Pakistan navy post 2020 - Future Plans

[araz]

I still fail to understand what your point is?

Wasting everyone's time is what he is doing. He talks about living in reality but does not understand that both China and Turkey have followed the same methodilogies of buying licences for tech from abroad and then initiating research to develop it incrementally. If we look at the Chinese developmental cycles it has been the same and till mid to late 90s it could not design a fighter plane. The J10 has genes from Lavi and the JFT from mig 33 programme.
The issues are the same for Turkey but they are at different points in their development cycles. But if he wants to live in his own realm of reality he should be shown that realm preferably out of this thread.
Mods can I please ask you to look at this thread.
A

 

[SBUS-CXK]

Wasting everyone's time is what he is doing. He talks about living in reality but does not understand that both China and Turkey have followed the same methodilogies of buying licences for tech from abroad and then initiating research to develop it incrementally. If we look at the Chinese developmental cycles it has been the same and till mid to late 90s it could not design a fighter plane. The J10 has genes from Lavi and the JFT from mig 33 programme.
The issues are the same for Turkey but they are at different points in their development cycles. But if he wants to live in his own realm of reality he should be shown that realm preferably out of this thread.
Mods can I please ask you to look at this thread.
A

friend. I don't remember how we "discussed the J-10 model" so "enthusiastically" in the 1990s.

and, I don't remember we were obsessed with some fantasy.

The J-10 comes from the J-9.

 

[SBUS-CXK]

Why do we face reality?

As a country, you should clearly understand your own strength. And learn more about the world. Then find the gap. so you have a reasonable plan, and then correct implementation.

China also had many plans in the 1960-80s. Such as Y-10 (large transport aircraft), J-9 (3th generation fighter), type 055 （yes, it is now type 055 predecessor）. but China was eventually forced to give up (or postpone) for various reasons. capital, industrial level, materials technology, engines, etc. I guess the Chinese at that time must be very distressed and sad. they really want to succeed. It's just that reality makes them despair (if I was in that era, I would cry). but their efforts and explorations are great.

As a country. when you really complete a plan. you will find how scary this gap is. think about it. when I completed the first aircraft carrier. Another person already owns 10 aircraft carriers. How long is my road....

this is reality，very scary. but we must face it. Because it keeps us awake enough. let us know how long this road is.

now you just stand at the starting point.

 

[cabatli_53]

What Air Defence system will Turkish Destroyer have? What will the its expected maximum range?

The longest range surface to air missile to be revealed by 2022/23 will be the “Siper” missile. Navy and Land Forces are excitedly waiting this missile and MIDAS VL launchers to be integrated on I class frigates most likely won’t be able to fire this missiles cause of dimension reasons. MIDAS on I class frigates will fit on Hisar-A, O, O+ and G-40 missiles. Further variants of MIDAS will be larger/longer which is going to fit on destroyer’s hull to fire Siper missiles. Siper will have a range around 120km and altitude of ~25km. Tübitak/Aselsan/Roketsan collaboration will reveal some details about Siper in this year.

Main early warning radar called EIRS will be delivered at the end of this year. This radar will be the main search radar of SIPER.

Futhermore, This radar will be the biggest non-rotating radar of ÇAFRAD naval radar complex (4 EIRS on Tf-2000) to be integrated on TF-2000 destroyers. UMR is the name of naval version of EIRS radar.

 

[araz]

friend. I don't remember how we "discussed the J-10 model" so "enthusiastically" in the 1990s.

and, I don't remember we were obsessed with some fantasy.

The J-10 comes from the J-9.

I know exactly where it comes from. The whole world knows barring people who have their heads dug deep into the sand. However Stop trying to act like Confucius and either let us know directly what your point is or keep calm and watch the debate. I also happen to know how technologies transform so no need to act smart with me.
Regards

 

[cabatli_53]

As a country. when you really complete a plan. you will find how scary this gap is. think about it. when I completed the first aircraft carrier. Another person already owns 10 aircraft carriers.

The tech gap you mentioned above is something like; For exm, You have reached a level to introduce an air to air missile having a range up to 30km after revealed many different products in previous years but, a new player has appeared with carrying out advanced R&D studies to produce a similar AAM with a range of 30km and they have succeeded. This new player had revealed many different state of art missile systems before but related AAM became their first product in this field. In this situation, What is the extend of technological gap between these two state in AAM technology field ?

