Pakistan opted for F-16 than JAS Gripen

[F.O.X]

We i think F-16 is one step of saab bcoz.

Saab has 7 hard points as compared to 9 of F-16.

Air-to-air missiles which have been carried on the F-16 include the Lockheed Martin/Raytheon AIM-9 Sidewinder, Raytheon AMRAAM, Raytheon Sparrow, MBDA (formerly Matra BAe Dynamics) Skyflash and ASRAAM, and the MBDA R550 Magic 2 & Aim 9x sidewinder . but in Saab there is a short range of missiles, air-to-air missiles include MBDA (formerly Matra BAe Dynamics) MICA, Raytheon AIM-120B AMRAAM and Lockheed Martin / Raytheon Sidewinder AIM-9L.

For ground Attack role F-16 can carry, Maverick, HARM and Shrike & for Anti Ship role F-16 can carry Harpoon and Kongsberg Penguin. & for Saab Ground Attack missile include Raytheon Maverick %Saab RBS15F & for Anti Ship Role.

The F-16 can be fitted with Lockheed Martin Wind Corrected Munitions Dispenser (WCMD), which provides precision guidance for CBU-87, -89, and 97 cluster munitions. but it is not Present in Saab.

F-16 uses various types of counter measures include, Lockheed Martin superheterodyne AN/ALR-56M Radar Warning Receiver. The F-16 is also compatible with a range of jammers and electronic countermeasures equipment, including Northrop Grumman AN/ALQ-131, Raytheon AN/ALQ-184, Elisra SPS 3000 and Elta EL/L-8240, and the Northrop Grumman ALQ-165 self-protection suite. but Saab Avionics is responsible for the EWS 39 electronic warfare suite, which has been ordered by the Swedish Air Force. EWS 39 is an integrated EW system that provides radar warning, electronic support measures and chaff and flare decoy dispensers.

F-16 is Fitted with the Northrop Grumman AN/APG-68 radar provides 25 separate air-to-air and air-to-ground modes. in other hand Saab uses the Ericsson PS-05 long-range multi-purpose pulse Doppler radar has air-to air operating modes covering long-range search,

So it is clear that PAF made good choice.

Regards
Wilco

 

[su-47]

i think F-16 is better for pak since:

1) Pak already operates F-16s - No new infrastructure has to b built whereas for gripen, new support, logistics, training etc has to b provided.

2) Spares - if USA puts sanctions both gripen and F-16 will be affected, so no big difference there. i dont think turkey can supply spares if USA stops them.

3) performance - as indicated by wilco above

4) India - Sweden has offered joint co-operation with india on jets, subs and ships. Pak wouldnt want to get a plane whose tech india has access to, no matter how limited that access would be

 

[solid snake]

F-16 > Gripen.

End of story

 

[IceCold]

i think F-16 is better for pak since:

1) Pak already operates F-16s - No new infrastructure has to b built whereas for gripen, new support, logistics, training etc has to b provided.

Having infrastructure does not mean one should go for cheap stuff such as the F-16s. India has the infrastructure for the mig21, does that mean she isnt going to replace it.

2) Spares - if USA puts sanctions both gripen and F-16 will be affected, so no big difference there. i dont think turkey can supply spares if USA stops them.

Not necessarly, Saab does not have much of the coustmers as it faces tough competion with other western fighters, puting sactions will be like loosing coustmers. Besides we could have opted with complete TOT.

3) performance - as indicated by wilco above

Wilco is suggesting what would it be if we got the same F-16s we hoped for. Are we getting those. Hell no. These plane seriously lacks an offencive punch, tight security monitoring, Lacking DRFM, Unable to carry nukes, Pakistan not able to modify the jet according to her needs as we have done it in the past. This plane for us is as cheap as it may get. AC i dont know what the hell does he mean when says we have a capable fighter jet platform, so is he just smoking something of the hook here.

4) India - Sweden has offered joint co-operation with india on jets, subs and ships. Pak wouldnt want to get a plane whose tech india has access to, no matter how limited that access would be

Are you suggesting that US hasnt provided the same offer to India regarding the F-16s.

 

[su-47]

Having infrastructure does not mean one should go for cheap stuff such as the F-16s. India has the infrastructure for the mig21, does that mean she isnt going to replace it.

Thats different. MiG-21 is a cold war relic. The F-16s r still very potent. Logistics, support and infrastructure matters coz it can really bring up costs

Not necessarly, Saab does not have much of the coustmers as it faces tough competion with other western fighters, puting sactions will be like loosing coustmers. Besides we could have opted with complete TOT.

I wasnt talking of sweden putting sanctions, but USA putting sanctions. gripen uses US engines.

Wilco is suggesting what would it be if we got the same F-16s we hoped for. Are we getting those. Hell no. These plane seriously lacks an offencive punch, tight security monitoring, Lacking DRFM, Unable to carry nukes, Pakistan not able to modify the jet according to her needs as we have done it in the past. This plane for us is as cheap as it may get. AC i dont know what the hell does he mean when says we have a capable fighter jet platform, so is he just smoking something of the hook here.

They have more punch than u give credit for. They are very useful for pakistani airspace, especially with AWAC support.

Are you suggesting that US hasnt provided the same offer to India regarding the F-16s.

USA offered the jets to india for MRCA. sweden offered Gripen for MRCA + they offered co-development of jets, subs and ships, whether india buys gripen or not (though obviously they offered in the first place hoping we'll buy gripen). There is a difference there in that we'll only get F-16 tech if we buy it, whereas we can get gripen tech (though not full tech) even if we dont buy.

