Pakistan officially inducts HQ 9 Air Defence system

[Muhammad Saftain Anjum]

they are looking to compliment this.

Don't you think Hq 9 p is enough now.PAF still needs any long range defence system???

 

[EternalMortal]

Farmers will flee or be evacuated regardless.. both from Lahore and its surrounding areas.

There is a massive Indian armored thrust heading to Lahore and one heading to cut the Okara to Jhang axis which captured 3 vital supply links.. what can Lahore supply from Mall road to its food production to “vital economics” that will justify saving it versus sacrificing critical communication and supply lines to 5 major urban areas along with countless military facilities?

What's justified is protecting our warfighting capability most of which is located in north & east punjab (which includes lahore). You don't think lahore's economy matters? How do you plan on paying for your imports then? Among others, you're also losing a big chunk of your IT & electronics industries, 2 areas that are crucial to modern warfare. You need food to feed the ppl. Farmers aren't going to flee "regardless". Why would they flee if lahore is successfully defended? Their lands would no longer be in danger. If we've lost lahore then that also means we've lost a significant portion of our capabilities since our soldiers & equipment would be captured. If india sets up a bridgehead in lahore they can then also easily threaten the other big industrial areas of punjab. That thrust to okara has a greater chance of being successful if lahore is taken.
You're ignoring the IDPs which will be an additional burden. And again, additional resources will be needed to retake lahore. Another thing you ignore is morale. Losing a city like lahore would be devastating & bring down trust in the state's ability to defend its citizens. More ppl would pressure the gov to make peace. Chances of nuclear escalation also greatly increase so foreign powers would also pressurize. If we do negotiate, our leverage would be greatly diminished.

Karachi isn't in any real danger of being taken. The only thing we need to worry about is the keeping the port safe & preventing a blockade. However, with gwadar coming on board, karachi's port decreases in importance since we now have another option. Other ports can also be developed & expanded i.e. pasni & ormara. We could even work something out with the iran & central asian states if needs be.

We have alternatives to karachi's port. We DON'T have another lahore. As another poster said, there's a reason why the armed forces have directed a big chunk of their strength in defending lahore.

 

[iLION12345_1]

Don't you think Hq 9 p is enough now.PAF still needs any long range defence system???

PAF needs them for separate roles and reasons than PA.

 

[KaiserX]

Your little insecurities and genocidal tendencies wouldn't do that much good to you! . It's useless to argue with your insanity. Around 1/5th of the Pakistan's population lives in 2 big cities and you are willing to sacrifice them for what? It's not 1940s or 60s anymore.

For rest of the members:
A country like Pakistan who has to threaten to attack another small country thousands of kilometers away just for its own survival, while having highly questionable power projection attributes of those sorts defines the posture it has to continuously maintain to survive.

Pakistan since its inception has been severely at the disadvantage in terms of the size of its military, land mass and available manpower against its much larger next door rival, India. To counter that disadvantage we have survived this long by just sheer aggression, firepower and preemptive strikes into enemy's territories. Countless Great Men have sacrificed their lives to attack indian military infrastructure within hostile territory to blunt their attack and fought valiantly to defend their homeland and people.

Present Situation:
For past few decades Pakistan has been in major geographical and demographical dilemma. Most of our major population centers, major cities, vital civilian and military infrastructure is very close to the eastern border and under ever increasing danger of being wiped out due to proliferation of advanced missiles, land and air launched stand off precision guided weapons in the region for the past few decades.

The balance of military size, population and landmass depth would already be massively in India's favor and there isn't much left for us to afford to loose nor we would have the space to make any mistake in any calculations or commit blunders. Militaries around the globe are kept and paid to defend and fight.

If we wish to ever win against that huge enemy then we would have to take out 10 of their civilians for each of our civilian casualty and 7 of their soldiers against each of our soldier get martyred to shift that huge imbalance to somewhat in our favor. Similar conditions applies to equipment and infrastructure losses. That's why aggression is a compulsion to survive. That's why we had to do nuclear tests in response and recently destroy their trees in response to the loss of our trees . And developed full spectrum nuclear deterrence including tactical Nuclear missiles. We don't have any effective reserves or vast landmass to maneuver and keep retreating to. All of our force is committed at or very near the front lines.

Pakistan has many fault lines and vulnerabilities due to the aforementioned reasons. And if India ever manages to inflict damage at massive scale or incursions slightly deep into our territory then there would be no point of return for Pakistan. The balance of power would shift further more towards India. If India manages to do China cuttings within Pakistan's territory then a domino effect would ensue further and it won't stop anytime soon. They wouldn't have to attack your beloved concrete of Port or its adjacent factory or a road leading to it. It would be game over by then. Conventional militaries aren't that much efficient in fighting like resistance guerilla war style and guerilla warfare is an insult and disgrace by itself. Massive losses in men, equipment and/or land witout being able to inflict damage at least half a dozen times more in return then its already game over. Wars dont tend to last long in this part of the continent.

And after all this if you somehow mange to survive and gain control of couple of towns in Rajhistan desert. It won't be that much of intrinsic value to trade them with far more better territories of Punjab in post war negotiations.

And that concludes my last post in response. Hope sanity prevails.

