Pakistan pushed Afghan insurgents to the table: Experts

[Bratva]

Sir if you wouldn't have attacked them this wouldn't had happened you attacked them gave them the chance pushed them to Militancy you ignited the fire and now are facing the fire yourself Sir and those foreigners were now part of that society instead of bringing them into mainstream you attacked them to please USA and same USA is talking to those guys so they can run away leaving you behind to face trouble and hell


Naik Muhammad didn't broke any accord Sir it was USA pressure Army entered tribal areas and they entered in 2003 for few months fought and than tried to make peace with Naik Muhammad and your ally USA killed him and than you again started operation and in 2006 they formed TTP to take revenge and from that day on Pakistanis have forgotten the meaning of peace so if you think you can win against them by force do it you will fail again and again and again

Atleast @Pak-one is more knowledgeable than you, that's why he didn't used this argument in this debate, why because @Rabzon sir has shared a great timeline and history lesson of 2004. Unless you educate yourself properly, these ignorant remarks of yours would be duly ignored!

O.k these stupid tribals should have been sorted out by America itself. Dont you agree that if America has directly conducted air and ground operations in FATA with secret permission of pak army then tribals would have been engaged in war with americans instead of pak army and their focus would have been american bases in afghanistan not GHQ

Did Pak Army dishonor their pact with waziris? Did Waziris Dishonor their pact their pact? Both are successfully holding their promises for many years. Why? Because waziris started controlling those guests in the area and kept their lands from launching attacks against any foregin entity.

Why such wisdom can not be shown by mehsuds and other so called warrior tribes fighting Pak Army? Are these people so fond of creating Fitna?

 

[Zarvan]

Atleast @Pak-one is more knowledgeable than you, that's why he didn't used this argument in this debate, why because @Rabzon sir has shared a great timeline and history lesson of 2004. Unless you educate yourself properly, these ignorant remarks of yours would be duly ignored!



Did Pak Army dishonor their pact with waziris? Did Waziris Dishonor their pact their pact? Both are successfully holding their promises for many years. Why? Because waziris started controlling those guests in the area and kept their lands from launching attacks against any foregin entity.

Why such wisdom can not be shown by mehsuds and other so called warrior tribes fighting Pak Army? Are these people so fond of creating Fitna?

Sir this pact was done few years ago because your Army was fed up of fighting and now they were tired of fighting Sir and by the way this pact was done on the bases that Wazris would be allowed to fight against USA and they would not be stopped you are mass murdering their people and you want them to have peace with you just pullout Sir you will have to do it other wise USA leaves Afghanistan and you still fighting TTP you can end up in trouble with Afghan Taliban too so better solve your problems before USA runs away because your so called ally would every time make sure you end up in more trouble but you are always ready to please USA

 

[Marwat Khan Lodhi]

Atleast @Pak-one is more knowledgeable than you, that's why he didn't used this argument in this debate, why because @Rabzon sir has shared a great timeline and history lesson of 2004. Unless you educate yourself properly, these ignorant remarks of yours would be duly ignored!



Did Pak Army dishonor their pact with waziris? Did Waziris Dishonor their pact their pact? Both are successfully holding their promises for many years. Why? Because waziris started controlling those guests in the area and kept their lands from launching attacks against any foregin entity.

Why such wisdom can not be shown by mehsuds and other so called warrior tribes fighting Pak Army? Are these people so fond of creating Fitna?

I dont think Nek mohammad had the power to convince foriegn militants to register themeselves. Some thing must have went wrong. He agreed on registering foriegners but none of them showed themeselves for registration. Later we know that same ahmadzai wazirs under maulvi nazir had to get rid of uncontrolled and over-powered uzbeks...
Believe me nek mohammad was not different from maulvi nazir and you know that because of maulvi nazir you got peace in wazir belt of south waziristan.
Pak army decision to start operation against nek mohamad again was wrong...the ahmadzai jirga should have been questionable for their failure...pak army also made the mistake of negotiating with one person nek mohammad while you are supposed to negotiate with whole tribe...
When pak army failed against nek mohammad, they decided to kill him through american drone. This was blunder of greatest proportion and was turning point, .....now in 2013 your have to station 1.5 lakh troops in FATA...

At the end you accepted maulvi nazir and hafiz gul bahadur control on wazir areas of waziristan. Pak army Should have shown the same flexibility to nek mohammad. You attacked FATA and the foriegn guests, who were hiding and dormants, were forced to take up arms again and they spill over to rest of Pakistan. You know that these were "same mujahideens" who were allowed to settle in FATA by pak army after russian-afghan war....you disturbed their peaceful lives and agitated them towards terrorism...i refuse to accept that they were involved in bomb blasts in europe.