 

[IceCold]

Thats different. MiG-21 is a cold war relic. The F-16s r still very potent. Logistics, support and infrastructure matters coz it can really bring up costs

F-16s are a potent weapon but not the ones we are getting and i have mentioned the reasons for it. Regarding cost and logistics, support, infrastructure, do you seriously believe these things come into play when you are up against an enemy who not only has numerical superority but techinally wise too. How do one expect to counter it when you are lacking in all the fields.

I wasnt talking of sweden putting sanctions, but USA putting sanctions. gripen uses US engines.



They have more punch than u give credit for. They are very useful for pakistani airspace, especially with AWAC support.

How can they be useful for pakistani airspace, incase you have forgotten the palnes are not allowed to leave pakistan airspace without american approval. Do you think it is feasable that in case of an indian attack, we'll be asking permissions to strike back. Some one said that F-16s can carry more payload, whats the use of this payload when you cant exactly leave pakistan airspace without permission. And if it is suppose to be a defensive fighter, then its an utter waste of resources and time. We already have JFs for it which is almost 70% capable to an F-16s, i believe 100% or even better against the ones we are getting.

USA offered the jets to india for MRCA. sweden offered Gripen for MRCA + they offered co-development of jets, subs and ships, whether india buys gripen or not (though obviously they offered in the first place hoping we'll buy gripen). There is a difference there in that we'll only get F-16 tech if we buy it, whereas we can get gripen tech (though not full tech) even if we dont buy.

The chances are equal, since the new strategic patnership between the US and india, it is more likely for the indians to go for the US fighters and specially when the most advance version of the F-16s along with tot being offered.

 

[su-47]

F-16s are a potent weapon but not the ones we are getting and i have mentioned the reasons for it. Regarding cost and logistics, support, infrastructure, do you seriously believe these things come into play when you are up against an enemy who not only has numerical superority but techinally wise too. How do one expect to counter it when you are lacking in all the fields.

Think outside the airforce spectrum. if PAF gobbles up most of the defence budget for providing logistical support, infrastructure and spares for gripens, it'll lower the amount available to PA and PN, reducing their combat capacity.

How can they be useful for pakistani airspace, incase you have forgotten the palnes are not allowed to leave pakistan airspace without american approval. Do you think it is feasable that in case of an indian attack, we'll be asking permissions to strike back. Some one said that F-16s can carry more payload, whats the use of this payload when you cant exactly leave pakistan airspace without permission. And if it is suppose to be a defensive fighter, then its an utter waste of resources and time. We already have JFs for it which is almost 70% capable to an F-16s, i believe 100% or even better against the ones we are getting.

Hmm. you have a point there. but i guess that in case of war USA will allow those F-16s to b used offensively, especially if india is the agressor.

The chances are equal, since the new strategic patnership between the US and india, it is more likely for the indians to go for the US fighters and specially when the most advance version of the F-16s along with tot being offered.

India wont go for f-16s for the simple reason that F-16s will soon be replaced in US inventory and that pak already operates F-16s. if India goes for a US fighter, its most likely to be f-18.

 

[IceCold]

Think outside the airforce spectrum. if PAF gobbles up most of the defence budget for providing logistical support, infrastructure and spares for gripens, it'll lower the amount available to PA and PN, reducing their combat capacity.

The country which looses air control over her skies, no matter how strong the army or navy is, one can never win the war. I would wana quote Quaid-e-Azam famous words regarding AirForce:
"A country without a strong air force is at the mercy of any aggressor, Pakistan must build up her Air Force as quickly as possible, it must be an efficient Air Force, second to none"

Hmm. you have a point there. but i guess that in case of war USA will allow those F-16s to b used offensively, especially if india is the agressor.

I serously doubt it. Since american sactions are known to all whether the agressor is india or not. Otherwise why would these restrictions being placed at the first place? It was to counter india's objections and there reservations regarding the planes to be used against them.

India wont go for f-16s for the simple reason that F-16s will soon be replaced in US inventory and that pak already operates F-16s. if India goes for a US fighter, its most likely to be f-18.

Still F-16s is in the list and one of the advanced versions of it to compete in india's MRCA requirement.

 

[Contrarian]

The version they are offering India is not even in a prototype stage mate. They are trying to develop a blk 70 NOW, for those who might find the F-35 too expensive, and need an intermediate between the 4th and 5th gen plane. India wont be buying F-16's anyways, Pakistan operates them.

 

[Neo]

What backup are we talking about here.

I'll brief you on it asap. Some confidential information we can't discuss in the open yet.

 

[Neo]

JAS has US engine and parts, so its better to stick with F16. Plus Pakistan has fully trained crew ,plus turkey is great support for parts or any other services. Is Gripen flying by any muslim country ?

RSA is the only export customer of the Gripen sofar as it has failed to compete against the Typhoon (Austria) and block 50/52 Falcon (Hungry, Poland). Let them come with the JAS-39NG, it will be a true gen 4.5 MRCA.

 

[Neo]

Hence the FC-20 already in a line up. Improved J-10 with western avionics, is probably the best fighter Pakistan get without spending a lot!

I agree, its for a reason we've pushed the entry to 2010/11, many subsystems and avionics suits are being evaluated for modification in Pakistan as they will not be made available to the Chinese directly. A mix of Italian, German, French and Russian systems will make FC-20 a hell of a gen 4.5 MRCA at half the rate as Rafale or Typhoon.

 

[IceCold]

Neo if i may too be included in that confidential discussion. i really would love too see the option other then the F-16s for PAF.

 

[EagleEyes]

I'll brief you on it asap. Some confidential information we can't discuss in the open yet.

Already know it.

But lets hope that 1st tier is completed. Both ways it is beneficial. While the 2nd one is my favorite.

 

[IceCold]

I guess, we'll have to wait for more till the news gets declassified