Pakistan Navy will get 4 more F-22Ps

[Penguin]

There is no way that F22P can be 'modified' to be more 'like' 054A.

054/054A has 4 diesel engines while 053/F22P has only two. That's why F22P is only half the size of 054A. F22P is too small for VLS (HHQ-16).

HHQ16 is the first Hot Load VLS air-defense missile employed in the PLAN. As is shown in the image above, it has a 32 unit system for 054A while HHQ7 has only 6 or 8 units. The VLS on 054A has also been reported to be compatible with anti-submarine rockets/missiles recently.

Like the Type 053H3, the F22P reportedly has a CODAD (Combined Diesel and Diesel) propulsion plant. This comprises 2 × Tognum MTU 12V 1163 TB 83 @ 10.5MW, and 2 MTU cruise diesels @ 6.6MW of the F22P rather than the Jiang-Wei's 2 x 18E390VA diesel @ 14,000 hp (17.6 kW) & 2x MTU diesel @ 8,840 hp (6.5 kW)
Sword / F-22P Class Frigates - Naval Technology
F-22P Zulfiquar class frigate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Type 053H3 frigate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You cannot turn F22P into 054a, clearly. But you can adopt same or similar systems e.g. CIWS, Radars etc.

There is no reason to a priorily assume a modified F22P could not mount 2 VLUs (rather than 4 as on 054A): put them crosswise behind eachother rather than lengthwise side by side to minimize width (since F22P is narrower than 054A) and - if necessary - lengthen the hull slightly (insert a hull plug of a couple of meters immediately forward of the bridge). Consider:
- the 054A VLU 'farm' comprises 4 VLUs with 8 cells each, which I expect are dimensionally similar to Mk41. Like Mk41, I expect the 'farm' to be scalable (1, 2, 4, 6 VLUs grouped to get 8, 16, 32, 48 cells). Which mean you could choose to go down from 32 cells on 054A to 16 cells on modF22P
- As you may well know Mk41 VLU comes in 3 different lengths. I expect the Chinese VLU to be equivalent in length to the middle one (tactical, not ESSM tailored 'self defence' and not Tomahawk tailored 'strike' length), which is tailored to ASROC and SM2. SM2 and Buk/HHQ16 being roughly similar in dimensions.
- That Chinese VLU is not much wider (if at all) than the complete HQ7 deck launcher (width: 4 launch canisters + 2 arms)
-Seeing that MEKO 200s can mount 2 Mk41s 'self defence' in the same container as e.g. a 76mm or 127mm cannon, I think it would fit as far as deck space forward of the bridge and behind the main gun is concerned. The only real issue may be whether the hull has sufficient depth to accommodate the length of the launcher (vertically), as this depends on the hullform below the waterline.

VL ASROC RUM-139 Warshot - 192.6 x 16.6 in (485 x 42.2 cm), 1,407 lbs. (633.15 kg)
SM-2 MR RIM-66C, RIM-156 - 175 x 13.5 in (445 x 34 cm), 1,380 lbs. (621 kg)

Shtil Length 5.55 m x Diameter 0.4 m,
(SA-N-7) 9М38 690 kg
(SA-N-12) 9M317ME 581 kg

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ship/weaps/mk-41-vls.htm

 

[Penguin]

Ongoing joint Sino-Pak naval projects include the local construction of PNS Aslat, a 123-meter, 3500-ton F-22P frigate at KS&EW, four more frigates to an improved F-22P design, and significantly, procurement of Chinese-origin submarines, including one or more nuclear-powered submarines.

New Fast Attack Craft Commissioned for Pakistani Navy | Defense Media Network

 

[regular]

forget it PN is not getting any subs till the end of 2020. hell we haven't even signed a MoU for such a deal. subs are a history. let's just hope for some frigates currently.

This means that our Naval defence system has been compromised by the Western agents within our ruling elites.......

 

[Nishan_101]

I am hopeful that PN will going to produce 7 of these with VLS launching of missiles along with other stealth features as well along with 7 FACs.

 

[conan008]

 

[rishisankaran]

This means that our Naval defence system has been compromised by the Western agents within our ruling elites.......