 

[Zarvan]

I dont think Nek mohammad had the power to convince foriegn militants to register themeselves. Some thing must have went wrong. He agreed on registering foriegners but none of them showed themeselves for registration. Later we know that same ahmadzai wazirs under maulvi nazir had to get rid of uncontrolled and over-powered uzbeks...
Believe me nek mohammad was not different from maulvi nazir and you know that because of maulvi nazir you got peace in wazir belt of south waziristan.
Pak army decision to start operation against nek mohamad again was wrong...the ahmadzai jirga should have been questionable for their failure...pak army also made the mistake of negotiating with one person nek mohammad while you are supposed to negotiate with whole tribe...
When pak army failed against nek mohammad, they decided to kill him through american drone. This was blunder of greatest proportion and was turning point, .....now in 2013 your have to station 1.5 lakh troops in FATA...

At the end you accepted maulvi nazir and hafiz gul bahadur control on wazir areas of waziristan. Pak army Should have shown the same flexibility to nek mohammad. You attacked FATA and the foriegn guests, who were hiding and dormants, were forced to take up arms again and they spill over to rest of Pakistan. You know that these were "same mujahideens" who were allowed to settle in FATA by pak army after russian-afghan war....you disturbed their peaceful lives and agitated them towards terrorism...i refuse to accept that they were involved in bomb blasts in europe.

None of them was specially Sir and the attacks this mafiya is mentioning took place after Army started operations against these militants not before that so mafiya point is proven wrong here

 

[Marwat Khan Lodhi]

Atleast @Pak-one is more knowledgeable than you, that's why he didn't used this argument in this debate, why because @Rabzon sir has shared a great timeline and history lesson of 2004. Unless you educate yourself properly, these ignorant remarks of yours would be duly ignored!



Did Pak Army dishonor their pact with waziris? Did Waziris Dishonor their pact their pact? Both are successfully holding their promises for many years. Why? Because waziris started controlling those guests in the area and kept their lands from launching attacks against any foregin entity.

Why such wisdom can not be shown by mehsuds and other so called warrior tribes fighting Pak Army? Are these people so fond of creating Fitna?

Do you remember abdullah mehsud? That twisted guy was probably working for CIA, baitullah mehsud suspected him as CIA agent and tried to get rid of him and his followers. Abdullah mehsud introduced beheadings, suicide bombings etc into taliban...these twisted tactics proved effective and unfortunately mehsud taliban after him carried on his legacies, they killed hundreds of mehsud malaks......and you should be thankful for that, because if they had not resorted to terrorism, you could have observed huge support for them in pashtun belt...

None of them was specially Sir and the attacks this mafiya is mentioning took place after Army started operations against these militants not before that so mafiya point is proven wrong here

You are right. Nek mohammad naturally bounced back after military operation was started against him after shakai deal.

 

[Secur]

You attacked FATA and the foriegn guests, who were hiding and dormants, were forced to take up arms again and they spill over to rest of Pakistan.

The usage of the word ' attack ' would somehow imply that F.A.T.A. hasn't been a part of Pakistan and the entering of the country's forces was some sort of invasion and not an operation against militants in that region , why is that ?

If someone really messed it up , it was Al Qaeda being sheltered by Taliban's Mullah Omar who despite calls of turning the ' guests ' in by the Kingdom and Pakistan , didn't do so , the Govt of Pakistan was left with no choice because the Americans were in a rage after the attack on twin towers and the ' threat ' of bombing was real . The Afghans may have had nothing to lose living in a stone age , but Pakistan had .

None of them was specially Sir and the attacks this mafiya is mentioning took place after Army started operations against these militants

Why do you think the same old broken tape of ' Pakistani forces starting operations in tribal areas ' even works any longer ?

 

[Zarvan]

The usage of the word ' attack ' would somehow imply that F.A.T.A. hasn't been a part of Pakistan and the entering of the country's forces was some sort of invasion and not an operation against militants in that region , why is that ?

If someone really messed it up , it was Al Qaeda being sheltered by Taliban's Mullah Omar who despite calls of turning the ' guests ' in by the Kingdom and Pakistan , didn't do so , the Govt of Pakistan was left with no choice because the Americans were in a rage after the attack on twin towers and the ' threat ' of bombing was real . The Afghans may have had nothing to lose living in a stone age , but Pakistan had .



Why do you think the same old broken tape of ' Pakistani forces starting operations in tribal areas ' even works any longer ?

Sir your Army is still an ally of USA and that is enough for those who are fighting against you to get man power Sir and they would keep getting it until you stop being partner of USA and stop attacking your own people other wise this war would never end

 

[Gentelman]

You were asking them to turn over their arab and other foriegner guests with whom they had made rishtadari through marraiges...you were doing so on american orders.
Instead of making drone contracts with america, doing operations in their behalf.....pak army should have allowed America to conduct both air and ground operations by itself in FATA.....In this way tribals would have been in war with america instead of pakistan and no taliban phenomena would have emerged.

the most shitty explanation and theories ever heard……
some people have some unknown probs some where thats why they blams just 1 institute…
same here……
Army has nothing to do with permissions of drons attacks and one must know that Mush gave permissions as president not as an Army Chief
and what had Civilian president(Zardari) done??

