Pakistan Prime Minister warns repeat of Myanmar in India

[Bengal71]

Indian democracy and secularism all are hogwash. Hindutva scum taken full opportunity of it to rise to power and spread their politics of hatred. If India was really committed to democracy and secularism, how come a religio-fascist party like BJP is the main force there and doing politics of hate and exclusion in a broad day light?

And sanghi scum do not care whether friendly relation with Bangladesh continue or not. They already consider Bangladesh to be the 2nd Pakistan. Have you not seen they always bracket Bangladesh with Pakistan? It is actually Bangladesh govt. which is taking extra pain repeatedly reminding them to not to bracket with Pakistan. So no matter, how much Awami League govt. try to appease them. They will never consider Bangladesh to be a friendly country. There is only one way, those hindutva scum will consider Bangladesh friendly, if it's Muslim population does a ghar wapsi and after that Awami govt. propose a merger with Indian union!

Indian democracy is not a hogwash. The BJP are in power because of the majority hindu population. And there are a lot of truly secular Indians albeit they are in smaller number. Sweeping generalization will lead to wrong conclusions.

I know the BJP considers BD an enemy and gives outwardly nice attitude because of convenience. But hating us and considering us as enemies and trying a genocide are two different matters.

In any case what you are suggesting (i.e. genocide) may actually happen. The whole world's climate is anti-Muslim and Muslims are powerless now. But all poeple, all civilization has it's time, in the past it was the Muslims, in the present it's the non-Muslim world led by the Christian civilizations. But they too will have their time and Muslims will be back to the world stage as a leading protagonist. Time changes everything.

 

[Homo Sapiens]

Indian democracy is not a hogwash. The BJP are in power because of the majority hindu population. And there are a lot of truly secular Indians albeit they are in smaller number. Sweeping generalization will lead to wrong conclusions.

What India has done to promote it's secularism and democracy? Have you ever seen any BJP leader ever sued or arrested for hate speech? Can you imagine any Bangladeshi politician talking badly about Hindu minority of Bangladesh? Forget about Bangladesh. Pakistan is not a secular country, still they fired a minister few days ago for uttering anti-Hindu remark. On the other hand, this so called democratic secular India is awash with hate speech, communal riots, discriminatory laws, marginalization of minorities. Look at some credentials of secular, democratic India-

1983-Nellie massacre-5000 Bengali Muslims were killed in a broad daylight in Assam
1984-Anti-Sikh pogrom-3000 Sikh were butchered in capital Delhi by Hindu mob.
1992-Babri mosque demolition-At least 2000 Muslims were murdered.
2002-Gujarat massacre-2000 Muslims were burned, hacked to death.
2008-Kandhamal massacre-100 Christians were killed, 300 Church demolished, 6000 homes were destroyed by hindutva scum in Kandhamal, Orissa.

Small scale riot, persecution are numerous. Since 2014, hundreds of Muslims , Dalits were murdered, injured by the hindutva cow protection brigades. Now, every one among the 200 million Muslims are in panic of becoming stateless.

Do bharat need to be a hindu rashtra to become a living hell for minorities?

 

[Bengal71]

What India has done to promote it's secularism and democracy? Have you ever seen any BJP leader ever sued to arrested for hate speech? Can you imagine any Bangladeshi politician talking badly about Hindu minority of Bangladesh? Forget about Bangladesh. Pakistan is not a secular country, still they fired a minister few days ago for uttering anti-Hindu remark. On the other hand, this so called democratic secular India is awash with hate speech, communal riots, discriminatory laws, marginalization of minorities. Look at some credentials of secular, democratic India-

1983-Nellie massacre-5000 Bengali Muslims were killed in a broad daylight in Assam
1984-Anti-Sikh pogrom-3000 Sikh were butchered in capital Delhi by Hindu mob.
1992-Babri mosque demolition-At least 2000 Muslims were murdered.
2002-Gujarat massacre-2000 Muslims were burned, hacked to death.
2008-Kandhamal massacre-100 Christians were killed, 300 Church demolished, 6000 homes were destroyed by hindutva scum in Kandhamal, Orissa.

Small scale riot, persecution are numerous. Since 2014, hundreds of Muslims , Dalits were murdered, injured by the hindutva cow protection brigades. Now, every one among the 200 million Muslims are in panic of becoming stateless.

Do bharat need to be a hindu rashtra to become a living hell for minorities?

These things you are pointing out are flaws of democratic practice in a third world country. Nobody denied these, yet India is the single most democratic country in the subcontinent. BJP goon behavior is the result of nazi style propaganda, masses take on these nazi ideologies. Even a highly civilized nation like the Germans fell for it.

 

[VikingRaider]

Indian democracy is not a hogwash. The BJP are in power because of the majority hindu population

Democracy is just now tyranny of majority. In India this type of tyranny is predominant now!

 

[That Guy]

1. Don't present your opinions as facts. Twice you tried to instigate Kashmiris zero reaction and only betrayal.

That is not an opinion, it is a fact. If kashmiris thought of India as their home, they wouldn't be in a lock down right now.

4. India is not, there is a small slump in growth, we are far from being called an economic rut. India is picking up a fight with Pakistan to keep it spending more on the military and stop you from being an economic threat as for CAA protest, nobody is beating CAA protestors when they are doing sit in protest. Govt just left them alone.

Mostly wrong, or a lie.

India is falling into a middle income trap, where the economy has become stagnant, and unemployment has remained high.

The CAA protesters are routinely beaten, or arrested and jailed. Look what happened to those kids in JNU protesting, or the the police raid on the hospital, or when a police chief threatened muslim residents to leave India.

Pakistan's economy isn't slow because of military spending, it's slow because of what's happening on its western border. Years of terrorism from Afghanistan, and the war on terror has crippled Pakistan's economy, not anything India has done.