Sorry to say this but Western countries hardly view Pakistan as a growing Naval Power. Its not appropriate to bring in the term "western" for failing to sign contracts at the right time. The so called western agents among your ruling elites are not sowed nor cultivated by the western countries, its their own greed which has put Pakistan's Navy in this position.

Don't get me wrong I'm not trying to take a dig at you nor all the Pakistani friends but just stating the reality. We have our own share of corrupt politicians too.

 

[araz]

I have no issue with PN going for more F22p if these one would be fitted with a better SAM like HQ-16.

I personally feel these won't be the same F22p's in fact they would be something bigger but would be based on present F22p frigate. Something around 4000 tons displacement. As our former CNS said.



Pak China cooperation in building submarines, bigger ships war identified: Admiral Noman | The Nation

I think as the chinese tech matures, the SAM component may well be upgraded. The need of the hour are the platforms which PN has been very short of. The OHPs may or may not come and Tariq(type 21s) class are well past their best and need to be retired.
What Changes PN makes to F22p is something that needs to be seen. However, one needs to learn to walk before one can run. So I strongly suspect the changes if any would be minimal and saved for a later date. However for a bigger platform we need to lease the 054s till we can stand on our own feet. It is detrimental for us to keep[ buying , and the most economical way for us would be to get the tech and designs, start building first and as we get comfortable with the process and have a more established infrastructure, we can make minor design changes at a later date. That is my thinking .
Araz

 

[jalip]

other then VLS missiles I cant see any different between type 54 and f22p . if Pakistan is going for bigger ships must consider ship with land attack cruise missile and VLS orr trade of between two. If they can acquire submarine with cruise missile launch then onl VLS will suffice. Submarine should be be main weapon for pakistan as small number will make enemy guessing. if they threat you seaport you must find a way to threat their ports in a efficient way.

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

Like the Type 053H3, the F22P reportedly has a CODAD (Combined Diesel and Diesel) propulsion plant. This comprises 2 × Tognum MTU 12V 1163 TB 83 @ 10.5MW, and 2 MTU cruise diesels @ 6.6MW of the F22P rather than the Jiang-Wei's 2 x 18E390VA diesel @ 14,000 hp (17.6 kW) & 2x MTU diesel @ 8,840 hp (6.5 kW)
Sword / F-22P Class Frigates - Naval Technology
F-22P Zulfiquar class frigate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Type 053H3 frigate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You cannot turn F22P into 054a, clearly. But you can adopt same or similar systems e.g. CIWS, Radars etc.

There is no reason to a priorily assume a modified F22P could not mount 2 VLUs (rather than 4 as on 054A): put them crosswise behind eachother rather than lengthwise side by side to minimize width (since F22P is narrower than 054A) and - if necessary - lengthen the hull slightly (insert a hull plug of a couple of meters immediately forward of the bridge). Consider:
- the 054A VLU 'farm' comprises 4 VLUs with 8 cells each, which I expect are dimensionally similar to Mk41. Like Mk41, I expect the 'farm' to be scalable (1, 2, 4, 6 VLUs grouped to get 8, 16, 32, 48 cells). Which mean you could choose to go down from 32 cells on 054A to 16 cells on modF22P
- As you may well know Mk41 VLU comes in 3 different lengths. I expect the Chinese VLU to be equivalent in length to the middle one (tactical, not ESSM tailored 'self defence' and not Tomahawk tailored 'strike' length), which is tailored to ASROC and SM2. SM2 and Buk/HHQ16 being roughly similar in dimensions.
- That Chinese VLU is not much wider (if at all) than the complete HQ7 deck launcher (width: 4 launch canisters + 2 arms)
-Seeing that MEKO 200s can mount 2 Mk41s 'self defence' in the same container as e.g. a 76mm or 127mm cannon, I think it would fit as far as deck space forward of the bridge and behind the main gun is concerned. The only real issue may be whether the hull has sufficient depth to accommodate the length of the launcher (vertically), as this depends on the hullform below the waterline.

