Pakistan Navy upgrading type zulfiquar class frigate

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

no, GWS would be the ideal option, its entire role is for space-limited applications, its far more compact than anything else on the market, maybe barring my baby the ExLS, so the same VLS as the Babur.

Sorry to sh*t on you guys' parade, however im thinking the HQ-10 is the most realistic route for an upgrade for this platform, unless the navy is really going all out, but i question that.


But thats just my opinion.

You'd be right about the HQ-10, but the PN hasn't latched onto PDMS yet, despite having the opportunity.

 

[Akh1112]

You'd be right about the HQ-10, but the PN hasn't latched onto PDMS yet, despite having the opportunity.

if you're skeptical WRT my GWS26 point, it is designed around CAMM and only has enough space for ER, that will max out the cell, its designed with a specific purpose, it also saves space since well, its cold launch, unlike all of the other options, its the most compact system there is i think, though, we could argue more missiles can be fitted into sylver etc, however its alot larger, heavier and costlier, but thats up to PN decision makers

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

if you're skeptical WRT my GWS26 point, it is designed around CAMM and only has enough space for ER, that will max out the cell, its designed with a specific purpose, it also saves space since well, its cold launch, unlike all of the other options, its the most compact system there is i think, though, we could argue more missiles can be fitted into sylver etc, however its alot larger, heavier and costlier, but thats up to PN decision makers

No I was referring to the HQ-10 part. I think the GWS26 thing is on point though.

 

[Dreamer.]

no, GWS would be the ideal option, its entire role is for space-limited applications, its far more compact than anything else on the market, maybe barring my baby the ExLS, so the same VLS as the Babur.

if you're skeptical WRT my GWS26 point, it is designed around CAMM and only has enough space for ER, that will max out the cell, its designed with a specific purpose, it also saves space since well, its cold launch, unlike all of the other options, its the most compact system there is i think, though, we could argue more missiles can be fitted into sylver etc, however its alot larger, heavier and costlier, but thats up to PN decision makers

I'm a little confused here. If the VLS on the Babur class is designed to save space and is the most compact one around than why does the number of vls cells on babur class keep going down? Rather than go up? First it was 16, then only 12?
Whereas going by the empty space on the deck we could maybe fit even more than 16? What's going on here?

 

[Tornado23]

no, GWS would be the ideal option, its entire role is for space-limited applications, its far more compact than anything else on the market, maybe barring my baby the ExLS, so the same VLS as the Babur.

Sorry to sh*t on you guys' parade, however im thinking the HQ-10 is the most realistic route for an upgrade for this platform, unless the navy is really going all out, but i question that.


But thats just my opinion.

I'm a little confused here. If the VLS on the Babur class is designed to save space and is the most compact one around than why does the number of vls cells on babur class keep going down? Rather than go up? First it was 16, then only 12?
Whereas going by the empty space on the deck we could maybe fit even more than 16? What's going on here?

Cost, logistics, practicality etc

 

[Battlion25]

View attachment 795912

The Pakistani Navy is modernizing Zulfiquar-class frigates by installing new electronic warfare systems and satellite communications.

Are they rebuilding it from beginning by removing alot of just instill the electronic warfare systems

 

[HRK]

If the VLS on the Babur class is designed to save space and is the most compact one around than why does the number of vls cells on babur class keep going down? Rather than go up?

Because VLS shown with the first model of Babur class SAM missile system was Chinese as at that time HQ-16 was expected to be the SAM system for babur class, contract for CAMM-ER was not announced till that time.

CAMM-ER is believed to have less footprint then ship based HQ-16 therefore on overall basis it save more space on ship as compared to HQ-16 not just at VLS section.

 

[Dreamer.]

Because VLS shown in the first model of Babur class missile was Chinese as it was at that time HQ-16 was expected to be the SAM system for babur class, contract for CAMM-ER was not announced till that time.

I am aware of that but the point was that with the change to western vls, number of cells should not have gone down unless the new vls takes MORE space, rather than LESS.

CAMM-ER is believed to have less footprint then ship based HQ-16 therefore on overall basis it save more space on ship as compared to HQ-16 not just at VLS section.