Sir your Army is still an ally of USA and that is enough for those who are fighting against you to get man power Sir and they would keep getting it until you stop being partner of USA and stop attacking your own people other wise this war would never end

Pak is fighting for noone at present
yeah Zia & Mush sucked and provided shelter to talibs here(zia) and mush attacked them without doing any discussions soo now situation is changed…
and about TTP you should reconsider it is a terror org who have nothing to do with Freedom fighters……

 

[Marwat Khan Lodhi]

The usage of the word ' attack ' would somehow imply that F.A.T.A. hasn't been a part of Pakistan and the entering of the country's forces was some sort of invasion and not an operation against militants in that region , why is that ?

If someone really messed it up , it was Al Qaeda being sheltered by Taliban's Mullah Omar who despite calls of turning the ' guests ' in by the Kingdom and Pakistan , didn't do so , the Govt of Pakistan was left with no choice because the Americans were in a rage after the attack on twin towers and the ' threat ' of bombing was real . The Afghans may have had nothing to lose living in a stone age , but Pakistan had .



Why do you think the same old broken tape of ' Pakistani forces starting operations in tribal areas ' even works any longer ?

If FATA is that much part of Pakistan then why pak army has given permission of drone strikes to America, i remember drone strike was done on FR bannu and pakistan created lot of noise on this and america assured that they wont carry out another drone strike 'proper' pakistani territory..Musharraf even allowed american troops to carry out ground operations few kms inside FATA.
And dont spread propaganda about mullah omar, he said that America should provide proof of bin laden involvement, he would be trialed in islamic court and that he would handed over to only a muslim country...mullah omar was not beghairat like your musharaf who handed over aafia sadiqui to america and hundreds others for dollars.

 

[Secur]

If FATA is that much part of Pakistan then why pak army has given permission of drone strikes to America, i remember drone strike was done on FR bannu and pakistan created lot of noise on this and america assured that they wont carry out another drone strike 'proper' pakistani territory..Musharraf even allowed american troops to carry out ground operations few kms inside FATA.
And dont spread propaganda about mullah omar, he said that America should provide proof of bin laden involvement, he would be trialed in islamic court and that he would handed over to only a muslim country...mullah omar was not beghairat like your musharaf who handed over aafia sadiqui to america and hundreds others for dollars.

For one , the drone attacks are useful in getting rid of militants with low collateral damage . The armed forces of Pakistan cant engage the extremists everywhere . As for FR Bannu part , the half of problem lies in the tribal areas , right ? Since the war is being fought there and nowhere else .

Yeah , Mullah Omar is the savior , right ? Guess what , he ruined his country and lost his Govt for another terrorists who later acknowledged carrying out the bombing . I will leave the rest of ' drama ' here . You can continue making stories up just like usual . Savvy ?

 

[Zarvan]

For one , the drone attacks are useful in getting rid of militants with low collateral damage . The armed forces of Pakistan cant engage the extremists everywhere . As for FR Bannu part , the half of problem lies in the tribal areas , right ? Since the war is being fought there and nowhere else .

Yeah , Mullah Omar is the savior , right ? Guess what , he ruined his country and lost his Govt for another terrorists who later acknowledged carrying out the bombing . I will leave the rest of ' drama ' here . You can continue making stories up just like usual . Savvy ?

yes mullah Omar seem crazy to those who support musharraf on selling Muslims to master USA including sister afia and low collatrol damage what a joke drones have killed more than 2600 you should not cry when they hit back

 

[RescueRanger]

SNAFU, that's what i would choose to describe this.

 

[Amaa'n]

@Zarvan @Pak-one both of you are putting up good arguments, since i never lived in tribal area so I cannot comment on ground realities, my arguments will be based on what i have heard from people in armed forces, media and some fellow members like you. Since last night there seems to be a confusion between people of FATA / Tribals and the TTP. you are advocating for the people of tribes who have joined the force with TTP, you are portraying as if TTP is a result of aftermath of PA operation in FATA, same as Afghan Taliban emerged as a force to fight atrocities committed by local war lords in the 80s.
however this is not the case with TTP, because they are a mesh work of many other local militant groups. If you are advocating that why FATA was invaded by PA than my response is that for very same reason Afghanistan was invaded by US / NATO. Taliban were asked by the Authorities to give up the Guests they had, but they refused hence an operation was necessary to launch.

 

[Amaa'n]

that made me laugh hard ...btw its nice to see you after a long time....still in Islamabad?

SNAFU, that's what i would choose to describe this.

 

[haviZsultan]

There is a lot of sympathy for the Afghan Taliban in Pakistan. In my eyes it is a big mistake, this sympathy for the Afghan Taliban and painting them uselessly as heroes. Afghan Taliban are as brutal or perhaps even worse than their Pakistani Taliban brethren. The only difference is they target Afghans and not Pakistanis.

The question we Pakistanis should ask is how can we want something bad for another country when we criticize the same thing happening in ours. For example we readily condemn blasts in Pakistan but often we ignore the blasts in Afghanistan, How can we want for our neighbor something we don't want for ourselves. This attitude of ours is part of the problem which is not letting Afghan and Pakistani ties to improve.