5. There is no lockdown, only a partial communication blockade. People are traveling to and from Kashmir and we can lock down a region, we have locked down entire country before. The point being, India will do anything in its power to stay united. To the extent that we have forgiven many terrorists in North Eastern regions just for peace. For any reference please watch this. Link

You "forgave them", because they surrendered, that's how peace deals work.

There IS a lockdown, no matter how much you deny it, the world has witnessed it. I do not see why you feel the need to continue covering up this fact. No one was allowed to enter or leave for the longest time, and its only recently that restrictions have been slightly loosened.

The fact that you have to lock down entire regions is a problem in and of itself. You cannot call yourself a democracy, when you stifle free speech, and peaceful protests.

 

[Chhatrapati]

That is not an opinion, it is a fact. If kashmiris thought of India as their home, they wouldn't be in a lock down right now.

A fact without any basis other than a few protests you see now and then.

Mostly wrong, or a lie.

India is falling into a middle income trap, where the economy has become stagnant, and unemployment has remained high.

The CAA protesters are routinely beaten, or arrested and jailed. Look what happened to those kids in JNU protesting, or the the police raid on the hospital, or when a police chief threatened muslim residents to leave India.

Pakistan's economy isn't slow because of military spending, it's slow because of what's happening on its western border. Years of terrorism from Afghanistan, and the war on terror has crippled Pakistan's economy, not anything India has done.

India hasn't reached median middle income to reach the middle-income trap. It would take at least 20 years to see if India fell into the middle-income trap. When our growth slows after reaching GDP of $10 trillion.

That's an exaggeration, even you know it. CAA protestors are not beaten, they are doing a sit in protest in Shahin Bag mostly. And losing to protest fatigue as the government simply let them be. If anything protestors want is now attention and beating them would grant them that, which government is simply not interested in.

Please don't disown the Afghans after you used them to fight Indians in Kashmir. Like TTP which again was your mess you created to clear NWFP, Pakistan used Afg militants to infiltrate the Kashmir movement to reak havoc in the valley. Whatever mess you are in is your own creation, including your isolation in the region.

You "forgave them", because they surrendered, that's how peace deals work.

There IS a lockdown, no matter how much you deny it, the world has witnessed it. I do not see why you feel the need to continue covering up this fact. No one was allowed to enter or leave for the longest time, and its only recently that restrictions have been slightly loosened.

The fact that you have to lock down entire regions is a problem in and of itself. You cannot call yourself a democracy, when you stifle free speech, and peaceful protests.

They surrendered because they had no other options. India had ended long-standing internal conflicts by simply waiting it out. We didn't just "forgave them", we even put the surrendered militants in positions of power. It won't be long before you see former Bodo militants as Army men serving in Indo Pak border. (Nagas already have a regiment).

Of course, there is a lockdown. But not on the scale you imagine. I remember buying Kashmiri apple in November while in Mumbai. Also, militants attacked and killed a truck driver from Punjab while he was in Kashmir. I can post videos of trucks coming in and going out of the valley before winter.

The restrictions were eased long before December, the main issue was internet lockdown which caused a lot of furor. Which is still restricted to some extent I believe. Other than that it's pretty normal in the region, except the heavy snow.

Speaking of democracy, democracy doesn't grant the right to secession. There needs to be a unified state to be called a democracy. If you want democracy you need to accept the law of land, or law takes its own ways to suppress any such secessionist movements.

 

[Bengal71]

Democracy is just now tyranny of majority. In India this type of tyranny is predominant now!

I know but that's because people of the subcontinent are not enlightened as yet. It took Europeans many years, so will it take many years in the subcontinent.

 

[That Guy]

A fact without any basis other than a few protests you see now and then.

If it was a few, then you wouldn't have had to lock down the entire region, and split it up.

So much for kashmiris being "your people".

India hasn't reached median middle income to reach the middle-income trap. It would take at least 20 years to see if India fell into the middle-income trap. When our growth slows after reaching GDP of $10 trillion.

That's a weird answer, considering that there is no way of knowing if India will recover any time soon. And in fact, things seem to be getting worse, not better for India under Modi.

That's an exaggeration, even you know it. CAA protestors are not beaten, they are doing a sit in protest in Shahin Bag mostly. And losing to protest fatigue as the government simply let them be. If anything protestors want is now attention and beating them would grant them that, which government is simply not interested in.

Oh really?

https://globalnews.ca/news/6340170/india-protesters-beaten-citizenship-protest/

Listen, if you're gonna bs to my face, just make sure I can't literally fact check you within seconds of reading your comment.

Please don't disown the Afghans after you used them to fight Indians in Kashmir. Like TTP which again was your mess you created to clear NWFP, Pakistan used Afg militants to infiltrate the Kashmir movement to reak havoc in the valley. Whatever mess you are in is your own creation, including your isolation in the region.

Nah, the mess in Afghanistan is Afghanistan's creation, not Pakistan, or are we gonna ignore how Afghanistan never recognized Pakistan, and still does not de jure recognize Pakistan as a sovereign state. This shit goes back all the way back to when Pakistan and India gained UN membership.

Also, you may deny it, but the ttp is helped by NDS and RAW. While there is admittedly little evidence of raw's involvement (just like isi and kashmir, no evidence), we all know what's going on. As for the NDS, this was exactly the reason why the CIA no longer cooperates with the NDS, due to NDS' support for terrorism and militancy in Pakistan.

They surrendered because they had no other options. India had ended long-standing internal conflicts by simply waiting it out. We didn't just "forgave them", we even put the surrendered militants in positions of power. It won't be long before you see former Bodo militants as Army men serving in Indo Pak border. (Nagas already have a regiment).

Try reading my comment again, I never said "you just forgave them", I said it's all a part of the peace process. If no such process occurred, they would still keep fighting, no matter how long you wait them out.