VL ASROC RUM-139 Warshot - 192.6 x 16.6 in (485 x 42.2 cm), 1,407 lbs. (633.15 kg)
SM-2 MR RIM-66C, RIM-156 - 175 x 13.5 in (445 x 34 cm), 1,380 lbs. (621 kg)

Shtil Length 5.55 m x Diameter 0.4 m,
(SA-N-7) 9М38 690 kg
(SA-N-12) 9M317ME 581 kg

MK 41 Vertical Launching System (VLS)

What about the radar,sensors and operating space required to use these SAMS won't it take large spaces?
Otherwise i think all navies would operate smaller ships and mount sams on them.

 

[Arsalan]

This news is not being confirmed by any official channel/source so i wont start celebratin just as yet as there are good chances this may also end up just like the U214, QING class submarines!
i dont expect any good news comming in PPP regime!

so will keep my thoughts to myself!

however on technical terms, for all those who are discussing the pros and cons of this deal, i will like to add that this, if ever heppens will indeed be a big boost for PN. it will be good to have 8 new modren frigates operational supported by FAC and Subs!

@ Penguin, thank for all your informative posts, was indeed a pleasure seeing you appreciating the F-22p!

best regards!

 

[Penguin]

What about the radar,sensors and operating space required to use these SAMS won't it take large spaces?
Otherwise i think all navies would operate smaller ships and mount sams on them.

Max missile range for the missile discussed is about 25-50km. It is not necessarily the case that you would require different long range sensors (e.g. installation of Fregat MAE2 or M2EM). This would minimize the modificatinos relative to original F22P.
You do need illuminators for the VL SAM if it is SARH (directors if it is CLOS) e.g. 2-4 Orekh type (Shtil) or Thales Stir (ESSM/SM2). This I included in the above proposal. IIRH or ARH missiles would not need these (lock on before launch > fire and forget).

If you shoe horn in a single Mk41 VLU with 8 cells, you could give her 32 ESSM (quadpacked). See Australian Meko's and mod-OHP. Coupled with 2 Stir for missile direction. Or 2x Mk56 with 6 cells each > 24 ESSM (twin packed). See Danish navy ships.

 

[fatman17]

i will take this Geo news with a grain of salt.

 

[truthseeker2010]

I agree with you 100% that the PN should have done much better by doing a JV with French, British or Germans on Frigates, Corvettes and Missile boats in 1980 when we were in good condition along with the building of the 3rd Shipyard at Karachi. And going for :
11 Frigates
7 Corvettes
16+ Missile Boats
with different Blocks.



You are absolutetly wrong!!!
PN has and open requirement of about 16+ to 21 SSKs with AIPs.

Are you high? it would be Indian Navy's requirement, not Pakistan Navy's

 

[regular]

This news is not being confirmed by any official channel/source so i wont start celebratin just as yet as there are good chances this may also end up just like the U214, QING class submarines!
i dont expect any good news comming in PPP regime!
so will keep my thoughts to myself!

I absolutely agree with U!...
Cuz Looking at the history and the achievements of this western backed corrupt govt. imposed on us I guess the title of the thread shold be "Pakistan will not get 4 more F-22ps ". This Govt. is just trying to fool the PN as well as our public.But if the current govt signs this contract that would be miracle for the country....

 

[Penguin]

Chinese play key role in Pakistan’s new naval projects

Underscoring the growing relationship between Pakistan and China in the field of naval shipbuilding are two significant projects involving technology transfer from China Shipbuilding & Trading Company (CSTC)/China Shipbuilding & Offshore International Co Ltd (CSOC) to Karachi Shipbuilding & Engineering Works (KS&EW).

Read about it in: Warship Technology May 2012 (Royal Institute of Naval Architects publication)

[F22P] While the combat systems are almost wholly of Chinese origin, crucially, the sonar system is an Atlas Elektronik ASO-94 system.

It is expected that another batch of four follow-on frigates will be ordered in due course. Indications from Pakistan navy officials suggest that these are likely to use the same hullform as the F22P but with improvements to machinery systems as well as combat systems such as vertically launched missiles