Pakistan pushed Afghan insurgents to the table: Experts

[Marwat Khan Lodhi]

@Zarvan @Pak-one both of you are putting up good arguments, since i never lived in tribal area so I cannot comment on ground realities, my arguments will be based on what i have heard from people in armed forces, media and some fellow members like you. Since last night there seems to be a confusion between people of FATA / Tribals and the TTP. you are advocating for the people of tribes who have joined the force with TTP, you are portraying as if TTP is a result of aftermath of PA operation in FATA, same as Afghan Taliban emerged as a force to fight atrocities committed by local war lords in the 80s.
however this is not the case with TTP, because they are a mesh work of many other local militant groups. If you are advocating that why FATA was invaded by PA than my response is that for very same reason Afghanistan was invaded by US / NATO. Taliban were asked by the Authorities to give up the Guests they had, but they refused hence an operation was necessary to launch.

Many pakistanis think that Afghan taliban are genuine ones while pakistani ones are agents of CIA and RAW....i dont agree with them. If you go back you would remember that at one point Taliban were seem to be completely suppressed and defeated in Afghanistan, then they slowly emerged and became active around 2006 and became quite a strength around 2008......it is a natural response that you would observe in pashtun population against foriegn occupation. Due to desperate situation and against powerful enemy, they resorted to suicide bombings and what not.

In FATA there was no such thing as taliban before 2001 and even before 2006, pak army military operations and their presence gave birth to anti-army tribals who started calling themeselves taliban.....the formation of TTP by baitullah mehsud was in direct response to fauji action on lal masjid and their extended their activities to KPK and rest of Pakistan. So both afghan taliban and TTP have same enemy "America and its servants". Afghan taliban are attacking american and its allies in Afghanistan while TTP is attacking america's servant i.e pak army in pakistan.....they are spirtual brothers of each other and are fighting America directly in Afghanistan and indirectly in pakistan by attacking its partner in crime.

 

[Zarvan]

@Zarvan @Pak-one both of you are putting up good arguments, since i never lived in tribal area so I cannot comment on ground realities, my arguments will be based on what i have heard from people in armed forces, media and some fellow members like you. Since last night there seems to be a confusion between people of FATA / Tribals and the TTP. you are advocating for the people of tribes who have joined the force with TTP, you are portraying as if TTP is a result of aftermath of PA operation in FATA, same as Afghan Taliban emerged as a force to fight atrocities committed by local war lords in the 80s.
however this is not the case with TTP, because they are a mesh work of many other local militant groups. If you are advocating that why FATA was invaded by PA than my response is that for very same reason Afghanistan was invaded by US / NATO. Taliban were asked by the Authorities to give up the Guests they had, but they refused hence an operation was necessary to launch.

sir your army started operation in 2003 and at the end off 2006 they formed ttp first it was a small group but army kept on doing operation which resulted in death off thousands off civilian and because off that majority tribes are supporting TTP and hatred against army is on alarming level sir and other militant joined them after army operations sir and now USA is running away and if you still keep killing tribals you may face Afghan Taliban which just defeated USA and NATO so better talk to our own people and stop this non sense off who killed who both have now killed each other but it was army who started operations

 

[Slav Defence]

I don't understand,Mr.Karzai is not taking part in this conference while Talibans and Us representatives are?
And even though US authorities don't even give a damn to Mr.Karzai's participation?

 

[Zarvan]

There is a lot of sympathy for the Afghan Taliban in Pakistan. In my eyes it is a big mistake, this sympathy for the Afghan Taliban and painting them uselessly as heroes. Afghan Taliban are as brutal or perhaps even worse than their Pakistani Taliban brethren. The only difference is they target Afghans and not Pakistanis.

The question we Pakistanis should ask is how can we want something bad for another country when we criticize the same thing happening in ours. For example we readily condemn blasts in Pakistan but often we ignore the blasts in Afghanistan, How can we want for our neighbor something we don't want for ourselves. This attitude of ours is part of the problem which is not letting Afghan and Pakistani ties to improve.

sir Afghan Taliban are fighting USA and NATO for freedom and they are heroes and would remain solo no USA touts can change that

 

[Slav Defence]

sir Afghan Taliban are fighting USA and NATO for freedom and they are heroes and would remain solo no USA touts can change that

and so TTP?

