Pakistan navy post 2020 - Future Plans

[Tank131]

Sorry, I don't discuss politics. I only look at reality（only discuss reality）.

my question is simple. Turkish frigate had VLS? you know HQ16 is a very mature weapon. It is generally equipped with type 054, type 052c, type 052d, and type 055. do we really need to develop VLS for small frigates?—— OK. Now China agrees to equip the HQ16 to the Turkish frigate (I strongly support it). but where is the VLS of the Turkish frigate? or is it just PPT?

We should ask Turkish friends. when can i see your VLS? or let China help Turkish frigates develop VLS?

bro. they cut steel plates from 2019. so when can we see the Turkish frigate VLS? When was HQ16 installed on a Turkish frigate? This should ask Turkey.

I think i see the issue here. Turkish variant does not have VLS and you are asking where/why is China going to fit a vls into MILGEM as Turkey currently has it. Is that accurate?

The issue is supposedly solved. Turkey has already put out a scale model showing the ship is elongated by 10m with additional space between the main gun and bridge which has space for 2 8-cell vls. The space is already there in the modified variant being built for PN (it is essentially a modified MILGEM which puts it between ADA and MILGEM-G/MILGEM2 in size). Now whether the VLS unit itself is from China or not and whether the HQ-16 equips it is only going to be seen in the future, but the designs revealed by Turkey clearly show 2 VLS units for a total of 16 cells.

Jinnah Class model showing 16 VLS cells up front, and Gokdeniz CIWS in rear (personally would prefer Pantsir-M or Type 1130 with 6 HQ-10). They are marked with Pakistani flags indicating.

Vs

MILGEM/ADA class corvette with no VLS, and a 21 cell RAM launcher in the rear instead of the Gokdeniz CIWS found on the Jinnah class.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

We should order 4 more , since the ship seems to be a good fit for our needs
Why delay in a good project ?

3 Ships made overseas , would be built with nice pace and we can fix up the local yard to build 1 model for TOT

The Size and capabilities are greater then Azmat class which is a fast attack ship

Small boat launcher at back is a nice design together with housing a anti-submarine hunter helicopter

4 More ships would be an ideal fit


For us the Milgem Project / Damen ship project were done almost same time but the Damen ships are already finished

I think the Milgem project was finalized a bit , tiny bit later

Damen were pretty much a dark horse to win the bid , considering how hard they worked to get it launched so quickly


4th Azmat Shipt : Took Pakistan 3 to 3.5 years to make 1 small missile boat
2 Damen Ships : Took Damen , 1.5 years to make
4 Milgem Ships : Need 60 Months to complete


Cost for 1 ship is same as the amount of money paid for JUI-F Diesal , bill for Lasi annually

 

[cabatli_53]

Sorry, I don't discuss politics. I only look at reality（only discuss reality）.

my question is simple. Turkish frigate had VLS? you know HQ16 is a very mature weapon. It is generally equipped with type 054, type 052c, type 052d, and type 055. do we really need to develop VLS for small frigates?—— OK. Now China agrees to equip the HQ16 to the Turkish frigate (I strongly support it). but where is the VLS of the Turkish frigate? or is it just PPT?

We should ask Turkish friends. when can i see your VLS? or let China help Turkish frigates develop VLS?

It is not help my friend but trade. Noone ask you to help for construction of VLS or missiles but to sell missiles in exchange of money. There are other alternatives If you refuse Pakistani request. Otherwise, Do not suppose any Chinese technicians will be allowed to approach the combat management system of ship while integration activities of your missiles are being carried out.

Turkish MIDAS VLS is in trials

G-40 is being developed for the request of Navy. This naval missile will be the direct competitor of CAMM and ESSM-2. It is expected that we will see first launching in a short time.

• Cold launch
• Active radar seeker (used on Gökdoğan BVR missile) + datalink
• The range more than 40km
• Quad-packing capability, smaller size with folded wings.

Tübitak SAGE cold launch trials

 

[SBUS-CXK]

It is not help my friend but trade. Noone ask you to help for construction of VLS or missiles but to sell missiles in exchange of money. There are other alternatives If you refuse Pakistani request. Otherwise, Do not suppose any Chinese technicians will be allowed to approach the combat management system of ship while integration activities of your missiles are being carried out.

Turkish MIDAS VLS is in trials
View attachment 607297

G-40 is being developed for the request of Navy. This naval missile will be the direct competitor of CAMM and ESSM-2. It is expected that we will see first launching in a short time.

• Cold launch
• Active radar seeker (used on Gökdoğan BVR missile) + datalink
• The range more than 40km
• Quad-packing capability, smaller size with folded wings.

View attachment 607300

Tübitak SAGE cold launch trials

Turkish friend. i know you have many plans. but i am more concerned with reality. there is a maturity period for any weapon. we Chinese usually think it is at least 2-3 years. it requires many tests under complex conditions. such as China. we can build many 052D and 055 at the same time. but it still has to undergo rigorous testing before it can serve.

Making a weapon seems simple. But we need rigor and prudence. Don't talk about models and PPT.

I look forward to China-Turkey defense cooperation. well, 2022. I should be able to see China's electromagnetic catapult in type 003.

 

[StormBreaker]

Turkish friend. i know you have many plans. but i am more concerned with reality. there is a maturity period for any weapon. we Chinese usually think it is at least 2-3 years. it requires many tests under complex conditions. such as China. we can build many 052D and 055 at the same time. but it still has to undergo rigorous testing before it can serve.

