Pakistan, Russia agree to boost defence cooperation

[Irfan Baloch]

Secondly i hope this is not a ploy by Russian to force us to think about investing in S500 SAM project.....

you are a genius.
you just cracked the Russian Gambit

you should be part of Indian strategic planning and review in IR etc

 

[Capt.Popeye]

Thru NATO controlled Afghanistan ???

Even that will not be a dampener for Russia eventually.
Watch the regional re-alignments after the ISAF/NATO draw-down in Afghanistan. Russia and USA will come to a long-term understanding on the connectivity that Russia is looking for, apart from securing their flanks. Even Iran will be drawn on board later through the good offices of Russia and ..............

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Even that will not be a dampener for Russia eventually.
Watch the regional re-alignments after the ISAF/NATO draw-down in Afghanistan. Russia and USA will come to a long-term understanding on the connectivity that Russia is looking for, apart from securing their flanks. Even Iran will be drawn on board later through the good offices of Russia and ..............

then you wake up

 

[Capt.Popeye]

then you wake up

Nope. The neighborhood will wake up. Its not too far into the future BTW.

 

[KRAIT]

Russia trolling India.....by the way what type of defense cooperation they are talking about...which they can't have with India....is it something to do with access to Gulf...

 

[Edevelop]

Oh is that so? Is Gwadar connected to the hinterland by a safe, secure and economical logistical route? Is Balochistan also a peaceful area now that will attract the Russians to use that route?

On balance, Iran is internally peaceful and is rapidly ramping up all modes of connectivity to Gwadar. Why do you think the Russians even actively encouraged Indian engagement with Iran to set Chah Bahar up? Once this Irano-American "hoo-haa" dies down, the Russian plan of action will become even clearer.

Do you know know any history about 'chabahar port'? .... Pakistan gifted it to Iran.
You talk about security in Balochistan? Well let me remind you that Iran is even worse off, as it sanctioned world wide.We'll wait for day 'irani-American 'hoo-haa dies down'. Though i believe by the time relations improve the U.S will collapse on its own.

 

[NALANDA]

And DUDE you don't hold a crystal bowl rather more or less... i never said they are going to seel jack i said it's a small step to who knows what so read, understand and then speak and write don't waste thread space with childesh remarks DUDE.

Hey, you asked us to mind our own business and I told you in no uncertain terms that we consider Russian arms sale to Pakistan is INDIAN business. Now do I need to explain you why?

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Russia trolling India.....by the way what type of defense cooperation they are talking about...which they can't have with India....is it something to do with access to Gulf...

ROFL

I agree.... it wont be anything sensational. fellow Indians quote and Point Iran but with the drum beat of "bomb bomb bomb, bomb bomb Iran" and Western / Arab support of Jundullah terrorists it least likely. the catch I already pointed out is American presence in Afghanistan. so Russia will have to bypass Afghanistan. maybe China etc.

but this all speculations. the Mi-17s are going to become the workhorse of our military and dont really pose an offensive threat to India in a sense. be warned though, our journalists have a habit of talking out of their behinds without any clue. nothing has changed much since Musharraf's last visit when Russia politely refused to sell jets.

Nope. The neighborhood will wake up. Its not too far into the future BTW.

so you kept sleeping and dreaming

 

[DV RULES]

I don't know why this thread expanded to 7 pages, as usual emotional post from Pakistanis and complex posts from Indian members, CAS just Attend Air Force Centenary Air Show and checked technologies and air defense systems and observe status of military relations & future cooperation possibilities. Chances to get something is 10%.

 

[Viper0011.]

Russia selling SAM's to Pakistan is highly doubtful ...unless india wants them to ....
or u know something that we don't ...

I think you are VERY mistaken. I'll let time correct you. I see a Tor-M1 type of a contract on the horizon. You have to understand global politics.
No air chief visits the US and LM facilities unless the US government through back channels (and LM's management) have agreed to a specific deal based scenario (in principle). Visits like these turn into MOU's, which than turn into LOI's and then RFP and then the TOT or non-TOT related issues are ironed out, resulting in a signed deal.

Oh is that so? Is Gwadar connected to the hinterland by a safe, secure and economical logistical route? Is Balochistan also a peaceful area now that will attract the Russians to use that route?

On balance, Iran is internally peaceful and is rapidly ramping up all modes of connectivity to Gwadar. Why do you think the Russians even actively encouraged Indian engagement with Iran to set Chah Bahar up? Once this Irano-American "hoo-haa" dies down, the Russian plan of action will become even clearer.

The Russian 'plan of action' will need to first meet with the United States of America sitting in Afghanistan....BAM!!! (Ouch! I think I just ended your 'the Russian plan'). Next, there are two nuclear powers that are there, China and Pakistan (considering India sides with Russia, the impression I got from your post)

Russia is old news. The future belongs to the US & China. Welcome to 2012. Russia now wants to become an economic power as they've been a part of the BRICS strategy but with lesser growth than others. The only forum Russia can effectively use is the UN and by covert / continuation of the military aid to countries the US doesn't like (Syria, Su dan, etc)

Russia won't be going against the US, UK, France, Israel, China, India and Pakistan. These are all nuclear countries. I also foresee Russia and Pakistan getting closer and starting joint projects or Pakistan getting some TOT on certain items.