Can you expand on that please? Do you mean it takes more space in vls section but less on ship overall? How is that?

 

[HRK]

Can you expand on that please? Do you mean it takes more space in vls section but less on ship overall? How is that?

HQ-16 being semi active SAM need seperate radar for guidance and and more human resource as well as comparatively bulky command and control arrangements, CAMM-ER required less resource, space and weight less than HQ-16 so overall it has advantage of
- Technology (Semi Active Vs. Active Guidance)
- Smaller footprint
- Lighter in Weight , therefore less stressful on Ship structure

just as an example plz see the below attached pic

On the left side The Command and Control cabinets Sea Ceptor is shown installed in HMS Westminster

You can observe it is occupying very less space, further plz read this article [click here] about Sea Ceptor it has give some detail about the system installed on UK ships which were using Seawolf SAM missiles earlier.

Over all this the maximum footprint of Sea ceptor SAM

 

[Akh1112]

I am aware of that but the point was that with the change to western vls, number of cells should not have gone down unless the new vls takes MORE space, rather than LESS.

Can you expand on that please? Do you mean it takes more space in vls section but less on ship overall? How is that?

realistically, we don’t know what’s going on below deck. They moved the original VLS from the centre to then have 2x6 arrangement on the sides of the deck. Theoretically yes, they could have fit more missiles, practically, we don’t know, again, I’m unsure what’s going on below the deck. Though if you’re really curious I’m good friends with the executive officer on one of the Ada class ships in use by the TN

 

[Dreamer.]

realistically, we don’t know what’s going on below deck. They moved the original VLS from the centre to then have 2x6 arrangement on the sides of the deck. Theoretically yes, they could have fit more missiles, practically, we don’t know, again, I’m unsure what’s going on below the deck. Though if you’re really curious I’m good friends with the executive officer on one of the Ada class ships in use by the TN

And those don't even have a vls...

I guess only PN knows the real reason, we might find out someday. I'm still ok with babur's vls as it wasn't even supposed to have it originally. I am more concerned with the Jinnah class, it should have more than 16, 24 at least. I hope that final design of Jinnah class is more advanced.

 

[Akh1112]

And those don't even have a vls...

I guess only PN knows the real reason, we might find out someday. I'm still ok with babur's vls as it wasn't even supposed to have it originally. I am more concerned with the Jinnah class, it should have more than 16, 24 at least. I hope that final design of Jinnah class is more advanced.

everyone missed out some important stuff wrt that design shown lol, something along the lines of this 'its not final, one of multiple designs, its likely to change'. Depending on timelines, we could see even turkish sams onboard, who knows. Best case scenario are these;

MK41/SYLVER for quadpack CAMM-ER
whatever the turks come out with
HT-1E with FM-3000N/HHQ-9 combo perhaps?(unlikely?)
dark horse option- domestic SAM, i think @Bilal Khan (Quwa) mentioned some SAM prog before

 

[Dreamer.]

everyone missed out some important stuff wrt that design shown lol, something along the lines of this 'its not final, one of multiple designs, its likely to change'. Depending on timelines, we could see even turkish sams onboard, who knows. Best case scenario are these;

MK41/SYLVER for quadpack CAMM-ER
whatever the turks come out with
HT-1E with FM-3000N/HHQ-9 combo perhaps?(unlikely?)
dark horse option- domestic SAM, i think @Bilal Khan (Quwa) mentioned some SAM prog before

No I didn't miss that part, that's why I said I hope the final design is more advanced. Not just in SAM part but in other areas too, hopefully.

 

[Super Falcon]

lz remove those Fm 90 sams look ugly

 

[JawadKKhan]

Hi everyone,

Maybe little off-topic but this question is puzzling me about F-22P frigates. (I already asked same question about agosta subs in other thread). Question is did PN really utilized ToT package for F-22Ps. As, I assume that ToT comes with huge additional costs and complete transfer of technology so that country can build more ships on its own. Why we didn't made more of these when we badly needed to retire totally obsolete type 21s. With no full utilization of previous ToT packages, is there any hope for future ToTs as in Babur / hangor etc?

Thanks in advance for some insights!