Pakistan navy post 2020 - Future Plans

[cabatli_53]

It's interesting how DefenceTurkey is still noting how the 4th Pakistani MILGEM will be different from the first 3 (and designed in Pakistan with Turkish support). I wonder, what are the chances that the 4th MILGEM ends up becoming a variant of the I-Class... What say you @Tank131, you think we can will this into existence, like we did with VLS?

That is what I thought when I read the defenceturkey article. I believe 4th ship of Pakistan will be more or less an I class frigate with some design changes. Design authorities do not want to take risk while a proven design is navigating on seas so 4th Jinnah class will be more or less an I class frigate with some changes to integrate some specific products developed by Pakistani industry. When I reach some insider info, I will share.

 

[StormBreaker]

It's interesting how DefenceTurkey is still noting how the 4th Pakistani MILGEM will be different from the first 3 (and designed in Pakistan with Turkish support). I wonder, what are the chances that the 4th MILGEM ends up becoming a variant of the I-Class... What say you @Tank131, you think we can will this into existence, like we did with VLS?

That’s what i thought as i saw the pic

 

[GriffinsRule]

my friend. you mean... do you compare Turkish warships with Chinese warships? ? Sorry, I live in a real world.

you know. Chinese warships rarely encounter Turkish warships in the Western Pacific, Persian Gulf, Indian Ocean, Mediterranean, and English Channel... Of course, I also rarely see Turkish warships participating in international naval exercises. and I don't know what you mean by industrial integration capabilities. Similar to Kolkata-class destroyers?

friend. you just provide a PPT template. your data does not have any real-world support. my suggestion is. Build at least one warship. then test. (Type 055 completed in 2017，then 3 years testing，service in 2020) ，Turkish warships do not need testing? ?

you compare Turkish warships with Chinese warships. Your courage and confidence come from Turkey's PPT template technology? or paper data imagination?

Chinese two type 054A into the Black Sea from the Bosphorus. The Chinese Navy and the Russian Navy conduct military exercises in the Black Sea.

View attachment 607431 View attachment 607432

I still fail to understand what your point is?

 

[GriffinsRule]

Sorry, I just mean reality. reality. Not a PPT or a model.

Okay thanks for your input. Now let us discuss the models and PPT while you live in the real world.

 

[SBUS-CXK]

Okay thanks for your input. Now let us discuss the models and PPT while you live in the real world.

OK. Chinese navy and Pakistani navy joint military exercises.

This is the real world. No PPT.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

The Turkish Milgem Program will bring great modernization to Pakistani Navy but we will have to wait for it

• Sabr Ka Phal Meetha hota hai

The Chinese Frigates are World Class , already Top of Line

 

[Tank131]

It's interesting how DefenceTurkey is still noting how the 4th Pakistani MILGEM will be different from the first 3 (and designed in Pakistan with Turkish support). I wonder, what are the chances that the 4th MILGEM ends up becoming a variant of the I-Class... What say you @Tank131, you think we can will this into existence, like we did with VLS?

I was never more convinced about the power of dua. A larger variant based on I-class would be very interesting, and hopefully could utilize further advances in electronics that turkey is making. Additionally I have been jumping up and down about the importance of a medium range quad packed SAM from a friendly country and my friend @cabatli_53 gives me the great info about the 40km G-40 quad packed naval SAM. So i think that will be in the future for PN (iA). I am also hoping that like A90Bs, Pakistan considers turkey to modify the F-22P along a similar line the the Barbaros class frigates. Performing similar modifications like removing the FM90 for 16 cell vls and converting the lattice mast to a closed solid if not integrated mast with AESA radars (possiblely based of CAFRAD) with new CMS and up to 64 G-40 SAM equipping the ship in addition to 6-8 SSM/LACM (6harbah or other missiles including a possibility of future hypersonic missile or 8 standard SSM) and possibly adding 6 HQ-10 to the 2 CIWS (total 12 SR-SAM). These ships would be hella potent when put into a fleet with Jinnah class (especially if they are also fielding G-40 and) AND Type 054A (which hopefully could be equipped with longer range missiles for more fleet level defense). They would make one hell of a potent defense together. So start dreaming big buddy! Lolz... Now im fan boying out into the ether. Time for a break and come back to reality... But just saying, the above is possible if financials are layed out properly.