 

[Zarvan]

and so TTP?

TTP is mostly busy with Pakistan and in some cases also Afghanistan

 

[Slav Defence]

TTP is mostly busy with Pakistan and in some cases also Afghanistan

Mr.Zarvan,you understand Afghan Taliban as 'Hero' I understand that,but what do you think about TTP?

 

[Amaa'n]

I don't understand,Mr.Karzai is not taking part in this conference while Talibans and Us representatives are?
And even though US authorities don't even give a damn to Mr.Karzai's participation?

The problem is Afghan Taliban never accepted Afghan Taliban since 2002, when Afghan Constitution was enforced , Afghan Taliban / Mullah Omar never liked Karzai, they refused to accept his govt. That is why you see Karzai jumping up and down like a goon. They are of view that Karzai and this govt is non representation of people of Afghanistan, and this constitution is unislamic.
US tried to get away with this condition of Taliban, but they refused, so the last resolve was to go ahead without Karzai. If you read todays report by talat hussain you will see that Pakistan gave US to choice between Afghan peace and Karzai....and we all know US very well, they wanted a clear withdrawal and they dont give a damn about karzai and co.

 

[Amaa'n]

sir your army started operation in 2003 and at the end off 2006 they formed ttp first it was a small group but army kept on doing operation which resulted in death off thousands off civilian and because off that majority tribes are supporting TTP and hatred against army is on alarming level sir and other militant joined them after army operations sir and now USA is running away and if you still keep killing tribals you may face Afghan Taliban which just defeated USA and NATO so better talk to our own people and stop this non sense off who killed who both have now killed each other but it was army who started operations

my point again you are confusing TTP with Tribals. I am of view same as you we need to bring back those strayed ones, but those who actually started this all fasad should be hanged, those are the founders of this group. We need to separate those tribals from TTP, as TTP has LeJ , chechens working with them, and chechens are the hardcore militants / terrorists, and mind it there should be no relief for them, they are the ones we need to crush...

 

[Slav Defence]

The problem is Afghan Taliban never accepted Afghan Taliban since 2002, when Afghan Constitution was enforced , Afghan Taliban / Mullah Omar never liked Karzai, they refused to accept his govt. That is why you see Karzai jumping up and down like a goon. They are of view that Karzai and this govt is non representation of people of Afghanistan, and this constitution is unislamic.
US tried to get away with this condition of Taliban, but they refused, so the last resolve was to go ahead without Karzai. If you read todays report by talat hussain you will see that Pakistan gave US to choice between Afghan peace and Karzai....and we all know US very well, they wanted a clear withdrawal and they dont give a damn about karzai and co.

Well I have heard a story about Mr.Karzai that he was employee of ENRON company of Bush senior,wallah alam bis sawab.
I have seen a program of TV one news channel in which the journalist was taking an interview with Afghan Taliban.
During his interview when journalist asked to his connective links with TTP,he strongly denied saying:"When we found out that they are targeting Pakistan we strongly forbid them,and when they denied,we broke our connection with them"
I was very much shocked and confused to see his interview
As @Last Hope said in one of his threads about false image that our media projects.I wonder that is our media projecting?an image that Afghan Taliban and TTP are derivatives of same organisation ?What is the actual truth?

 

[Amaa'n]

Many pakistanis think that Afghan taliban are genuine ones while pakistani ones are agents of CIA and RAW....i dont agree with them. If you go back you would remember that at one point Taliban were seem to be completely suppressed and defeated in Afghanistan, then they slowly emerged and became active around 2006 and became quite a strength around 2008......it is a natural response that you would observe in pashtun population against foriegn occupation. Due to desperate situation and against powerful enemy, they resorted to suicide bombings and what not.

is that your justification for destroying mosques, so if the infidel PA destroys LAL Masjid than what does it make TTP bombers who blew up not one mosque but many ?