Of course, there is a lockdown. But not on the scale you imagine. I remember buying Kashmiri apple in November while in Mumbai. Also, militants attacked and killed a truck driver from Punjab while he was in Kashmir. I can post videos of trucks coming in and going out of the valley before winter.

A few trucks moving in and out of Kashmir does not mean there isn't a lock down.

But here's the funny part, you just went from denying there is a lock down, to saying there IS a lockdown.

Also, I don't care about your anecdotes, or random youtube videos, which could just be nitpicked.

All that matter are facts.

The restrictions were eased long before December, the main issue was internet lockdown which caused a lot of furor. Which is still restricted to some extent I believe. Other than that it's pretty normal in the region, except the heavy snow.

They were eased on paper, and by statements from Indian officials. There is no evidence of such a thing occurring, nor should the Modi government be trusted simply on their word, as they've proven to be really liars. Remember, they also denied a lock down was in place, until evidence came out that a lockdown was actually in place.

Speaking of democracy, democracy doesn't grant the right to secession. There needs to be a unified state to be called a democracy. If you want democracy you need to accept the law of land, or law takes its own ways to suppress any such secessionist movements.

When did I say it grants the right of secession? What I said was that peaceful protests are allowed in democracies, which is a fact. Don't strawman me.

 

[Chhatrapati]

If it was a few, then you wouldn't have had to lock down the entire region, and split it up.

So much for kashmiris being "your people".

Again you are assuming. There are hundreds of reasons to lockdown. One, to break the communication between fringe Kashmiri groups and Pakistan. It worked very well, for the past few months there was no major terror attack on security forces. To control the JK police, weed out the moles, again working well. Caught a big fish a few weeks back. To round up militants, arrest them, kill them. Just recently, two Pakistanis were killed in an encounter. How many more reasons do you want?

That's a weird answer, considering that there is no way of knowing if India will recover any time soon. And in fact, things seem to be getting worse, not better for India under Modi.

It'll be quite a disappointment for you when that doesn't happen. The growth slump is temporary, manufacturing is growing at 8 years high in January. India is among the top ten investment destinations. With all the bad macro indicators last year, India received $49 billion in FDI (16% rise vis 2018). Meanwhile, entire South Asia received $60 billion others showing a negative growth rate, see who drives the investment in the region. India is slowing, not recovering, unemployment bla bla meanwhile investors say a different story.

The growth slump in India is not because of some middle-income trap, it is because of structural changes that are happening in different sectors in India. Wait for a year and you'll see what I'm talking about.

Oh really?

https://globalnews.ca/news/6340170/india-protesters-beaten-citizenship-protest/

Listen, if you're gonna bs to my face, just make sure I can't literally fact check you within seconds of reading your comment.

Yeah really, that happened to like one month back when the so-called protestors started rioting on streets. If you burn buses, you're getting whooped. Protestors also got killed. Low tolerance for unruly behaviour. Sit in protest has been going on for a month without any trouble from the cops. They have been blocking the roads for over a month now.

Try reading my comment again, I never said "you just forgave them", I said it's all a part of the peace process. If no such process occurred, they would still keep fighting, no matter how long you wait them out.

Peace process is the result of 'waiting them out'. They didn't just woke up one day and decided they want peace, they got it when they understood it is impossible to fight a full fledged state using some gun-wielding yahoos, the state has funds and can improvise and take as much as time they want because the policy of BJP and Congress doesn't change towards terrorists. This will be no different for Kashmiri militants.

A few trucks moving in and out of Kashmir does not mean there isn't a lock down.

But here's the funny part, you just went from denying there is a lock down, to saying there IS a lockdown.

Also, I don't care about your anecdotes, or random youtube videos, which could just be nitpicked.

All that matter are facts.

Facts which you keep saying while having none to substantiate.

Now don't hang on to semantics, there is only a communication lockdown, which I never denied. I keep saying there is one. Where have I said there is a complete shutdown?

Do vehicular traffic count in your dictionary of 'facts'? Independent sources. This is from September.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1176051581399134208

They were eased on paper, and by statements from Indian officials. There is no evidence of such a thing occurring, nor should the Modi government be trusted simply on their word, as they've proven to be really liars. Remember, they also denied a lock down was in place, until evidence came out that a lockdown was actually in place.

Unless you were living under a rock, Kashmiri sources don't back your claims. Even newspapers are reporting the encounter that killed two Pakistanis while they were being smuggled by a truck driver.

When did I say it grants the right of secession? What I said was that peaceful protests are allowed in democracies, which is a fact. Don't strawman me.

Ha, then that solves the issue. They have the right to protest any decision, in an ideal world, they won't pelt stones, or attack riot control police.

 

[That Guy]

This entire comment of yours is you either using faulty logic, strawmaning me, doing u-turns, or you just changing the narrative.

Using a random tweet, from some bumbum nobody, really? That's your standard of evidence?

Again you are assuming. There are hundreds of reasons to lockdown. One, to break the communication between fringe Kashmiri groups and Pakistan. It worked very well, for the past few months there was no major terror attack on security forces. To control the JK police, weed out the moles, again working well. Caught a big fish a few weeks back. To round up militants, arrest them, kill them. Just recently, two Pakistanis were killed in an encounter. How many more reasons do you want?

Assumptions, eh? Pot calling the kettle black.

Are we just gonna pretend that the lockdown didn't happen right before Modi revoked Kashmir's status, split up the region, and turned it into a union territory? Because that's literally what you seem to be doing, pretending otherwise.

Your argument only works, if we didn't actually have a given reason for the lock down.

