Pakistan pivots to center as US and China vie for regional supremacy

[Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen]

Culturally, linguistically, genetically and morally, we're much closer to the West than China.

This is arguable. The west do not look upon Pakistanis as kinsmen.

 

[ZeEa5KPul]

how that ?

Chinese sanctions are preventing Turkey from supplying the helicopters Pakistan ordered. Oh, wait...

 

[The Maverick]

The west are only interested in India long term ... going centre you lose China and play second best to India regards usa and the west who will always crush on India

 

[waz]

Having watched the game played for decades, there are two nations that have stood by Pakistan through thick and thin, for this topic it's China.
Pakistan's other so called 'allies' have at best abandoned Pakistan and at the worst actually done ample amounts of harm to its people, economy and standing in the global community.
Ultimately making Pakistan strong is the only way forward.

 

[Progressive1]

I have always said this. If most Pakistani's have a problem with goras trust me when they get to know up close the pork snorting athiests they will be in shock. On a serious note this article carries weight. If people like have followed CPEC you will easily see a slowing down post 2019. At the moment CPEC is just a name. Instead of picking up pace there are no new large CPEC projects in the offing. Almost everything is delayed or standing. The olive branch to India is another indicator of behind the scenes involvement of the two Anglo-Saxon powers. Almost all the people in power or not in power have close association with Anglos. Nawaz, Bhuttos, Bajwa, ZBukhari, Moeed Yousef etc etc

For Pakistan it might well be best to stay in the middle and extract the best from both.

I also associate with western civilization , but you cant simply ignore a neighbour that has stood by you in toughest times.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

I also associate with western civilization , but you cant simply ignore a neighbour that has stood by you in toughest times.

It would be suicide to dump a emerging superpower that you invested seven decades of political capital. More about not placing all your eggs in one basket. Pakistan will have to deviate a tough path between the two. Our friends Turks despise the Chinese because of the Uighur Muslim issue. Indeed that exodus you saw of them from PDF was informed by that very issue.

So it will be tough but possible.

This is arguable. The west do not look upon Pakistanis as kinsmen.

We are not in their inner circle but certainly within the broader circle. On the other hand we are alien from you guys. Pakistan's are mostly Caucasians with a tan and often can overlap with Mediteranean Europeans. Our culture, our religion, our history is interwined with the West. Christianity, Judaism, Islam are Abrahamic religions from the same Western Asian region that heavily informed Western civilization. Our history has seen Greek, Scythian etc influences from the West.

But Chinese?

 

[Indus Pakistan]

It's not polite to mention this but I am sure most of heard of the massive airlift of weapons that US carried out during the Yom Kippur war to save Israel from defeat at hands of Egyptians. What most don't know is similiar exercise took place during the Chinese attack on the Indians in 1962. Huge number of weapons were supplied to Delhi to blunt the Chinese attack. After that defence aid continued to frustrate a future Chinese threat to India.

Pakistan protested to America as at that time it was part of the CENTO pact and ally of the West. The Pakistan government complained that those weapons that India requested like tanks etc would be used against Pakistan. Sure enough this were used by India in 1965 against Pakistan. The China factor had actually ended up seeing India being beefed up.

The Americans blocked all supplies in 1965 war because they feared that India would be weakened and the driver was China factor. In fact US and UK placed huge pressure to restrain Pakistan for this very reason. China factor.

So Pakistan has paid dearly for the Chinese friendship.

 

[Winchester]

It would be suicide to dump a emerging superpower that you invested seven decades of political capital. More about not placing all your eggs in one basket. Pakistan will have to deviate a tough path between the two. Our friends Turks despise the Chinese because of the Uighur Muslim issue. Indeed that exodus you saw of them from PDF was informed by that very issue.

So it will be tough but possible.

The Chinese Foreign Minister was just in Turkey.

Geo-Politics is not defined by a bunch of random posters leaving an internet forum over a non-issue.

China is Pakistan's most important foreign relationship.

Its not even about Turkey vs China here....not sure why you brought it up.

For Pakistan, the equation is simple. To resist Indian hegemony, there is no other alternative to China.

The American preposition is also vey clear....all the FATF stuff and other things could all go away if we relegate ourselves to the role Egypt plays in the Middle East.

Permanent servitude to India in exchange for a few lollipops.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Geo-Politics is not defined by a bunch of random posters leaving an internet forum over a non-issue.

I never said that. What I said is that could be a issue as we move forward. The Turks are very sore about Uighurs and as USA elevates this issue it could at some point begin placing a strain on Pakistan/Turkey relationship.

