Pakistan possible answer against india nuclear submarine

[Guest]

And here are some rumors
1) China has canceled the lease of the 092G together with 12.5 billion investments in Gwadar port due to security reasons. It seems that Mr.10% has chosen the 11 billion US packages rather than the Chinese package singed by the ex-president.

2) The Indian N-sub is still under construction, the nuclear power plant and weapon system are incomplete, which means it can neither move nor attack.

 

[Kamakazi 69]

Wont the nuclear submarine be easier to detect as it is noisier than diesel submarines?

We don't have delusions of a blue-water navy and I think our diesel electric submarines can defend our coastlines more than adequately.

 

[Kamakazi 69]

Correct me if I’m wrong

1) Diesel subs can’t deliver nuke missiles, coz they are too small to lunch it.
2) The chances of N-subs to be sunk by D-subs are extremely slim, and ambush is the only chance for D-subs. Coz A. the N-subs can choose to engaged or not; B. the N-subs can lunch their heavy-torpedoes first and then disengaged;

Submarine warfare is about patience and stealth. You track your enemy for an eternity while at the same time avoid him making contact with him. It's a pretty slow process. Ambushing your opponent is a very good tactic.
And considering our submarines would hesitate to go that far from the coast and take on the Indian Navy means that our tactics are well suited to diesel submarines due to the fact that they are smaller and quieter.

 

[arihant]

Post in wrong thread... Sorry

 

[Myth_buster_1]

Correct me if I’m wrong

1) Diesel subs can’t deliver nuke missiles, coz they are too small to lunch it.
2) The chances of N-subs to be sunk by D-subs are extremely slim, and ambush is the only chance for D-subs. Coz A. the N-subs can choose to engaged or not; B. the N-subs can lunch their heavy-torpedoes first and then disengaged;

1) Diesel subs have the capability to fire long range cruise missiles. in case of PAKistan who are already developing Sub-launch version of babur Cruise missile which will be equipped in Augosta-90B and Type-214.
2) i have no idea from where you got that. but in indo-pak context a good top of the line diesel sub like type-214 have alot of advantages over average nuclear powered sub like Arihant or even chinese.
a) stay undetected on sea bed more effectively.
b) very very very low Acoustics signature meaning very hard to detect.
c) more torpedo tubes meaning more armaments can be launched at same time. Primary torpedoes are DM2A4 and Black shark which are by far one of the best long range torpedoes. in fact DM2A4 have the longest range and the most deadliest which is not going to be equipped in arihant.
and no.. ambush is not the only chance their are many other ways.

 

[Guest]

1) Diesel subs have the capability to fire long range cruise missiles. in case of PAKistan who are already developing Sub-launch version of babur Cruise missile which will be equipped in Augosta-90B and Type-214.
2) i have no idea from where you got that. but in indo-pak context a good top of the line diesel sub like type-214 have alot of advantages over average nuclear powered sub like Arihant or even chinese.
a) stay undetected on sea bed more effectively.
b) very very very low Acoustics signature meaning very hard to detect.
c) more torpedo tubes meaning more armaments can be launched at same time. Primary torpedoes are DM2A4 and Black shark which are by far one of the best long range torpedoes. in fact DM2A4 have the longest range and the most deadliest which is not going to be equipped in arihant.
and no.. ambush is not the only chance their are many other ways.

1) Well, I don’t think any countries dare to mount a nuclear warhead on a cruise missile, just like no countries would mount a conventional warhead on a ballistic missile. It’s a universal acknowledgement that a CM means conventional and a BM means nuclear, so I think it will remain the same in the foreseeable future.

2) In a scout mission, you are right. D-subs are quiet and difficult to detect. But in a hunting context, where the N-subs are deployed to hunt down the quiet enemies, it’s quite a different story. The N-sub will turn on all its active detectors, so hiding is meaningless. Furthermore, the range of the torpedoes is not a constant. 50KMs may be is the longest range of DM2A4 while attacking a sit-still target. But for a fish that can swim at 30+ knots, its effective range would reduce significantly (5-8 KMs maybe). And how fast can a D-sub run underwater: 10 or 20 knot at the most, which means the effective range, for its enemy, would be 8-11KMs. And that would be the differences between live and death.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

IMO indian troller?
In advance sorry if you are a pakistan.

1) Well, I don’t think any countries dare to mount a nuclear warhead on a cruise missile, just like no countries would mount a conventional warhead on a ballistic missile. It’s a universal acknowledgement that a CM means conventional and a BM means nuclear, so I think it will remain the same in the foreseeable future.

did you read your own post? because it does not make sense to me.
Pakistan did not produce long range Cruise missiles for just "conventional" warhead. its only your opinion based on unknown facts that pakistan will not use nukes on Sub launch CM. and no no.. its not a universal acknowledgmnet but its all based on doctrines. for intense pakistan will not be shy to use nukes on just about any means of delivering be it CM BM MRCAs or any platforms.