It'll be quite a disappointment for you when that doesn't happen. The growth slump is temporary, manufacturing is growing at 8 years high in January. India is among the top ten investment destinations. With all the bad macro indicators last year, India received $49 billion in FDI (16% rise vis 2018). Meanwhile, entire South Asia received $60 billion others showing a negative growth rate, see who drives the investment in the region. India is slowing, not recovering, unemployment bla bla meanwhile investors say a different story.

Why would it be disappointing for me? If anything, I say good luck. A rich india actually is good for a multipolar world, and it's also good for south asia, including Pakistan. It may be weird to say, but if you understand geopolitics, and what is happening in south asia as a whole, then you'll understand why I say this.

See your problem is that you don't seem to know what investors and economists are actually saying, or what they're interested in. Investors don't give a damn about unemployment, which is actually extremely high, and has not seen a proper decrease for a decade now, investors only care about their returns. Economists are saying, despite high growth, new jobs aren't being created fast enough to decrease India's unemployment, which is and will continue to have a serious effect on India.

Also, the disaster that was the demonetization. Even I was fooled into believing that it would have long term benefits for india, but it's clear now that the entire fiasco is actually gonna have an extremely high detrimental effect on India's growth, and hurt the poorest of Indians.

The growth slump in India is not because of some middle-income trap, it is because of structural changes that are happening in different sectors in India. Wait for a year and you'll see what I'm talking about.

When did I say it was due to a middle income trap? I said India may be heading towards one, I'd it's current trajectory keeps on going the way it is.

So far, I've seen zero indication that any changes being made will have the kind of effects that you seem to be claiming. Even the much touted GSP reforms have ended up having an opposite effect.

Yeah really, that happened to like one month back when the so-called protestors started rioting on streets. If you burn buses, you're getting whooped. Protestors also got killed. Low tolerance for unruly behaviour. Sit in protest has been going on for a month without any trouble from the cops. They have been blocking the roads for over a month now.

Once again, you're doing a u-turn. You went from no beatings, to they happened a long time ago

Stop making excuses, you know you're wrong on this one.

Peace process is the result of 'waiting them out'. They didn't just woke up one day and decided they want peace, they got it when they understood it is impossible to fight a full fledged state using some gun-wielding yahoos, the state has funds and can improvise and take as much as time they want because the policy of BJP and Congress doesn't change towards terrorists. This will be no different for Kashmiri militants.

You have zero idea how insurgencies work, and this comment proves it.

Facts which you keep saying while having none to substantiate.

What a cringy comment. It would be less cringe, if you actually had a point here.

Not only did I get you to admit and do a few u-turns, but you've had to constantly change your narrative to try and make your argument.

Now don't hang on to semantics, there is only a communication lockdown, which I never denied. I keep saying there is one. Where have I said there is a complete shutdown?

You said there was no lock down originally, and then you said there was one. The only part you were consistent here with was your comment about the communication lockdown.

Do vehicular traffic count in your dictionary of 'facts'? Independent sources. This is from September.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1176051581399134208

A twitter comment is even worse than a youtube video, so no, I don't care about it, because its unverifiable.

If you believe everything you see on twitter, then I have snake oil that I'd like to sell you.

Unless you were living under a rock, Kashmiri sources don't back your claims. Even newspapers are reporting the encounter that killed two Pakistanis while they were being smuggled by a truck driver.

Indian newspapers claim this, but even if we were to say it's true, that literally has nothing to do with the part of my comment you're replying to.

Once again, you're changing your narrative.

Ha, then that solves the issue. They have the right to protest any decision, in an ideal world, they won't pelt stones, or attack riot control police.

If the police don't have the tendency of chaining people to their cars as human shields, and then get awarded with medals, maybe people would be less angry.

Maybe if Kashmir wasn't treated with contempt by India, and kashmiris were actually treated as your own people, they wouldn't want to actually separate from your country.

 

[Chhatrapati]

Using a random tweet, from some bumbum nobody, really? That's your standard of evidence?

If you don't believe in anything, that's the best I could come up with. Take it or leave it, they are experts in their respective fields. Unless you know something more that stands to object their finding, then you can. Else no point in attacking the source. This is not a trial court, there is no judge or jury.

Assumptions, eh? Pot calling the kettle black.

Are we just gonna pretend that the lockdown didn't happen right before Modi revoked Kashmir's status, split up the region, and turned it into a union territory? Because that's literally what you seem to be doing, pretending otherwise.

Your argument only works, if we didn't actually have a given reason for the lock down.

And what is wrong with that? The burden of evidence is on you to prove the Kashmir is still under lockdown. I have given enough evidence to prove it is not some prison. You don't believe random video, how about with the day's newspaper? These are like 5 months old.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1189806363641204736

https://twitter.com/x/status/1174670765666365440

Why would it be disappointing for me? If anything, I say good luck. A rich india actually is good for a multipolar world, and it's also good for south asia, including Pakistan. It may be weird to say, but if you understand geopolitics, and what is happening in south asia as a whole, then you'll understand why I say this.

See your problem is that you don't seem to know what investors and economists are actually saying, or what they're interested in. Investors don't give a damn about unemployment, which is actually extremely high, and has not seen a proper decrease for a decade now, investors only care about their returns. Economists are saying, despite high growth, new jobs aren't being created fast enough to decrease India's unemployment, which is and will continue to have a serious effect on India.

Also, the disaster that was the demonetization. Even I was fooled into believing that it would have long term benefits for india, but it's clear now that the entire fiasco is actually gonna have an extremely high detrimental effect on India's growth, and hurt the poorest of Indians.

Disappointing for you because you're the one who theorized the middle-income trap and holding on to it. Of all the theories one can come up with, you found a middle-income trap, which is stupid. We are just low middle income nation, there is no way to go other than up until we reach the median or upper middle income then if we are stuck like say China, Argentina, Brazil etc... either because of the population which is in case of China or because of stagflation like in the case of Argentina your point will be true. That's why I said, it'll take 10-20 years for us to reach middle income trap.

