJ and TTP, Iran and maybe India will will support the shias adding more fuel to the fire.

@Irfan Baloch, you can accuse Indians of other things but this Shia vs Sunni is not something that involves India or most likely will ever involve India because we have a huge number of Shia's and Sunni's and there definitely is no desirability to see any spillage of that violence into India or of India being accused of a hand in the killings of Shia's.

It's pretty saddening to read that security forces are involved in these Shia killings or are supporting LeJ.

It's the same cycle repeating itself from what happened with the Taliban and the ANA - makes one wonder when will Pakistan authorities ever learn that there is no good or bad terrorists - a terrorist is a terrorist.

 

[Cheetah786]

i dont think they'll not do so........or even if they do they cant scan or strip everyone to check weather ones wearing a suicide jacket or not !!!!!!!!

but what they can do is set up a force for their safety with the help of the army or government...which would grant them access to technologies hence forth they will be able to determine who is speaking against them or who is plotting against them......and then later they can take action against them,
just like in many other countries the police is given access to technologies so they can find out who is plotting against the country or an individual,after informing the FC or ARMY of whats to happen, and if they say go for it, then step in for action , the communication between these 2 should not take long so a hotline between the 2 ((FC or Army) and the force) should be established.....


actually the thing is the whole Balochistan region of Pakistan need's a MAJOR OVERHAUL.

How did the tractor trolley carrying some 1,000kg of IED enter the city and easily reach Hazara Town while crossing several police and FC checkposts in and outside the city?

sorry khans sahib those days of shias or Majority Trusting military inc long gone.Look at it this way EX_General in-charge of ISI gets a Job with UAE same UAE thats involved in Baluchistan and doing its best from making Gwadar Port a failed project.How come the guy who was in-charge of protecting pakistan from external threats is working with the external threat?UAE involvement with BLA isn't that big of hidden secret.Ask yourself these questions

 

[newdelhinsa]

There doesn't seem to be any logic or rationality in destabilizing one's own country.

In that case, everyone loses.

Its an effort, an experiment, to make a homogeneous society. I can't believe you being a Chinese have missed that. Its a worth an experiment and it has been on for many years, the difference is the private groups are more proactive than allegedly very few from the establishment.

BTW Hazaras are no where in a capacity to wage an arm struggle in Pakistan. This news is with plenty of media exaggeration quoting some emotional, sad but angry Hazara.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

@Irfan Baloch, you can accuse Indians of other things but this Shia vs Sunni is not something that involves India or most likely will ever involve India because we have a huge number of Shia's and Sunni's and there definitely is no desirability to see any spillage of that violence into India or of India being accused of a hand in the killings of Shia's.
.

this is why I used the word "may"
and indeed there is a big blow back for India if it plays this game which is being played from Middle east to Pakistan.

as far as learning is concerned then it shouldnt be restricted to Pakistan, but Americans should learn that too
recently they lost their ambassador when their embassy was burnt in Libya but they dont seem to give up their habit of stirring trouble. now one of their senators is advocating the Baloch terrorists and wants referendum which is a joke, do you recall how upset the South of USA was after Obama was elected? Texans were even talking about separation then of course it was just momentary but really some people need reality check.

the same Senator has never ever bothered talking about Hazaras ever so its not about human rights and morality but just the NeoCon obsession with redrawing world maps.

coming to India, it has almost same Muslim population and it has to keep a close eye on Iranian and Arab funding and indoctrination of Indian Muslims because as of now if the extremists only have stones to throw at the Shias in Muharam processions, with adequate funding from middle east this might change in to bombs and bullets.