 

[SD 10]

my friend. you mean... do you compare Turkish warships with Chinese warships? ? Sorry, I live in a real world.

you know. Chinese warships rarely encounter Turkish warships in the Western Pacific, Persian Gulf, Indian Ocean, Mediterranean, and English Channel... Of course, I also rarely see Turkish warships participating in international naval exercises. and I don't know what you mean by Turkish warship integration capabilities. Similar to Kolkata-class destroyers? and I don't know much about Turkish Industrial level.... you mean it takes 5-6 years to build a 7000 t destroyer? or it takes 3 years to build a 2000 t small frigate??

friend. you just provide a PPT template. your data does not have any real-world support. my suggestion is. Build at least one warship. then test. (Type 055 completed in 2017，then 3 years testing，service in 2020) ，Turkish warships do not need testing? ?

you compare Turkish warships with Chinese warships. Your courage and confidence come from？？ PPT model or paper data imagination?

Chinese two type 054A into the Black Sea from the Bosphorus. The Chinese Navy and the Russian Navy conduct military exercises in the Black Sea.

View attachment 607431 View attachment 607432

Calm down. Why are you making so much noice with so little to contribute to discussion!

 

[cabatli_53]

Sorry. I can't participate in too much discussion. Because I'm a realist.

You can understand this as the confrontation between fantasy and reality. fantasy is very beautiful and very powerful. but it's best not to meet reality.

The people sometimes attribute own ignorance as fantasy of others. This situation mostly become a fact when the friends like you don’t have any idea what is being achieved in other part of the World. You know Engineering starts with design activities and the approved detail studies are shifted to production process, later trials. In this aspect, Turkish industry has achieved a great milestone by revealing many subsystems to be integrated on naval platforms. Radars are being produced with donestic GaN modules and Turkish institutes completed testing of a non-rotating radar complex in last year. The radar that is called as ÇAFRAD will be the main sensor of TF-2000 destroyer. Advent CMS will be the main fusion center of destroyer program as well but I class and Jinnah frigates will be the first platforms TN and PN will operate state of art command control system. CIWS and Laser guns developed by Turkish industry will be integrated on destroyer program but I class and Jinnah class frigates will be the first operator of Turkish CIWS. Same for Torpedo defense soft-kill and hard-kill syatems. Atmaca SSM will be the main striking naval missiles of both I class and Tf-2000 destroyer program. Hisar-A passed into serial production as low altitude surface to air missile and Naval ships will receive it. Hisar-O will follow the series as medium altitude by passing seril production in this year but G-40 missile will be compact and quad packable system so It will be the cost-effective solution of Navy so I prefered to mention it as Navy’s missile program. VL launchers called MIDAS will be integrated on I class frigates and later destroyer programs. Gezgin long range land attack missile program has a high level secrecy so noone will be allowed to share anything about it but It will also be a naval striking missile which goes beyond than 1000km. Pakistan will use Babur missiles for this role. Same for supersonic anti-ship missile program to be powered with SAGE’s ramjet engine. No need to mention compact bridge solutions, sonars (Jinnah frigate will use), communication systems, Ares family electronic attack/support systems( Jinnah frigate will use), IFF...etc. I can give many more examples like that. As you can see, From now, Turkey has commenced development/completion of strategic subsystems that destroyer program require, even if the hull production are not be commenced. To guarantee the sustainability, Turkey offer partnership to brother states. In this scenario, I think It is only person here who talk about fantasies are the same people who do not have any idea what is the meaning of reality in background.

but One thing you’re right is the speed factor. We just need to accelerate the schedule so Navy authorities opened a new ship construction facility in Izmir city. Another Turkish firm constructed and delivered a floating dock to new shipyard. It is being talked that New shipyard will accelerate the time scale of ongoing naval programs. If some platforms are not visible with your naked eyes, It is not about lack of engineering capability but loaded schedule of shipyards with ongoing programs.

I class frigate production is proceeding ! An old image

 

[SBUS-CXK]