I'd even go as far as saying that Russians are very smart people too and thatthey understand the Indian game. After PakFa, they may not have significant business coming in from India as India will have internal capabilities to do major repairs, upgrades, etc pretty much.

 

[MastanKhan]

A very logical analysis and i think you may be right about Russia surprising everyone.
MK you should be a TT

Hi,

Thank you for your consideration---I am one of the senior most TT's on this---but I resigned from my position due to serious difference of opinion a few years ago.


People----you need to learn to make friends with nations----money is not everything. Money---in a relationship reeks of arrogance----nations who have good relations go out of the way to help each other in times of need and hardship.

Most will help you when you have money---what's the big deal about it---what you need is help when you are down and under---.

Saudi arabia has excellent relationship with the united states---off course having money helps a lot---but please let us not make it the 'god' of the relationship.

The attitude and mentality----with money we can get anything----it is a double edged sword as well.

 

[airmarshal]

And with what money will Pakistan buy these Russian Weapons?

I highly doubt that Pakistan can use US Aid Money to buy Russian Weapons.

Pakistan bought new F-16s out of its own funds. This was stated by US. Not 'aid'. Pakistan is still manufacturing and buying JF-17s. And that 'aid' myth be better busted. Not that Pakistan is fully independent but its not as dependent as few million in 'aid' shows it to be.

Realistically speaking what platforms would Pakistan be interested in except SAM defense? I doubt they would go for any Russian aircraft because India has probably evaluated every Russian aircraft being as to how close they are to the Russians.

Pakistan could potentially look for attack helicopters. It needs them for operations in tribal areas. Cobras are very old and need lot of maintenance.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

The Russian 'plan of action' will need to first meet with the United States of America sitting in Afghanistan....BAM!!! (Ouch! I think I just ended your 'the Russian plan'). Next, there are two nuclear powers that are there, China and Pakistan (considering India sides with Russia, the impression I got from your post)

Russia is old news. The future belongs to the US & China. Welcome to 2012. Russia now wants to become an economic power as they've been a part of the BRICS strategy but with lesser growth than others. The only forum Russia can effectively use is the UN and by covert / continuation of the military aid to countries the US doesn't like (Syria, Su dan, etc)

Russia won't be going against the US, UK, France, Israel, China, India and Pakistan. These are all nuclear countries. I also foresee Russia and Pakistan getting closer and starting joint projects or Pakistan getting some TOT on certain items.

I'd even go as far as saying that Russians are very smart people too and thatthey understand the Indian game. After PakFa, they may not have significant business coming in from India as India will have internal capabilities to do major repairs, upgrades, etc pretty much.

Of course the Russians are not stupid, which is precisely why they have calibrated responses to every situation in Asia nowadays. And the Russians have had a very well developed sense of History unlike the Americans who most times have not seen beyond the ends of their noses. Which is why when "The Russian 'plan of action' will need to first meet with the United States of America sitting in Afghanistan", there will be no "BAM,OUCH etc." There will be a meeting and there will simply be accommodation (you have not read/understood my earlier post#92). That is where the Russian Plan will actually "take off". For the simple reason that Russia wants to regain economic power. That will be accomplished by by adjustments and accomodation with USA, which incidentally the USA also sorely requires. In order to put a lid on Afghan affairs when USA re-adjusts its presence in Afghanistan. No US withdrawal, simply re-adjustment. And the USA will need Russia to watch its flank for it.
Watch Putin's moves now. He will not get drawn into any blood-letting while Uncle Sam will (even willy-nilly) parley with him. Both of them need each other to watch each other's back-side, if even to keep the Dragon at bay. That is where they will make common cause.
India does need to side with Russia at all. Rather both of these players will need India as a facilitator at various times.

As for the Pak-Fa deal, it is indicative of the changed relationship between India and Russia now. Rather than just buyer-seller, its more JV partnership now. Both know it and both have adjusted their affairs accordingly. Business will continue, the nature will be different.

Those days of the stereo-typical faceoffs of the Cold War era are over. While the erstwhile main protagonists of that time are some-what weary and emasculated old "war-horses".
While sharing a common wariness about the new "kid on the block".

 

[Mav3rick]

then you wake up

An Indian who actually wakes up...... wouldn't that be the day mate.

 

[KingMamba]

Oh is that so? Is Gwadar connected to the hinterland by a safe, secure and economical logistical route? Is Balochistan also a peaceful area now that will attract the Russians to use that route?

On balance, Iran is internally peaceful and is rapidly ramping up all modes of connectivity to Gwadar. Why do you think the Russians even actively encouraged Indian engagement with Iran to set Chah Bahar up? Once this Irano-American "hoo-haa" dies down, the Russian plan of action will become even clearer.

Iran is not feasible because of sanctions and a possibility of an impending military attack. Not only that but the gulf states are not fans of the Iranians and would not want to see them prosper so would avoid using that route. Pakistan's location gives the Russians a viable alternative than Iran. Provided that Russia can get into Afghanistan somehow (I am sure it is in the works) then Pakistan's port is the next logical destination. Gwadar will have access to all Gulf states, it will also be connected to Iran, and all CAR states through a route from Afghanistan. Also this is not something that will occur in the upcoming number of months, it is rather long term thinking on the part of the Russians.

The civilian projects Russia is willing to participate in is probably for good will among the people more than anything else.