Our vulnerability of having the majority of our population within 100 miles of the indian border can also be a very big benefit in war mobilization. We will be able to mobilize far more men/equipment to the front lines than the Indians can. just look at Indias population density/ its highway/rail network. It will take them far longer to get the same number of troops/equipment to their border compared to Pakistan.

Also in previous wars the fact that major cities such as Lahore/Sialkot were on the front lines motivated the whole nation to fight even more. Compared to the indians who were dreaming about chai in lahore.

In the next indo-pak conflict you can bet major indian cities such as Delhi, Mumbai, and even Bangalore will be struck hard ie major military bases and infrastructure.

 

[DJ_Viper]

In 5-10 years, such systems will use AI technology.

This is already in place and the older active radar missiles / ABM's, are getting updated to counter hypersonic weapons using AI.

For Pakistan, I keep saying, it's imperative that it build's under ToT it's own BVR and SAM weapons. SD-10 and HQ-9 should be great examples to start from and mass produce later, along with specializing in a new military capability and growing expertise in it.

 

[iby32]

Finally a good news to hear that some long range AD capabilities

 

[waz]

Don't you think Hq 9 p is enough now.PAF still needs any long range defence system???

The PAF as brother @iLION12345_1 stated needs long range systems for their own use. The SPADA as shown here;

is under PAF control.
Of course the core objective of defending Pakistan is central to all but the PAF will view the defence of Pakistan's skies differently.

 

[Proud 2 Be a Pakistani]

Variant	Modifications
HQ-9A	Improved electronic equipment and software provide the 9A with higher accuracy and probability of kill
HQ-9B	Longer 300 km range; an additional seeker provides semi-active radar homing and infrared homing modes
HQ-9C	Currently in development; incorporates fully active radar homing
HHQ-9	Naval variant identical to HQ-9; launched from VLS tubes in Lanzhou class destroyers
HHQ-9A	Naval variant identical to HQ-9A
FD-2000	Identical to the original HQ-9, but designed for export with minor electronic improvements
FT-2000	Anti-radiation system; a range of up to 100 km

 

[Aesterix]

Instead of assuming that the Pakistans HQ-9P is the most rubbish relic from Chinese scrapyard of missiles, I rather assume its the BE version.
And in that case the entire Prithvi series of missiles which were specifically made with Pakistan in mind, is now thing of the past.

 

[Neurath]

There's a debate going on the sidelines of the HQ-9 induction regarding air defence in Karachi and Lahore. Team Lahore has gone a bit sentimental talking about the cultural and historical significance of Lahore and it being a population hub, basically all of the things that don't matter in air defence.

First, let's analyze what air defence is primarily used to defend:
- Airbases
- Defence Production Facilities
- Cantonments
- Strategic Infrastructure
- Arms Depots
- Nuclear facilities.

Now, let's do the required comparison.

Lahore

IV Corps HQ
Lahore Cantt
Allama Iqbal International Airport
Karachi-Peshawar Railway Line
Major Locomotive Works

Karachi

V Corps HQ
Karachi Cantt
Malir Cantt
Jinnah International Airport
PAF Base Malir
PAF Base Korangi Creek
PAF Airbase Faisal (Karachi's airbases are tasked with defence of Southern Sindh)
PAF Airbase Masroor (All of PAF's Naval Squadrons)
PAF Airbase Bholari (close proximity)
Port of Karachi
Port of Bin Qasim
Petroleum Facilities at Port Bin Qasim
Beginning Point of Karachi-Peshawar Railway Line
Karachi Shipyard And Engineering Works
PN Facilities at Manora
Navy Dockyards (Primary Naval Base, a little searching on Google Maps would make clear its importance)
Kanupp II and III
Major installations related to our jawab if India goes naughty

I understand that the Karachi-Lahore rivalry will never die, but please leave your petty sympathies and politics at home when discussing defense. O7.


Sidenote:
All areas of Pakistan deserve to be defended equally . This post was just a comparison to make clear priorities.

 

[iLION12345_1]

It’s funny how insignificant this debate of cities is considering they’re going to be covering everything equally…but y’know…have at it.

 

[Neurath]

It’s funny how insignificant this debate of cities is considering they’re going to be covering everything equally…but y’know…have at it.

Like someone else previously said, just adding to the spice

 

[DJ_Viper]

Variant	Modifications
HQ-9A	Improved electronic equipment and software provide the 9A with higher accuracy and probability of kill
HQ-9B	Longer 300 km range; an additional seeker provides semi-active radar homing and infrared homing modes
HQ-9C	Currently in development; incorporates fully active radar homing
HHQ-9	Naval variant identical to HQ-9; launched from VLS tubes in Lanzhou class destroyers
HHQ-9A	Naval variant identical to HQ-9A
FD-2000	Identical to the original HQ-9, but designed for export with minor electronic improvements
FT-2000	Anti-radiation system; a range of up to 100 km

View attachment 785782

Did Pakistan get HQ9A? There should be ToT and mass production of a capable SAM and a couple of BVR missiles.

 

[Aesterix]

Did Pakistan get HQ9A? There should be ToT and mass production of a capable SAM and a couple of BVR missiles.

It must be an export version, not something from Chinese scrapyard.
HQ-9BE is the current export version, FD-2000 was in 2007.

 

[waz]

I think we can settle that this is the HQ-9BE, it wouldn't be anything else really.