The people sometimes attribute own ignorance as fantasy of others. This situation mostly become a fact when the friends like you don’t have any idea what is being achieved in other part of the World. You know Engineering starts with design activities and the approved detail studies are shifted to production process, later trials. In this aspect, Turkish industry has achieved a great milestone by revealing many subsystems to be integrated on naval platforms. Radars are being produced with donestic GaN modules and Turkish institutes completed testing of a non-rotating radar complex in last year. The radar that is called as ÇAFRAD will be the main sensor of TF-2000 destroyer. Advent CMS will be the main fusion center of destroyer program as well but I class and Jinnah frigates will be the first platforms TN and PN will operate state of art command control system. CIWS and Laser guns developed by Turkish industry will be integrated on destroyer program but I class and Jinnah class frigates will be the first operator of Turkish CIWS. Same for Torpedo defense soft-kill and hard-kill syatems. Atmaca SSM will be the main striking naval missiles of both I class and Tf-2000 destroyer program. Hisar-A passed into serial production as low altitude surface to air missile and Naval ships will receive it. Hisar-O will follow the series as medium altitude but G-40 missile will be compact and quad packable system so It will be the cost-effective solution of Navy so I prefered to mention it as Navy’s missile program. VL launchers called MIDAS will be integrated on I class frigates and later destroyer programs. Gezgin long range land attack missile program has a high level secrecy so noone will be allowed to share anything about it but It will also be a naval striking missile which goes beyond than 1000km. Pakistan will use Babur missiles for this role. Same for supersonic anti-ship missile program to be powered with SAGE’s ramjet engine. I can give many more examples like that. As you can see, From now, Turkey has commenced development/completion of strategic subsystems that destroyer program require, even if the hull production are not be commenced. To guarantee the sustainability, Turkey offer partnership to brother states. In this scenario, I think It is only person here who talk about fantasies are the same people who do not have any idea what is the meaning of reality in background.

but One thing you sure is the speed factor. We just need to accelerate the schedule so Navy authorities opened a new ship construction facility in Izmir city. Another Turkish firm constructed and delivered a floating dock to new shipyard. It is being talked that New shipyard will accelerate the time scale of ongoing naval programs.
View attachment 607475

I class frigate production is proceeding ! An old image

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ok. very good, very good. I am an ignorant person. I don't know Turkey is so great. I apologize.——Sorry!

 

[cabatli_53]

ok. very good, very good. I am an ignorant person. I don't know Turkey is so great. I apologize.——Sorry!

I forgot to mention my friend but I class and Destroyer programs will have Piri panoramic infrared imaging IRST and Nazar doped fiber laser DIRCM systems. I believe Jinnah class will have Piri IRST but most likely, Pakistani frigate will have enough space to integrate Nazar DIRCM when the construction is completed because The development activities are proceeding. The targets detected by Piri E/O under the coordination with main 3D radar will be neutralized by Nazar laser DIRCM If Missile itself has an IIR seeker head. Ares electronic attack system will interfere the radio frequency seeker heads and links of coming missile If It has an active/semi active radar guidance. These are passive defense systems of Turkish and Pakistani frigates.

 

[SD 10]

Sorry. I can't participate in too much discussion. Because I'm a realist.

You can understand this as the confrontation between fantasy and reality. fantasy is very beautiful and very powerful. but it's best not to meet reality.

Realism doesnot rule out possibilities!

 

[SBUS-CXK]

Realism doesnot rule out possibilities!

Ah, my mistake. I quit debate.

 

[Tank131]

Sorry. I can't participate in too much discussion. Because I'm a realist.

You can understand this as the confrontation between fantasy and reality. fantasy is very beautiful and very powerful. but it's best not to meet reality.

My friend i think there is a disconnect between what people are saying and what you are interpreting. I dont thinknanyone is comparing turkish industry to China, frankly it doesnt compare because you have been doing it for a long time. Turkey just started producing. With that said you must appreciate the quality of the product they are making. So far ADAs are serving well. They are moving slowly but deliberately so as not to extend themselves. But the pieces for the ships are there. They have more time needed to prove themselves, yes, but they will prove themselves. That is the reality. It is not about competing with China. It is about them developing their industry to meet their needs and incorporating friendly nations into such projects to help share risk and maybe make a few $$. As they grow their capacity they will be a bigger and bigger player. Even Saudi Arabia was looking to buy MILGEM which says something about the product given what they have access to financially.

 

[Pakistani Fighter]

I forgot to mention my friend but I class and Destroyer programs will have Piri panoramic infrared imaging IRST and Nazar doped fiber laser DIRCM systems. I believe Jinnah class will have Piri IRST but most likely, Pakistani frigate will have enough space to integrate Nazar DIRCM when the construction is completed because The development activities are proceeding. The targets detected by Piri E/O under the coordination with main 3D radar will be neutralized by Nazar laser DIRCM If Missile itself has an IIR seeker head. Ares electronic attack system will interfere the radio frequency seeker heads and links of coming missile If It has an active/semi active radar guidance. These are passive defense systems of Turkish and Pakistani frigates.

What Air Defence system will Turkish Destroyer have? What will the its expected maximum range?