And one or two posters is not a direction but when the whole lot leave for a reason it allludes to a deeper potential fracture as they are a pointer to the Turkish sentiments.

 

[ZeEa5KPul]

So Pakistan has paid dearly for the Chinese friendship.

The "Stockholm Syndrome" quip is an apt one. Let's summarize this situation:

1. China and Pakistan's mortal enemy, India, get into a war in 1962 due to India's provocations and incursions.
2. The West supplies India with weapons and ignores Pakistan's objections.
3. These weapons are then used against Pakistan in 1965.
4. ????
5. China's fault.

Sense, this makes none.

I never said that. What I said is that could be a issue as we move forward. The Turks are very sore about Uighurs and as USA elevates this issue it could at some point begin placing a strain on Pakistan/Turkey relationship.

The Turks (as in Turkish government) cares about Uighurs about as much as I do. They just use them for domestic political posturing. The thing you need to understand is that you're being taken for a ride: Nobody with power actually cares about Uighurs or any other ethnic group. They're just using them as propaganda to try to stymie a rival.

The question you should ask yourself is do you want to clue up about how the world actually works or do you just want to consume propaganda like cattle at a feedlot?

 

[Ace of Spades]

It's not polite to mention this but I am sure most of heard of the massive airlift of weapons that US carried out during the Yom Kippur war to save Israel from defeat at hands of Egyptians. What most don't know is similiar exercise took place during the Chinese attack on the Indians in 1962. Huge number of weapons were supplied to Delhi to blunt the Chinese attack. After that defence aid continued to frustrate a future Chinese threat to India.

Pakistan protested to America as at that time it was part of the CENTO pact and ally of the West. The Pakistan government complained that those weapons that India requested like tanks etc would be used against Pakistan. Sure enough this were used by India in 1965 against Pakistan. The China factor had actually ended up seeing India being beefed up.

The Americans blocked all supplies in 1965 war because they feared that India would be weakened and the driver was China factor. In fact US and UK placed huge pressure to restrain Pakistan for this very reason. China factor.

So Pakistan has paid dearly for the Chinese friendship.

Some how you shift the blame from US/UK who ditched Pakistan to China; who helped Pakistan by providing much needed weaponry during those wars?

 

[waz]

We are not in their inner circle but certainly within the broader circle. On the other hand we are alien from you guys. Pakistan's are mostly Caucasians with a tan and often can overlap with Mediteranean Europeans. Our culture, our religion, our history is interwined with the West. Christianity, Judaism, Islam are Abrahamic religions from the same Western Asian region that heavily informed Western civilization. Our history has seen Greek, Scythian etc influences from the West.

But Chinese?

Bro serious? We're not in any circle of theirs. Unless you're not willing to shed tonnes of your identity, be ok with your women being exotic bed notches for the Euro male, and have a general subservient trend towards them you won't even get a look in.
They've never embraced us, history shows it time and time again.
The stuff about faith is irrelevant as most describe themselves as agnostic, religious and atheist.

 

[Winchester]

I never said that. What I said is that could be a issue as we move forward. The Turks are very sore about Uighurs and as USA elevates this issue it could at some point begin placing a strain on Pakistan/Turkey relationship.

And one or two posters is not a direction but when the whole lot leave for a reason it allludes to a deeper potential fracture as they are a pointer to the Turkish sentiments.

It wouldn't if the Turkish establishment doesn't want it to be.

Even if the Euro-Asian allignment between Russia-China-Turkey doesn't pan out, the Turkish state still would want to manage its relationship with China, just for the enormous economic clout Beijing has.

Public sentiments are fickle....16 years ago, the same Trump anti-interventionist voters were renaming french fries as freedom fries because the French dared to question the invasion of Iraq.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Some how you shift the blame from US/UK who ditched Pakistan to China; who helped Pakistan by providing much needed weaponry during those wars?

It's not a question of blame. This is not about kindergarten tantrums of blame game. Countries move driven by geo-strategic considerations. The point I was making is US/UK acted the way they did because they feared India would fall to red China. That is why they carried out a massive weapon transfer to India in 1962 to beef it up against Red China. Then in 1965 they placed restraint on Pakistan because they did not want India to placed at risk from China.

I hope you understand what I mean by the China card. Nehru played on Washington's fear of red communism and milked them for weapons/aid. These were used against PK later.

 

[313ghazi]

Waj has been seriously pissed at the government for some reason. He's been writing shit about them for a while. It started off so well for him, sitting in Nawaz Sharifs oppulant bath tubs...