Pakistan pivots to center as US and China vie for regional supremacy

[Indus Pakistan]

We're not in any circle of theirs.

Sometimes the most obvious is ignored. You, I and million others live in UK. Millions others live in the wider West. Give me a shout when we have millions of Paks living in China with mosques on every corner.

Not going to happen. Yeh they might agree to few 'show examples' but you know what is happening to Uighurs. We all do.

We're not in any circle of theirs.

Sometimes the most obvious is ignored. You, I and million others live in UK. Millions others live in the wider West. Give me a shout when we have millions of Paks living in China with mosques on every corner.

Not going to happen. Yeh they might agree to few 'show examples' but you know what is happening to Uighurs. We all do.

 

[waz]

Sometimes the most obvious is ignored. You, I and million others live in UK. Millions others live in the wider West. Give me a shout when we have millions of Paks living in China with mosques on every corner.

Not going to happen. Yeh they might agree to few 'show examples' but you know what is happening to Uighurs. We all do.

That's the UK specific.
Now give me a shout when you see that in France, Spain, Germany and so on.
They don't like us.

 

[Ace of Spades]

It's not a question of blame. This is not about kindergarten tantrums of blame game. Countries move driven by geo-strategic considerations. The point I was making is US/UK acted the way they did because they feared India would fall to red China. That is why they carried out a massive weapon transfer to India in 1962 to beef it up against Red China. Then in 1965 they placed restraint on Pakistan because they did not want India to placed at risk from China.

I hope you understand what I mean by the China card. Nehru played on Washington's fear of red communism and milked them for weapons/aid. These were used against PK later.

So is the history repeating itself again?

If we further elaborate on the premise you are talking about; china stays to be a threat for an alternate system for west and quickly replacing. Discount Afghanistan factor; Pakistan is not even gonna get soybeans from USA in future forget about EF solaz. Pakistan got it's weaponry because Pakistan was used like a tissue paper against Soviets; not because Pakistan's security ever was a concern for US. Fast forward to today, India is being pitched against China; Pakistan would be asked for choosing sides for few lollipops. What would Pakistan loose? China as an ally, her sovereignty to Hindustanis in region. No weaponry from US/west because of India factor. Where would it leave Pakistan? and why should Pakistan ever do that?

 

[313ghazi]

It makes a lot of sense for Pakistan to position itself where it can gain maximum benefit, but the idea that this will be in the Western camp is foolish.

The Pressler agreement should never be forgotten. Watch how the Americans turn on us as soon as they leave Afghanistan.

We might not share religious values or a colonial history with the Chinese, but they've never betrayed us.

 

[Winchester]

This just from yesterday.

Redirect Notice

While the F.A. pass General starts to have cold feet, other countries with a milennia of experience in statecraft and can judge which way the wind is blowing are moving in.

 

[313ghazi]

Sometimes the most obvious is ignored. You, I and million others live in UK. Millions others live in the wider West. Give me a shout when we have millions of Paks living in China with mosques on every corner.

Not going to happen. Yeh they might agree to few 'show examples' but you know what is happening to Uighurs. We all do.
Sometimes the most obvious is ignored. You, I and million others live in UK. Millions others live in the wider West. Give me a shout when we have millions of Paks living in China with mosques on every corner.

Not going to happen. Yeh they might agree to few 'show examples' but you know what is happening to Uighurs. We all do.

It's largely irrelevant. We're in the UK because the UK needed workers and they had relationships with our country as our former colonisers. Large parts of the UK regret ever asking our ancestors to work here.

We have a largely working class community - its not like we have the influence of the British Jews.

Yeah we share a language and we share a shared abrahamic root to our faith, but in a largely secular UK it counts for nothing.

 

[CIA Mole]

idk man americans still associate pakistan with harboring osama bin laden

they see the whole region as terrorists

 

[waz]

It makes a lot of sense for Pakistan to position itself where it can gain maximum benefit, but the idea that this will be in the Western camp is foolish.

The Pressler agreement should never be forgotten. Watch how the Americans turn on us as soon as they leave Afghanistan.

We might not share religious values or a colonial history with the Chinese, but they've never betrayed us.

You can go beyond Pressler see 1965, CENTO etc.
Pakistan first, although I am still for ties with the US. But this towing the line and India is really your friend BS is not on.
The region is already forming into a Sino/Russian grouping on one side and QUAD on the other.

 

[Itachi]

Nothing to do with China, that is Pakistani greed.

What Pakistani greed?? Helping other Muslims is "greed" now??

 

[Ace of Spades]

The region is already forming into a Sino/Russian grouping on one side and QUAD on the other.

Exactly; and this confusion and riding two horses policy at this moment can rather back fire. There is a need for much needed clarity in foreign policy, which unfortunately is looking too vague for now.

 

[Itachi]

You can go beyond Pressler see 1965, CENTO etc.
Pakistan first, although I am still for ties with the US. But this towing the line and India is really your friend BS is not on.
The region is already forming into a Sino/Russian grouping on one side and QUAD on the other.

Right. It's a good time to not be aligned fully with the Sino/Russian group...

Be like India, play both sides.

Exactly; and this confusion and riding two horses policy at this moment can rather back fire. There is a need for much needed clarity in foreign policy, which unfortunately is looking too vague for now.

India deals with both Russia and the US. Israel plays all sides. Russian, Chinese, Indian and US. It even tries to be goodie goodie with Pakistan...

 

[waz]

Right. It's a good time to not be aligned fully with the Sino/Russian group...

Be like India, play both sides.

Bro yep keep it cool both ways. No one can hold guns to anyone's head anymore. Those days are gone. Nations face chaos with COVID recovery, internal divisions etc. No one has time and resources to play civilisation around the world.

Exactly; and this confusion and riding two horses policy at this moment can rather back fire. There is a need for much needed clarity in foreign policy, which unfortunately is looking too vague for now.

Aye things are not clear. But the situation is fast moving, and it's hard to settle for a hard stance.

 

[Itachi]

Put your anti-China bias aside and for once adopt some neutrality. No country on the planet is free from error and issues. You view China through Uyghur prism. Just like the Americans view Pakistan through Afghan prism. Don't confine an entire nation to a specific prism.

I don't view anyone or country through any prisms...that might be your illogical thinking.

I view it how anyone views it. It's a atheistic, godless country. Wait till you hear how many Chinese it has killed since 1950's.

More than 20M in a span of a decade...


So how do you think they'll treat minorities like Uyghur if they're ok with killing their own??

 

[Ace of Spades]

India deals with both Russia and the US.

It's rather the other way around. It has been in Russian interest to milk india; and it's in US interest to make money from Indian market and pitch against China.

Israel plays all sides.

Every country is for their interests; when the time comes, when it will come, alignments will be clearer.
Foreign policy and playing on both sides is to done from the position of strength. Pakistan has been pursuing this policy from position of weakness; to get discounts. That's not how it works.

 

[Itachi]

It's rather the other way around. It has been in Russian interest to milk india; and it's in US interest to make money from Indian market and pitch against China.

It's a 2 way street. Everyone is taking advantage of anyone they can get a hand on.

Because of Russia, India has clout in Central Asia. Because of Israel, it has access of Israeli tech. Because of America....well you know what I'm gonna say.