Again, the employment rate is not the sole indicator of the economy. Those are coarse statistics whose methodology needs to be updated. Nobody cared about the unemployment rate when India was growing past 8% pa, there wasn't a massive slump in unemployment rate either.

I disagree with that in part, demonetization has effectively brought a lot of informal economy into a formal one with each year showing double-digit growth in the number of taxpayers. Add to that, the digital economy that's now worth over $200 billion or 8% of GDP. Popping the real estate bubble (which in fact affected our GDP growth rate).
Partial disagreement because, all these could've been done without demonetization, but it will be at a much much slower rate. Demonetization was a shot in the arm for those sectors.

Lastly, why do you think Modi returned with more majority? Before you think Hindutva or Pakistan, it's because the poor or rural India voted en masse to BJP. They don't care about Hinduism or Pakistan, all they care about is what they get, like sanitation, electricity, a concrete house, gas connection, farm subsidies, pension benefits and so on. Which he delivered. Next is clean drinking water connection, I'm sure he will do that too.

What a cringy comment. It would be less cringe, if you actually had a point here.

Not only did I get you to admit and do a few u-turns, but you've had to constantly change your narrative to try and make your argument.

Again claiming superficial victories. You failed to substantiate any of your points.

You said there was no lock down

And I proved it. Can you prove me otherwise? Apart from your argument that I took a U-turn. Which I did only because I haven't taken into account communication blackout because it's partially restored since months.

Even now the communication lockdown is for 3G and 4G services. 2G services are up.

A twitter comment is even worse than a youtube video, so no, I don't care about it, because its unverifiable.

If you believe everything you see on twitter, then I have snake oil that I'd like to sell you.

That specific tweet was from the time when there was comm lockdown. He has better credibility than your entire argument. Closing your eyes doesn't make the whole world dark. There are countless other videos, I can flood this feed with videos from Sept - Dec.

If the police don't have the tendency of chaining people to their cars as human shields, and then get awarded with medals, maybe people would be less angry.

Maybe if Kashmir wasn't treated with contempt by India, and kashmiris were actually treated as your own people, they wouldn't want to actually separate from your country.

Ironically you're changing the narrative. How about another, if Kashmiris haven't ethnically cleansed it's Hindu population there wouldn't be a reason for police strong-arming. Let's not play the blame game, it is what it is for countless reasons.

Kashmir will be normal when Pakistan stops sending cartoons to "help" Kashmiris.

 

[That Guy]

If you don't believe in anything, that's the best I could come up with. Take it or leave it, they are experts in their respective fields. Unless you know something more that stands to object their finding, then you can. Else no point in attacking the source. This is not a trial court, there is no judge or jury.

The source is sometimes equally as important as the evidence presented. If some mentally deranged person said he saw a unicorn, you wouldn't believe him, would you?

Random tweets from anonymous nobodies is not proper evidence, and if that's the standard of evidence you can come up with, then you need to up your standard.

And what is wrong with that? The burden of evidence is on you to prove the Kashmir is still under lockdown. I have given enough evidence to prove it is not some prison. You don't believe random video, how about with the day's newspaper? These are like 5 months old.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1189806363641204736

https://twitter.com/x/status/1174670765666365440

Once again, anectodal evidence is not worth considering.

But you are right when you say that the one who makes the claim must carry the burden to show evidence.

So here's evidence, literally from 2 weeks ago.

https://www.indiatoday.in/india/sto...ovt-naqvi-kashmir-outreach-1639068-2020-01-22

Heavy troop presence, political leaders still under detention, and mass surveillance still continuing to be implemented.

Oh, and I gave you an Indian source, so you can't claim bias.

Disappointing for you because you're the one who theorized the middle-income trap and holding on to it. Of all the theories one can come up with, you found a middle-income trap, which is stupid. We are just low middle income nation, there is no way to go other than up until we reach the median or upper middle income then if we are stuck like say China, Argentina, Brazil etc... either because of the population which is in case of China or because of stagflation like in the case of Argentina your point will be true. That's why I said, it'll take 10-20 years for us to reach middle income trap.

You are literally ignoring what I said.

Once again, I'll rephrase. India may take 10-20 years to become a proper middle income economy, but today's policies will dictate if India will become stuck in the middle income, or push past it.

You don't seem to realize that economic policies of today can have great influence on a nation's economy in the future. My point is that India's current situation will cause India to not go past the middle income, whenever that occurs.

Again, the employment rate is not the sole indicator of the economy. Those are coarse statistics whose methodology needs to be updated. Nobody cared about the unemployment rate when India was growing past 8% pa, there wasn't a massive slump in unemployment rate either.

Unemployment rate is actually very important, but you are correct that there are other indications that are also important.

The problem with India's GDP growth is that it is not leading to new job growth, and is actually leading to increasing income inequality. This means that despite India having high GDP, the poor are not benefitting at the level they should be, only the rich are.

I disagree with that in part, demonetization has effectively brought a lot of informal economy into a formal one with each year showing double-digit growth in the number of taxpayers. Add to that, the digital economy that's now worth over $200 billion or 8% of GDP. Popping the real estate bubble (which in fact affected our GDP growth rate).

I'd like a source on this claim. I've seen little evidence of demonetization actually bringing the informal economy to the formal, nor have I seen evidence that it has increased tax revenue, and decreased corruption.

Partial disagreement because, all these could've been done without demonetization, but it will be at a much much slower rate. Demonetization was a shot in the arm for those sectors.

It was a shot alright, but it may have been a bullet, instead of adrenalin.

Lastly, why do you think Modi returned with more majority? Before you think Hindutva or Pakistan, it's because the poor or rural India voted en masse to BJP. They don't care about Hinduism or Pakistan, all they care about is what they get, like sanitation, electricity, a concrete house, gas connection, farm subsidies, pension benefits and so on. Which he delivered. Next is clean drinking water connection, I'm sure he will do that too.