2) In a scout mission, you are right. D-subs are quiet and difficult to detect. But in a hunting context, where the N-subs are deployed to hunt down the quiet enemies, it’s quite a different story.

huh? their is no such thing as "N-subs deployed to hunt quietest subs". it all depends on classification of the submarines.

SSBN ballistic nuclear missile-carrying submarine
SSGN Cruise missile submarine
SSK long-range attack submarine
SSN nuclear-powered fast attack submarine

The N-sub will turn on all its active detectors, so hiding is meaningless. Furthermore, the range of the torpedoes is not a constant. 50KMs may be is the longest range of DM2A4 while attacking a sit-still target.

seriously....? what active detectors? please enlighten us. furthermore please enlighten us a little bit about this "meaningless hiding" for "D-SUB".

But for a fish that can swim at 30+ knots, its effective range would reduce significantly (5-8 KMs maybe).

A dream come true for a SSK specially when its on a hunt for Nuclear sub. do you know how much acoustic signature average nuclear sub like Arihant is going to be generating at this speed? like i said before. a dream come true for ASuW Aircraft, Frigates, corvettes, etc...

And how fast can a D-sub run underwater: 10 or 20 knot at the most, which means the effective range, for its enemy, would be 8-11KMs. And that would be the differences between live and death.

all i have to say.. you have a long way to learn and understand this subject.

please dont mind if you are a pakistani which i highly dough

 

[Guest]

IMO indian troller?
In advance sorry if you are a pakistan.

indian troller? No! i'm just standing for the N-subs.

did you read your own post? because it does not make sense to me.
Pakistan did not produce long range Cruise missiles for just "conventional" warhead. its only your opinion based on unknown facts that pakistan will not use nukes on Sub launch CM. and no no.. its not a universal acknowledgmnet but its all based on doctrines. for intense pakistan will not be shy to use nukes on just about any means of delivering be it CM BM MRCAs or any platforms.

of course you can, but you have to shoulder the consequences as well. that 's why US have to ask permittion from Russia,UK,China... etc before mounting converntional warheads on BMs. guess what, she got nothing but "No"s, no one wants to cross that red line and trigger a nuclear war accidentally.

huh? their is no such thing as "N-subs deployed to hunt quietest subs". it all depends on classification of the submarines.

SSBN ballistic nuclear missile-carrying submarine
SSGN Cruise missile submarine
SSK long-range attack submarine
SSN nuclear-powered fast attack submarine

what classification is irrelevant. as long as they are nuclear powered, they are fast and have the energy to power up all the equipments on board as long as they wished.

seriously....? what active detectors? please enlighten us. furthermore please enlighten us a little bit about this "meaningless hiding" for "D-SUB".

low/high frequency active sonar or even midium frequency ones whose feed back data are perfect to be used in underwater image processing.

A dream come true for a SSK specially when its on a hunt for Nuclear sub. do you know how much acoustic signature average nuclear sub like Arihant is going to be generating at this speed? like i said before. a dream come true for ASuW Aircraft, Frigates, corvettes, etc...

well, i suppose we are talking about an one on one scenario. a system confrontation would be quite different of course, and i'm sure you will figure out a best system to match the enemies.

all i have to say.. you have a long way to learn and understand this subject.

prove me wrong plz. "officially 'greater than 5 miles' " is the wiki data.

please dont mind if you are a pakistani which i highly dough

at least you got this right, i'm a .
BTW, how to deter the enemy N-subs is not a fresh topic for PLAN. and yellow water, <=200KMs off shore, ambush seems to be the option available.

 

[black tiger]

Hi,
Reading above post's gives me an imprrssion that some of you feel that in a confrontation between an SSN & an SSK(note SSBN's are stragergic weapons they prefer to lurk far from enemy vessels ready to launch once the go ahead is given, their torpedoes are for defence only, no SSBN captain would risk his boat and his country's stratrgic trump card on an wild goose chase) In a confrontation between an SSK & an SSN, the SSN enters the field with an distinc disadvantages ie.it cannot shut down all it's equipments and go totally silent, it has to keep it's coolant pumps running. From then on the outcome is determined by onboard systems.
Regarding using active sonar, submarines prefer to remain quiet, because their strength lies in stealth once that is compromised then they can be easily destroyed, and further passive sonar has long range, for example us SSBN's can allegedly listen to target's hundred's of km away and take evasive action. Whereas active sonar is very short range and further ur passive sonar becomes useless when you are active, and every one in the area can can hear you & u might attract unwanted company. Hope this helps.
Thank you.