 

[khanboy007]

How did the tractor trolley carrying some 1,000kg of IED enter the city and easily reach Hazara Town while crossing several police and FC checkposts in and outside the city?

sorry khans sahib those days of shias or Majority Trusting military inc long gone.Look at it this way EX_General in-charge of ISI gets a Job with UAE same UAE thats involved in Baluchistan and doing its best from making Gwadar Port a failed project.How come the guy who was in-charge of protecting pakistan from external threats is working with the external threat?UAE involvement with BLA isn't that big of hidden secret.Ask yourself these questions

ur rite an i cant agree with u more,

what im saying is, if with the help of technology those tractors laden with bombs, suicide bombers, undercover agents can be recovered and dealt with, with the help of those people then whats the harm ??

and as far as Gen. Pasha is concerned, it's where he lives (UAE) so to survive he has to say "YES" and is left with no choice, and if u dont want Pasha to work with UAE then why dont u offer him PROTECTION in Pakistan,
PASHA HAD BEEN PROTECTING PAKISTAN LATELY, WHY CANT PAKISTAN PROTECT HIM, IF PAKISTAN IS SO CONCERNED ?????

 

[illusion8]

this is why I used the word "may"
and indeed there is a big blow back for India if it plays this game which is being played from Middle east to Pakistan.

coming to India, it has almost same Muslim population and it has to keep a close eye on Iranian and Arab funding and indoctrination of Indian Muslims because as of now if the extremists only have stones to throw at the Shias in Muharam processions, with adequate funding from middle east this might change in to bombs and bullets.

I agree, Pakistan has been absorbing all the extremism from ME and the Central Asian push towards Shariah & Islamism and have kept India relatively free from it. Pakistan has acted both as a buffer and as a sponge for South Asia, and the fear is that PA might weaken and this bastion might fall or crumble resulting in flowing of this ideology towards India which has a ready population of Muslims to be radicalized. Stability and peace in Pakistan is the immediate concern for India - at the least the PA should not weaken. As for SA funds flowing into India - it already is in large numbers but the state security forces are much stronger to put it down.

as far as learning is concerned then it shouldnt be restricted to Pakistan, but Americans should learn that too
recently they lost their ambassador when their embassy was burnt in Libya but they dont seem to give up their habit of stirring trouble. now one of their senators is advocating the Baloch terrorists and wants referendum which is a joke, do you recall how upset the South of USA was after Obama was elected? Texans were even talking about separation then of course it was just momentary but really some people need reality check.

The Americans are pushed by SA on one hand and Israel on the other - plus they need to maintain influence in North Africa who are majorly Muslims so that China does not gain considerable control there.

Americans also need to get into CAR where the Russians are holding up.

So they cannot give up getting involved in Islamic countries or their matters. As for Baluchistan - I seriously think they are looking at dividing up that region for them to get access to Central Asia, also to deter China and Russia from that region.

the same Senator has never ever bothered talking about Hazaras ever so its not about human rights and morality but just the NeoCon obsession with redrawing world maps.

Rightly said - since when have the West been bothered about anybody if it did not directly concern them?

 

[haviZsultan]

I think this conflict should not be seen on Saudi Arabia vs Iran terms. I don't know why people give that narrative so much credence today. Its a local event, true LEJ is funded by Saudi donors but I don't see Iran in the equation at all. Be easy friends.

 

[KS]

@Irfan Baloch

In India why the shia-sunni fights are restricted to stones is because of two things

---> strict gun control whereby its almost impossible to get any gun worth mentioning legally and no counterpart for "Darra" in India

---> the 800 lb gorilla called "Hindu" in the room. Shia-sunni conflicts get amplified only when there are no one else to quarell with. India has Hindus.

 

[Kaniska]

.

We thought so too! that we will lose the support of silent majority. But thats not the case people are sick and tired of this menace and every body blames the military and law enforcement agencies 100% and they know what will be the consequences if this continues.

No one in their right mind wants a civil war but if the Military inc is looking for one they have got it and without firing one bullet we have defeated them in the eyes of locals and world abroad and you cant have a bigger defeat then losing the confidence of your own people.

I would like to comment on the specific bolded part of the above post.....If you the conduct of Pakistan Army in last 10 years, i can surely say that they are far much more better than the army in Zia period....So blaming army or intelligence for every situation needs to be carefully analyzed before blaming them....