"Teaching Pakistan a lesson" was central to his election campaigns, if you think people didn't vote for him because of this, I don't know what to tell you. The fact he made it central to his pitch to voters should be evidence in itself that his voters care more about that than anything else.

Again claiming superficial victories. You failed to substantiate any of your points.

The fact that you've gone back and forth on your own main points shows just how superficial your own arguments are, not mine.

And I proved it. Can you prove me otherwise? Apart from your argument that I took a U-turn. Which I did only because I haven't taken into account communication blackout because it's partially restored since months.

Once again, random tweets are not evidence. And look above at the link I gave.

Even now the communication lockdown is for 3G and 4G services. 2G services are up.

Your point is worthless, as there is still (to your own admission) a communication blockade.

That specific tweet was from the time when there was comm lockdown. He has better credibility than your entire argument. Closing your eyes doesn't make the whole world dark. There are countless other videos, I can flood this feed with videos from Sept - Dec.

We're not talking about me, so your attempt to try and discredit me is dumb.

Once again, random tweets from nobodies is not evidence.

Ironically you're changing the narrative. How about another, if Kashmiris haven't ethnically cleansed it's Hindu population there wouldn't be a reason for police strong-arming. Let's not play the blame game, it is what it is for countless reasons.

Not even close. I'm sticking to my points, so don't even think about play this game with me.

You have no idea what an ethnic cleansing is, so your claims of one are ridiculous.

The fact you're trying to justify clearly immoral acts should tell you if you're in the wrong or not.

Kashmir will be normal when Pakistan stops sending cartoons to "help" Kashmiris.

If Pakistan didn't exist, Kashmir would still be the same, you know it, and I know it. Pakistan is nothing more than a convenient scapegoat.

 

[Chhatrapati]

The source is sometimes equally as important as the evidence presented. If some mentally deranged person said he saw a unicorn, you wouldn't believe him, would you?

Random tweets from anonymous nobodies is not proper evidence, and if that's the standard of evidence you can come up with, then you need to up your standard.

A politician who speaks against the government, I mean you got to be kidding. Evidence is not political statements. The worst part is, she is not operating the account, her daughter who lives in Chennai is. Are you being serious, is this the big evidence?

Once again, anectodal evidence is not worth considering.

They are not anecdotal, clearly shows Kashmiri newspaper, with date, and matches the date of the video posted on twitter. Including lal chowk if you still have doubts, you can look at the number plates of those vehicles passing by, they have JK - meaning Jammu and Kashmir plates.
Then again, for people who are adamant about not believing anything apart from their "Kashmir under lockdown" narrative, nothing will be enough.

You can search on BBC even though they are consistently hostile to India, they still talk about comm lockdown, not banning of free movement.

Heavy troop presence, political leaders still under detention, and mass surveillance still continuing to be implemented.

That's not lockdown dear. I hope you read before posting this big evidence, that's Mufti's daughter pissed off about an outreach program, Kashmiri political families like Muftis will be unhappy because they lost their political hold and are being replaced by Central Government. Who wouldn't be unhappy when you are evicted from Govt bungalow which was gifted to you.

All issues are with communication lockdown. Not lockdown of free movement. If the free movement was barred then everybody will pounce at the opportunity.

You are literally ignoring what I said.

Once again, I'll rephrase. India may take 10-20 years to become a proper middle income economy, but today's policies will dictate if India will become stuck in the middle income, or push past it.

You don't seem to realize that economic policies of today can have great influence on a nation's economy in the future. My point is that India's current situation will cause India to not go past the middle income, whenever that occurs.

No need, you said India is falling into a middle-income trap (Not yet), the economy is stagnant (not, still clocking 5% growth). By going through today's "Policy" there is no way India will be stuck, India is slowly moving away from Nehruvian socialism to Capitalism. There is absolutely zero indication of India getting stuck.

Credible agencies like the IMF believes the growth slump is temporary.

I'd like a source on this claim. I've seen little evidence of demonetization actually bringing the informal economy to the formal, nor have I seen evidence that it has increased tax revenue, and decreased corruption.

Yeah sure. Link and Tax payers 14% growth in 2018.
Digital transaction growth, the contribution to GDP.
The real estate sector post one year and in2018 only shows marginal price hikes.
80% of adults in India have a bank account.
And again I agree demonetization was unnecessary per se, there could've been other regulatory ways to achieve this.

"Teaching Pakistan a lesson" was central to his election campaigns, if you think people didn't vote for him because of this, I don't know what to tell you. The fact he made it central to his pitch to voters should be evidence in itself that his voters care more about that than anything else.

Of course, the Urban voters are greatly influenced by issues relating to Pakistan. But urban voters are not nearly enough to win an election, like in 2009 (After Mumbai terror attack) otoh Urban voters voted for BJP, they didn't get the rural votes. But this time if you're interested in reading.
1. Rural sanitation a jump from 39% to 92%.
2. Rural Electrification
3. Housing scheme
4. Direct Benefit Transfer to bank account without the middleman or babus.
5. 90% Indians now have LPG, a jump from 52% in 2015.

All these are not without any issues, there is a lot I mean a 'lot' of room for improvement but you got to understand these people were living without proper sanitation, burning woods for cooking, oil lamps for light, bribing babus for any government benefits getting all these things like Housing, electricity, toilet for the first time that too in a short time span. It's natural they'll vote for Modi.

Your point is worthless, as there is still (to your own admission) a communication blockade.

Once again, in denial.

Once again, random tweets from nobodies is not evidence.

What accounts to evidence for you? This is getting comical.

You have no idea what an ethnic cleansing is, so your claims of one are ridiculous.