In FATA there was no such thing as taliban before 2001 and even before 2006, pak army military operations and their presence gave birth to anti-army tribals who started calling themeselves taliban.....the formation of TTP by baitullah mehsud was in direct response to fauji action on lal masjid and their extended their activities to KPK and rest of Pakistan. So both afghan taliban and TTP have same enemy "America and its servants". Afghan taliban are attacking american and its allies in Afghanistan while TTP is attacking america's servant i.e pak army in pakistan.....they are spirtual brothers of each other and are fighting America directly in Afghanistan and indirectly in pakistan by attacking its partner in crime.

Tribal militias have already been their, some being pro Govt and some being anti. some of the tribes never like Govt stepping into their turf, even though it was part of Pakistan.
oh bhai, which army are they fighting with? All i saw was schools getting blown up in pieces, funerals bombed, schools bombed.

My dear Afghan Taliban / Mullah omar never accepted TTP as their faction, it is TTP who is singing this song about Amir ul momineen Mullah Omar, they have disassociated themselves from TTP. though they have connections ( like a militant to militant ) but no real affiliation

On the other hand now that AT and US are in talks, why not TTP to the table for talks too? they simply refuse everytime, and why is that TTP tip off CIA to bomb wali us rehman? he was their brother...have some respect, if he was traitor than even a traitor deserves a respectful death

 

[Amaa'n]

Well I have heard a story about Mr.Karzai that he was employee of ENRON company of Bush senior,wallah alam bis sawab.
I have seen a program of TV one news channel in which the journalist was taking an interview with Afghan Taliban.
During his interview when journalist asked to his connective links with TTP,he strongly denied saying:"When we found out that they are targeting Pakistan we strongly forbid them,and when they denied,we broke our connection with them"
I was very much shocked and confused to see his interview
As @Last Hope said in one of his threads about false image that our media projects.I wonder that is our media projecting?an image that Afghan Taliban and TTP are derivatives of same organisation ?What is the actual truth?

TTP emerged same as Afghan Taliban, but than it all got messy with other militant factions joining them including LeJ, Punjabi taliban, some small timers, and foreign fighters including uzbeks and chechens. Jhang, bhawalpur and Rahim Yar Khan acted as a training ground and source of funding for them.
now don't ask how Taliban emerged / formed...Initial number of taliban were something like 30 I guess and had only few rifles, they emerged from a local tribe to fight against local warlords post afghan - soviet war....do not confuse taliban with mujahideen ...though they are somewhat same

 

[Marwat Khan Lodhi]

is that your justification for destroying mosques, so if the infidel PA destroys LAL Masjid than what does it make TTP bombers who blew up not one mosque but many ?

Tribal militias have already been their, some being pro Govt and some being anti. some of the tribes never like Govt stepping into their turf, even though it was part of Pakistan.
oh bhai, which army are they fighting with? All i saw was schools getting blown up in pieces, funerals bombed, schools bombed.

My dear Afghan Taliban / Mullah omar never accepted TTP as their faction, it is TTP who is singing this song about Amir ul momineen Mullah Omar, they have disassociated themselves from TTP. though they have connections ( like a militant to militant ) but no real affiliation

On the other hand now that AT and US are in talks, why not TTP to the table for talks too? they simply refuse everytime, and why is that TTP tip off CIA to bomb wali us rehman? he was their brother...have some respect, if he was traitor than even a traitor deserves a respectful death

Killing of civilians both by taliban and pak army is wrong....TTP focuses nowdays mosly on attacking pak army and spares civilians which is a good development.

 

[WarMonger]

Killing of civilians both by taliban and pak army is wrong....TTP focuses nowdays mosly on attacking pak army and spares civilians which is a good development.

In Tirah valley too the TTP didn't use any Suicide bomber against Pak Army to avoid civilian casualties.

 

[Marwat Khan Lodhi]

Tribal lashkars are raised according to pakhtunwali, not for pak army...those lashkars which are raised by political agent and pak army are weak and fail to give desired results.

Only following tribes have genuinely raised tribal lashkars to defend themeselves from uninvited taliban aggression.
1- Mullagori tribe of khyber agency
2- Marwat tribe
3- people of dir
4- people of buner