Shia and Sunni conflict is much more to do with the social problem and social fabric of than the security issues....So address the issue from societal perspective rather than expecting Army will do a miracle for a social issue....

 

[Irfan Baloch]

@Irfan Baloch

In India why the shia-sunni fights are restricted to stones is because of two things

---> strict gun control whereby its almost impossible to get any gun worth mentioning legally and no counterpart for "Darra" in India

---> the 800 lb gorilla called "Hindu" in the room. Shia-sunni conflicts get amplified only when there are no one else to quarell with. India has Hindus.

you missed the strict control over money laundering and foreigners funding organisations directly without the approval and knowledge of the state


our country is a slow paced Syrian experiment where middle eastern "non state directors" are spending their extra cash on the groups of their liking

 

[KS]

you missed the strict control over money laundering and foreigners funding organisations directly without the approval and knowledge of the state

You Pakistanis give too much credit to Indian state apparatus.either RAW or this....In reality they are not that efficient.trust me.

Gulf money flows like flood in India, especially in recent times..Not only that also western money in case of the evangelist organizations.

The thing is radicalized muslims are mostly afraid of showing their radicalism outside their comfort environment, mostly for fear of backlash from the Hindus. The fear of state is also there in some states..but in many other states the Govts tend to turn a blind eye for the fear of upsetting the vote-banks.

 

[Abingdonboy]

@Irfan Baloch adding to what @KS has said- the case of India is different as there are strong institutions in India that are able to repel any such inflow of radical ideas, in whatever form the radical threat comes from be it radical Muslims,Sikhs, Chrisitans or Hindus the GoI and relevant states will be able and empowered to combat these fools. Where it counts religious affiliation is drummed out of the aforementioned institutions. The fact is that in nations like Pakistan the security forces and institutions are effectively fighting with a hand tied behind their back as there are those in certain positions who sympathize and facilite the enemy.


Additionally India has succeeded in crafting a national identity wherein 99.99% of Indian residents will identify themselves as Indians first and anything else (religion,creed,caste,colour) a distant second. That Pakistan has failed to do so is a glaring failure and has led to the mess Pakistan finds itself in today.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

@Irfan Baloch adding to what @KS has said- the case of India is different as there are strong institutions in India that are able to repel any such inflow of radical ideas, in whatever form the radical threat comes from be it radical Muslims,Sikhs, Chrisitans or Hindus the GoI and relevant states will be able and empowered to combat these fools. Where it counts religious affiliation is drummed out of the aforementioned institutions. The fact is that in nations like Pakistan the security forces and institutions are effectively fighting with a hand tied behind their back as there are those in certain positions who sympathize and facilite the enemy.


Additionally India has succeeded in crafting a national identity wherein 99.99% of Indian residents will identify themselves as Indians first and anything else (religion,creed,caste,colour) a distant second. That Pakistan has failed to do so is a glaring failure and has led to the mess Pakistan finds itself in today.

till today some army hating media personalities who may or may not be taliban sympathizers put the blame of 40k citizens murdered at the hands of taliban on single lal mosque operation and dismiss the Musharraf and his government claim that the writ of the state was challenged they refer to state writ as some ****** discarded cloth wiz a wiz Lal mosque monkeys.

I still find my fellow soldiers apologetic and trying to defend their fight against the terrorists., something which peace loving Muslims found themselves to be compelled to explain themselves over the actions of 911 terrorists.

why go far

my friend I grew up with is in the SSG and we met after like 15 years and poor chap was explaining himself to me how religious the SSG team including their slayed commander Col Harron was who took part in Lal Masjid operation.

and I had to beg him to stop and told him that he didnt need to explain himself to me. what the SSG team did was very Islamic itself as it countered the fitna (anarchy / chaos) which is the teaching of Prophet Muhammad PBUH who ordered the destruction of a mosque in Madena which was used by miscreants to conspire and cause trouble for rest of Madena residents.


in short my dear, our state and its institutions have failed to sell their fight against the taliban & their different versions