Cleansing a minority like Kashmiri Hindus, from the valley is very much ethnic cleansing. Want proof? There is countless, but if you're in Denial, I'm not interested in wasting my time. Even foreign medias reported on it.

If Pakistan didn't exist, Kashmir would still be the same, you know it, and I know it. Pakistan is nothing more than a convenient scapegoat.

No. If Pakistan didn't exist, it'll be like Hyderabad or Junagad, worst case it'll be a Nagaland.

Pakistan has been caught actively sponsoring militants. You have global terrorist still in prison, you actively supported militancy in Kashmir, used foreign fighters, used military twice to take control of Kashmir with force, despite getting zero support from locals in the valley. Do you call this scapegoat?

 

[That Guy]

A politician who speaks against the government, I mean you got to be kidding. Evidence is not political statements. The worst part is, she is not operating the account, her daughter who lives in Chennai is. Are you being serious, is this the big evidence?

She's a political prisoner, you moron. If there was no lock down, there would be no need to keep her under lock and key.

This is such extreme mental gymnastics, it's amazing you haven't popped a blood vessel yet.

Read the entire article, instead of cherry picking.

They are not anecdotal, clearly shows Kashmiri newspaper, with date, and matches the date of the video posted on twitter. Including lal chowk if you still have doubts, you can look at the number plates of those vehicles passing by, they have JK - meaning Jammu and Kashmir plates.
Then again, for people who are adamant about not believing anything apart from their "Kashmir under lockdown" narrative, nothing will be enough.

How many times do I have to say this, random unverifiable tweets are not evidence. It's like I'm talking to a 12 year old, who keeps repeating himself.

Stop it.

You can search on BBC even though they are consistently hostile to India, they still talk about comm lockdown, not banning of free movement.

BBC reports literally had to sneak into the region, what are you talking about? You are literally cherry picking here.

They are not being hostile, they're reporting the news.

Not only that, you're now putting random fucking tweets as being more authoritative than a internationally respected journalistic media outlet.

That's not lockdown dear. I hope you read before posting this big evidence, that's Mufti's daughter pissed off about an outreach program, Kashmiri political families like Muftis will be unhappy because they lost their political hold and are being replaced by Central Government. Who wouldn't be unhappy when you are evicted from Govt bungalow which was gifted to you.

Local politicians, and religious leaders are under house arrest, or in jail. You don't allow the only muslim majority region to retain its identity, and you have the balls to talk about ethnic cleansing.

The so called out reach program is nothing more than a photo op, and you know it. Its propaganda.

Mufti's daughter is pissed off, because her mom is under house arrest for no good reason.

All issues are with communication lockdown. Not lockdown of free movement. If the free movement was barred then everybody will pounce at the opportunity.

What does this even mean? There are military personnel everywhere. No one is able to protest, due to fears of arrest, or outright getting shot and killed.

No need, you said India is falling into a middle-income trap (Not yet), the economy is stagnant (not, still clocking 5% growth). By going through today's "Policy" there is no way India will be stuck, India is slowly moving away from Nehruvian socialism to Capitalism. There is absolutely zero indication of India getting stuck.

First of all, 5% growth is absolutely nothing, considering the size of India.

Modi is loosening labor laws, he's making it easier to screw poor employees, and you're celebrating this?

The income gap is widening, not shrinking, and unemployment is set to get worse, as time goes on and automation keeps growing in India.

Credible agencies like the IMF believes the growth slump is temporary.

Temporary, yes. The problem isn't the growth itself, the problem is everything else related to the growth.

Yeah sure. Link and Tax payers 14% growth in 2018.
Digital transaction growth, the contribution to GDP.
The real estate sector post one year and in2018 only shows marginal price hikes.
80% of adults in India have a bank account.
And again I agree demonetization was unnecessary per se, there could've been other regulatory ways to achieve this.

I'm not seeing a link between the two. Having a bank account doesn't necessarily mean higher tax collection, or whitening black money.

This is a stretch.

Of course, the Urban voters are greatly influenced by issues relating to Pakistan. But urban voters are not nearly enough to win an election, like in 2009 (After Mumbai terror attack) otoh Urban voters voted for BJP, they didn't get the rural votes. But this time if you're interested in reading.
1. Rural sanitation a jump from 39% to 92%.
2. Rural Electrification
3. Housing scheme
4. Direct Benefit Transfer to bank account without the middleman or babus.
5. 90% Indians now have LPG, a jump from 52% in 2015.

Then tell that to Modi, because he and the bjp keeps mention Pakistan to try and gain votes.

All these are not without any issues, there is a lot I mean a 'lot' of room for improvement but you got to understand these people were living without proper sanitation, burning woods for cooking, oil lamps for light, bribing babus for any government benefits getting all these things like Housing, electricity, toilet for the first time that too in a short time span. It's natural they'll vote for Modi.

The poor are easy to manipulate. Blaming everything on Pakistan helps divert attention, and gives the poor a scape goat.

Once again, in denial.

No, I'm just not gullible like you. I don't believe random tweets, and propaganda, simply because it confirms by biases.

It's called critical thinking, look it up.

What accounts to evidence for you? This is getting comical.

Legitimate, highly respected outlets, or independent organizations. Scientific studies, scholarly research...etc. not a random fucking tweet from twitter, by some but who's name we don't even know.

Cleansing a minority like Kashmiri Hindus, from the valley is very much ethnic cleansing. Want proof? There is countless, but if you're in Denial, I'm not interested in wasting my time. Even foreign medias reported on it.

There are a lot more muslim kashmiri refugees in India than there are hindu. Your argument is flawed.

If you also haven't noticed, Modi split the region into three parts, one of them being hindu majority. Once again, your argument is dumb.

No. If Pakistan didn't exist, it'll be like Hyderabad or Junagad, worst case it'll be a Nagaland.