 

[SBUS-CXK]

The tech gap you mentioned above is something like; For exm, You have reached a level to introduce an air to air missile having a range up to 30km after revealed many different products in previous years but, a new player has appeared with carrying out advanced R&D studies to produce a similar AAM with a range of 30km and they have succeeded. This new player had revealed many different state of art missile systems before but related AAM became their first product in this field. In this situation, What is the extend of technological gap between these two state in AAM technology field ?

you are just comparing the gap between weapons...... in the 1991 Gulf War. the gap between T72 and M1-A1 is not large （(Battle of 73 Easting is due to geographical factors)）. But the US has AH-64, and F117, and B-52, and absolute air dominance. tell me-can T-72 win AH-64? Iraq wants the US to engage in ground war with it. but, Please - why the US should be a ground war with Iraq? if Iraq is a two-dimensional world (land and sky). US is a four-dimensional world (land, sky, ocean, and outer space). So, why the US should comply with Iraq's tactics?

Different dimensional of the world. do you think our gap is just a weapon? and you said China's air-to-air missiles. it was just one of China's export products. just for export.

what? do you talk to me about AAM? why don't we discuss ICBM, submarine-launched ballistic missiles, air-to-surface missiles, and cruise missiles...? ? shall we discuss Saudi DF-3? when do you think you can make it?

 

[LKJ86]

China was the partner of Lavi program in 80s

Are you seriously?

 

[Ultima Thule]

Are you seriously?

Yes i am serious, you're unofficial partner in Israeli program

 

[LKJ86]

Yes i am serious, you're unofficial partner in Israeli program

Can you provide the sources?

 

[cabatli_53]

you are just comparing the gap between weapons...... in the 1991 Gulf War. the gap between T72 and M1-A1 is not large （(Battle of 73 Easting is due to geographical factors)）. But the US has AH-64, and F117, and B-52, and absolute air dominance. tell me-can T-72 win AH-64? Iraq wants the US to engage in ground war with it. but, Please - why the US should be a ground war with Iraq? if Iraq is a two-dimensional world (land and sky). US is a four-dimensional world (land, sky, ocean, and outer space). So, why the US should comply with Iraq's tactics?

Different dimensional of the world. do you think our gap is just a weapon? and you said China's air-to-air missiles. it was just one of China's export products. just for export.

what? do you talk to me about AAM? why don't we discuss ICBM, submarine-launched ballistic missiles, air-to-surface missiles, and cruise missiles...? ? shall we discuss Saudi DF-3? when do you think you can make it?

It seems you didn’t like my example so couldn’t find a proper response. Your real problem is that; you see yourself flying above the clouds with forming arrogant sentences, while approaching anybody out of yourself with an underestimating mindset with showing some specific examples China made great progress. When somebody introduced somerhing which make you think like “How can a country like X developing something similar to what “mighty” China has met difficulty to produce”, You need to interfere the discussion and latet converting discussion with asking “How can you compare mighty China” as if somebody quoted you or mentioned about yourself and so you start to give your opponents some tech lecture as if you have any idea what you are talking. Have you ever asked yourself Why do Turkey need an intercontinental ballistic missiles ? Just waste of money, time and resources. Turkey has envisaged a roadway to develop missiles up to 2500km range and I am sorry but You couldn’t see them until Turkish authority gave permission since they are classified programs. I know You want some pissing contest to feel better but I would rather reminding your lacking part in your logic.

 

[LKJ86]

The J10 has genes from Lavi

Why not mention Yugoslavia's Novi Avion, and it looks more like J-10:

 

[LKJ86]

last LAVI were intended to used modified US aero engine

In 1983, WP-15 turbojet engine was chose for the winner between CAC' J-10 and SAC's J-13.

 

[Ultima Thule]

The new J-9 design had air intakes on the fuselage sides featuring variable inlet geometry to alter the compression mixture. It used a Chinese-designed Shenyang WS-6 turbofan engine with 12,400 kgf (27,000 lbf) afterburningthrust, and featured a Type 205 radar (with a search range of about 70 km) and four PL-4 radar-guided air-to-air missiles. The J-9 plan was discontinued in 1980, but the J-9 development enabled Chinese engineers to gain experience with the canard layout type, experience that would prove useful in the J-10 project.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chengdu_J-9

@seven0seven What do you think Israel wants?? WS-6? Or type 205? Or PL-4?

Oh god, stop trolling WS-6 was dead project along with J-9, they had have better radar than your Type 205 which you didn't make, and PL-4 has the same fate, did PL-4 has reliability better then AIM-7/AIM-9, you're reported for trolling and derailing the thread

 

[LKJ86]

then you went to join LAVI project and Israeli didn't want your imaginary WS-6 technology, They had have access better/matured US engine tech