 

[sadiqams]

The indian made nuclear sub has no nuclear reactor, as yet, so how is it a nuclear sub?

 

[Myth_buster_1]

i

of course you can, but you have to shoulder the consequences as well. that 's why US have to ask permittion from Russia,UK,China... etc before mounting converntional warheads on BMs. guess what, she got nothing but "No"s, no one wants to cross that red line and trigger a nuclear war accidentally.

Wow. and where you get your information from? what ever you have heard about this subject please kindly leave it behind and listen to some credible information.
Perior to 2008 French nuclear-powered aircraft carrier Charles de Gaulle use to carry live nuclear warheads! its a freaking "AIR CRAFT CARRIER"! i am not going to emphasize on that every nuclear power country carries nukes on their platforms but all i have to say when the situation arise for any country they are going to make it dam sure that their nuclear weapons are deployed!
in case of pak-indo... i too agree that in peace time both of their side wont carry around nuclear weapons under normal circumstances but like i have said before it wont take much time in tense situation to do so..

what classification is irrelevant. as long as they are nuclear powered, they are fast and have the energy to power up all the equipments on board as long as they wished.

You do not know of what you are talking about. nuclear powered submarines do not necessarily means they are the best subs in the world! you can have a nuclear powered sub from 60s and get toasted by average 21st century diesel sub. you have to be spesific about which sub you are talking about. you can not win arguments about nuclear powered subs based on technicality of superior US nuclear submarine and say indian or chinese nuclear subs are one of the best in the world.
another thing. like black tiger has said above..

submarines prefer to remain quiet, because their strength lies in stealth once that is compromised then they can be easily destroyed,

in your case running indian/chinese nuclear powered subs on top speed will result in increase of its acoustic signature and detection of the sub.

low/high frequency active sonar or even midium frequency ones whose feed back data are perfect to be used in underwater image processing.

and?

well, i suppose we are talking about an one on one scenario. a system confrontation would be quite different of course, and i'm sure you will figure out a best system to match the enemies.

to be precise Type-214 vs Arihant....

prove me wrong plz. "officially 'greater than 5 miles' " is the wiki data.

"WIKIPEDIA" and thats were everything gets wrong

 

[garibnawaz]

NEWS AGOSTA SUBS FRON FRANCE AND UPGRADES ON AGOSTA 70s
CAN BE A VERY GOOD DEAL FOR PN AT THIS PART OF TIME

Operational life for Augosta-70's is over. The new boats are simply going to replace the 70's.

GB

 

[SEAL]

Haven't u heard chief of naval staff that we will go for nuke sub......though i can't tell my source but its confirm nd as i said before u will soon have good news of nuke sub of Pakistan!!!!

Pakistan is working on nuclear submarines since 1993......and soon u people will came to know about our nuke sub....besides if india remains the only nuke sub holder in this region then it will be soon a problem for Pakistan...believe it or not soon Pakistan will be nuke sub holder......u can bet on this if Pakistan does not announce about its nuke sub within 1 year and 8 months then i'll leave this forum for ever...

I totally agree with you

 

[praveen]

I think we are missing the point here.

The SSBN is not meant as a gesture towards Pakistan. India believes it has neutralized Pakistan as an offensive threat long ago and is now eyeing the big leagues.

good point.You dont need a SSBN for Pakistan whose cities are quite near to the fence

With the SSBN, the space program, the top billionaires list, etc., India is joining a number of exclusive clubs and is ticking all the right boxes to sit at the Big Boys table. And it will be welcomed by the West which has been helping India and cultivating it as a counterweight against China.

Of course, India still has enormous poverty and internal problems but, unlike us, they are moving in the right direction. They have a world class education system that churns out very smart people, a growing economy that brings in forex, and a very effective propaganda and diplomacy apparatus active around the world.


The Pakistan armed forces have done remarkably well given our country's far more limited resources and the sanctions, but we cannot continue this arms race with India unless we improve our fundamentals.

Democracy,Hard work and dedication worked for us .We started nation building 63 years back and we will continue it for eternity

When will Pakistan start nation building

We also need to forge strong military alliances in the region. A couple of PAF bases and nuclear-armed Agostas parked in Sri Lanka and Bangladesh would cause much insomnia in Delhi.

.
Sri Lanka and Bangladesh may not be friendly to us ,but they do not want to be an enemy of a billion people esp Sri Lanka

How are you going to secure Logistic lines for those two bases?

 

[IceCold]

When will Pakistan start nation building

I dont think any Indian needs to worry about that. Tough times does not mean we do not have a nation or we do not understand the concept of nation building or for that matter we havent started one.