Don't be dumb. You know nothing would change. From the beginning, Nehru himself was against the very notion of having a muslim majority region, which was one of the reasons why pakistan split in the first place.

Pakistan has been caught actively sponsoring militants.

It really hasn't, but it probably does sponsor militants in Kashmir.

You have global terrorist still in prison, you actively supported militancy in Kashmir, used foreign fighters, used military twice to take control of Kashmir with force, despite getting zero support from locals in the valley. Do you call this scapegoat?

Isn't there new evidence that shows afzal guru may have been framed?

Also, considering that locals are constantly shouting pro-Pakistan slogans, and hold Pakistani flags at protests, you have to be blind to take your comment seriously.

If this was 10 years ago, hell, even 5 years ago, I would have probably said that Kashmiris don't support pakistan. Modi's actions have changed everything.

 

[Chhatrapati]

She's a political prisoner, you moron. If there was no lock down, there would be no need to keep her under lock and key.

This is such extreme mental gymnastics, it's amazing you haven't popped a blood vessel yet.

Read the entire article, instead of cherry picking.

You need to stop acting like a moron before calling others Moron. Putting politicians in detention doesn't mean the entire state is in lockdown. How did you come to this conclusion?

Popping a blood vessel? I'm calmer than usual, unlike you I don't need to start calling names.

And, bring unequivocal proofs. Not the daughter of a politician pretending to be her mother living thousands of Km away. Some shady shit is your source and everyone is supposed to swallow it.

How many times do I have to say this, random unverifiable tweets are not evidence. It's like I'm talking to a 12 year old, who keeps repeating himself.

Stop it.

Those weren't random unverifiable tweets, those are from a police officer posted in Kashmir, who recorded day to day activities. You simply cannot watch these and verify it because again, denial....
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-51117025 anything about lockdown of movement there?

BBC reports literally had to sneak into the region, what are you talking about? You are literally cherry picking here.

They are not being hostile, they're reporting the news.

Not only that, you're now putting random fucking tweets as being more authoritative than a internationally respected journalistic media outlet.

BBC reporter sneaked in when? Do you even read anything at all? The journalist who illegally snuck in was American from The New Yorker, along with an Indian reporter, even the report says they landed in Jammu and took a cab to travel around and that was right after art 370 was removed. 5 months passed since then, and you haven't provided anything other than an article from a politician's daughter.

First of all, 5% growth is absolutely nothing, considering the size of India.

Modi is loosening labor laws, he's making it easier to screw poor employees, and you're celebrating this?

The income gap is widening, not shrinking, and unemployment is set to get worse, as time goes on and automation keeps growing in India.

5% is modest for a $3 trillion economy. Growth slump for a year or two means nothing, these are expected as there is a lot of structural changes happening. Again, you're hoping and predicting with unemployment data. Might as well as bring up the "happiness index".

I'm not seeing a link between the two. Having a bank account doesn't necessarily mean higher tax collection, or whitening black money.

This is a stretch.

*face palm* You're not seeing because you didn't read what I said and missed a link or two.

Then tell that to Modi, because he and the bjp keeps mention Pakistan to try and gain votes.

Repeating the same BS twice doesn't make it true. If Pakistan does not want to be mentioned then you should stop meddling in India politics. More so, it'll be good if you stop pushing gun wielding yahoos to attack India.

The poor are easy to manipulate. Blaming everything on Pakistan helps divert attention, and gives the poor a scape goat.

They probably couldn't spot Pakistan on a map, let alone be manipulated by Modi. You're giving too much importance to yourselves. Talking about Pakistan do not win elections. Modi won the election because of the development activities he did in rural areas and breaking the caste politics.

No, I'm just not gullible like you. I don't believe random tweets, and propaganda, simply because it confirms by biases.

It's called critical thinking, look it up.

Cognitive ability is also part of critical thinking which you seem to be lacking. So far you have only discredited the source by calling it "nobody, zero credibility, fake" and calling me a moron. But you totally believe the daughter of Kashmiri politician in detention.

It's called confirmation bias, look it up.

Don't be dumb. You know nothing would change. From the beginning, Nehru himself was against the very notion of having a muslim majority region, which was one of the reasons why pakistan split in the first place.

Only dumb one is you who argues on a hypothetical scenario and use it to justify the need for Pakistan. Then get real, Pakistan exist you split up from India first, and from yourselves later. I'm not going to dive into history which has been discussed to death on PDF.

It really hasn't, but it probably does sponsor militants in Kashmir.

What a fuking surprise, that's what I said, you sponsor militants. When you are caught, there are many repercussions like the FATF grey list for financing terrorism. The existence of LeT, HM, JeM and their founders, like Hafiz Saeed, Masood Azhar being on the global terrorist list.

Isn't there new evidence that shows afzal guru may have been framed?

Also, considering that locals are constantly shouting pro-Pakistan slogans, and hold Pakistani flags at protests, you have to be blind to take your comment seriously.

If this was 10 years ago, hell, even 5 years ago, I would have probably said that Kashmiris don't support pakistan. Modi's actions have changed everything.

The only evidence is Afzal Guru had an accomplice in Jammu and Kashmir police force. He flaunted his actions in front of the media before he was given death penalty. If this was 25 years ago, you would've said the same thing. That's in your psyche, that's why your military did what it did in 1965 and 1999. Who knows, you might again try this hoping Kashmiris will revolt against the government once they see mard-e-momins from Pakistan coming for their rescue.
The valley people love nobody but their ilk. You might see them caring for the Kashmiri militants killed, but the Muj from Pakistan are left alone for the IA to handle. Also, Kashmiris were instrumental in both 65 and 99 in your defeat. Not just they provided your locations from time to time, also they were supplying IA with food and clothes during the winter when you tried your luck in 99 since we were short of supplies.