Making a weapon seems simple. But we need rigor and prudence. Don't talk about models and PPT.

I look forward to China-Turkey defense cooperation. well, 2022. I should be able to see China's electromagnetic catapult in type 003.

What is significant about 2022 ?

 

[SBUS-CXK]

What is significant about 2022 ?

Because in 2022. Turkey's first frigate will be delivered to Pakistan, I also hope that the HQ16 can be equipped to a Turkish frigate.

 

[StormBreaker]

Because in 2022. Turkey's first frigate will be delivered to Pakistan, I also hope that the HQ16 can be equipped to a Turkish frigate.

Corvette*

 

[Tank131]

Corvette*

No, in PN it will be called a frigate. It is afterall nearly 3000t and will be far more capable than the F-22P in virtually every way.

 

[StormBreaker]

No, in PN it will be called a frigate. It is afterall nearly 3000t and will be far more capable than the F-22P in virtually every way.

I am drooling

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

No, in PN it will be called a frigate. It is afterall nearly 3000t and will be far more capable than the F-22P in virtually every way.

Yep. The PN is referring to the MILGEM as the Jinnah-class frigate. That said, the 4th ship is still a mystery. We now know the first 3 will have VLS, but the 4th is apparently a Pakistani design with Turkish assistance. It could be end-to-end construction without OEM-supplied material kits (so Pakistan would select suppliers itself and construct the ship with internally made documentation). So, an additional design element may come.

That said, it'd be nice if we could design a low-cost multi-mission corvette, e.g., AShW, ASW, and AAW via VLS and SR/MR-SAMs.

 

[StormBreaker]

Yep. The PN is referring to the MILGEM as the Jinnah-class frigate. That said, the 4th ship is still a mystery. We now know the first 3 will have VLS, but the 4th is apparently a Pakistani design with Turkish assistance. It could be end-to-end construction without OEM-supplied material kits (so Pakistan would select suppliers itself and construct the ship with internally made documentation). So, an additional design element may come.

That said, it'd be nice if we could design a low-cost multi-mission corvette, e.g., AShW, ASW, and AAW via VLS and SR/MR-SAMs.

If what you are suggesting is actually what might happen, then I won’t be surprised to see further production of the 4th ship in KSEW or Gwadar in future...

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

If what you are suggesting is actually what might happen, then I won’t be surprised to see further production of the 4th ship in KSEW or Gwadar in future...

The 3rd and 4th MILGEM/J-Class will be built in Pakistan, likely KSEW (since its capacity is expanding thanks to the lift/shift system its getting from Norway).

I think Gwadar (if they actually complete it) will build commercial ships, and likely under a mix of government, private sector, etc ownership (so, we might see multiple shipyards in just Gwadar alone).

 

[Pakistani Fighter]

Any plan to get Destroyers with Long Range SAMs?? Thats what we need

 

[cabatli_53]

i know you have many plans. but i am more concerned with reality. there is a maturity period for any weapon. we Chinese usually think it is at least 2-3 years. it requires many tests under complex conditions. such as China. we can build many 052D and 055 at the same time. but it still has to undergo rigorous testing before it can serve.

Indeed, I am trying to tell something that will be a reality in a short time because What I have introduced above will be integrated on I-class frigates as well. Their production is proceeding in military shipyard at present. We will see national VLS with national missiles on these ships. Turkish warships will fire not only G-40 missiles but also Hisar-A (passed serial production), Hisar-O+ (It will pass into production at the end of this year) and Siper long altitude SAM(2022-23) missile system. Turkish industry has reached a high level maturity to supply a warship from top to down. Be it striking or defensive missile systems, torpedos, sensors...etc Quality standards of our products can not be hidden since Pakistan will be the first hand user/tester of Turkish naval subsystems in many different naval platforms. Same country is operating Chinese naval platforms as well. Their feedbacks and comparison will be shared on these pages when the time came.

I Class frigate- planned launch date for first frigate, 2021-2022.

Barbaros Class MLU upgrade - planned launch date for first frigate, 2022.

Project TF2000 - planned launch date for first destroyer, 2025-2026

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Indeed, I am trying to tell something that will be a reality in a short time because What I have introduced above will be integrated on I-class frigates as well. Their production is proceeding in military shipyard at present. We will see national VLS with national missiles on these ships. Turkish warships will fire not only G-40 missiles but also Hisar-A (passed serial production), Hisar-O+ (It will pass into production at the end of this year) and Siper long altitude SAM(2022-23) missile system. Turkish industry has reached a high level maturity to supply a warship from top to down. Be it striking or defensive missile systems, torpedos, sensors...etc Quality standards of our products can not be hidden since Pakistan will be the first hand user/tester of Turkish naval subsystems in many different naval platforms. Same country is operating Chinese naval platforms as well. Their feedbacks and comparison will be shared on these pages when the time came.

I Class frigate- planned launch date for first frigate, 2021-2022.

Barbaros Class MLU upgrade - planned launch date for first frigate, 2022.

Project TF2000 - planned launch date for first destroyer, 2025-2026
View attachment 607399

It's interesting how DefenceTurkey is still noting how the 4th Pakistani MILGEM will be different from the first 3 (and designed in Pakistan with Turkish support). I wonder, what are the chances that the 4th MILGEM ends up becoming a variant of the I-Class... What say you @Tank131, you think we can will this into existence, like we did with VLS?