Pakistan rumored to be interested in additional RJAF F-16s

[SQ8]

The F-22 cannot be sold to any other country - by law. And yes, even Israel cannot get those.

I know, my point being was the assertion that is stating cold hard cash somehow is understood as blanket to get anything without other aspects of American interests in play.

The UAE did not get the F-35 even with cold hard cash… but that doesn’t mean it wasn’t able to get its custom(and most advanced for its day and not sold anywhere else) version of the F-16

 

[VCheng]

I know, my point being was the assertion that is stating cold hard cash somehow is understood as blanket to get anything without other aspects of American interests in play.

The UAE did not get the F-35 even with cold hard cash… but that doesn’t mean it wasn’t able to get its custom(and most advanced for its day and not sold anywhere else) version of the F-16

I would see that as F-35s needing more cash than what UAE was willing to provide, that is all, for the capabilities it wished to possess.

 

[SQ8]

I would see that as F-35s needing more cash than what UAE was willing to provide, that is all, for the capabilities it wished to possess.

Rumor has it some tech was refused on the grounds it was equal or more to what the IDF has(even though they have customized theirs)

There are limits to cash as well - but these aren’t unreasonable or negotiable limits which unfortunately Pakistan neither has the cash nor diplomatic nuance to leverage against

 

[VCheng]

unfortunately Pakistan neither has the cash nor diplomatic nuance to leverage against

I can agree with this, and would say no more here.

 

[SQ8]

I can agree with this, and would say no more here.

Ill leave my final word in that there is a level of difference in what the PDF member understands on the type of engagement that happens between LockMart, USAF & PAF - what gets whittled away in the state department due to poor PR and rapport by the Pakistani Embassy folks and associated functionaries and then what translates down to decision makers within the PAF and MoD.

That process is so ridiculously simplified by the fanboyish ideals here that debating upon it for too long is not worth it other than stating that those discussions go beyond price, and into individual components on aircraft and what could translate into providing nuclear capability or but the US in a bind in similar deeper discussions with India and otherwise.

Lastly, despite many a dilution and other lessons - those much derided exchanges and detachments between PAF and USAF are key to keeping the safety and process culture within PAF alive and why best practices learnt there translate with officers posted across other fighter types and so on.

Lose that and see the PAF drop out of the sky on a regular basis as well like certain neighbors(who also have officers who take the same exchanges and trainings that keep a positive impact on that end).

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

@SQ8 has stated as clearly as one could.

Regardless of the politics of US congress & senate---Paf and Pentagon would stay in contact & that is not going to change.

Now only if the Paks had learnt that it was better to have the US parliament on their side rather than the Pentagon---they would have earned better rewards.

With close to 250 + F16 pilots and thousand of support staff and billions in weaponry and equipment---the utility of F16 would stay strong for a long time.

 

[firohot4321]

In recent days multiple sources are suggesting the US has no issues with Pakistan purchasing used F16s from Jordan or other friendly countries.

https://www.facebook.com/ACEofPAF/photos/a.710972692343361/5490818901025359

https://twitter.com/x/status/1584830002197327875

Unless USA funds Mlu upgrades on these

They would be too expensive to bring to modern standard

And have fewer airframe years for the cost

 

[Sayfullah]

Hi,

Pakistan keeps buying the needed equipment---J10's---Type 054's---the JF17 BLK 3's---the submarines coming---and still posters talk about paucity of funds.

They never learn---.

I feel like establishment has their own secret stream on income. They probably have their own secret business involving their agencies which ensures Pakistan has enough money for these accusations. I would be surprised if they didn’t. All agencies have their own ways to generate income like cia.

 

[syed_yusuf]

any thing short of f-16blk52+ C/D with an option of upgrade to V should not be purchased

 

[ziaulislam]

In the past even the cold hard cash didn't give us what we wanted ($658 million in 1989 for F16s).

US is not Russia who would sell you anything just because you show funds. $800 million don't mean much to US, after all.

I am sure that you would try to pin it again on Pakistan but the fact is that this isn't a simple issue of funds.

Guy has no idea how weapon sale work
They go through congress

In 1990s they were no nukes. Nothing had changed except for Berlin war.

Pakistan may be useful again untill the. Adeios

 

[Vapnope]

$658 million against stopping a nuclear explosion?
It isn’t a simple issue of funds because that would be naive since cold hard cash will not get the US to sell the F-22 to China. No one is making that idiotic assertion - but the subject is today’s scenario where what is available(and technically sold) to Pakistan like the AH-1Z and even additional new F-16s are only awaiting cash.

Are you saying that F16 blk 70/72 is available if we have cash? Just wanted to make sure that we are on a same point.

 

[SQ8]

Are you saying that F16 blk 70/72 is available if we have cash? Just wanted to make sure that we are on a same point.

Yes

NOW -

Are 6 of them available?
Unlikely

Measure it against the deals in progress with India and how they would be impacted from a

1.US Foriegn Military Sales perspective
2. Conventional Balance perspective from the state department

1. Means that you have to have a worthwhile deal for them to say I am willing to risk an unknown deal like the F/A-18F IN deal for a known deal of 36 new build F-16Vs from Pakistan along with upgrade kits that if not exceeding the value of the Indian deal is a sure shot cash in the account while still letting me salvage the Indian deal by perhaps offering them something superior in the superhornet versus what I would give Pakistan in the V.

2. Means that if I give Pakistan the required will it mean that India will panic so much they will start buying a lot more arms and from sourced other than me to make up and also will that mean Pakistan now will get more confident and perhaps get more aggressive towards Kashmir than the peace focus I want them on so I can focus on removing China further from this area.

So yes, have cash will travel but that has to be cash that makes it worthwhile

 

[White privilege]

I believe anyone who tries to dis the Viper against J-10 or any other Cheeni Maal , w/o any hard data, is just ranting. But the fact remains, we didn't get F-16s because of goodwill on part of the Americans, we got it because we leveraged the geopolitics right. Americans won't forget it, and won't forgive us. Every now and then, they try to throw us the Viper candy because they know we would eat it off the floor. About time we grew a spine and stood up for ourselves. We are a fighting Air force. We have to fight with what we can field w/o threat of sanctions during hostilities. It would be costly, but move away from the Viper is inevitable, sadly.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

I feel like establishment has their own secret stream on income. They probably have their own secret business involving their agencies which ensures Pakistan has enough money for these accusations. I would be surprised if they didn’t. All agencies have their own ways to generate income like cia.

Yep, that's the case @MastanKhan is making. It's not just 'secret streams' but the fact that the military is a key player in our economy. It might not be efficient from a growth and wealth distribution standpoint, but it does mean that the military generates lots of revenue. If Egypt can bankroll big-ticket purchases, so can Pakistan.

 

[MastanKhan]

I feel like establishment has their own secret stream on income. They probably have their own secret business involving their agencies which ensures Pakistan has enough money for these accusations. I would be surprised if they didn’t. All agencies have their own ways to generate income like cia.

Hi,

They do---.

Maybe some of this could be from housing societies---. Who knows---but we all know that they have some very successful industrial ventures---.

We got the 4 type 054's----1 sqdrn of J-10's---more coming---Blk3 sqdrn getting ready---the drones----the corvettes----and other paraphernalia---a lots of it---and supposedly 8 submarines that are starting to be delivered pretty soon..

This equipment did come from paying someone---meant there must have been funds coming from somewhere---.

Pak military equipment does not appear to be of an army that is a poor nations military---.