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Make f22p upgraded with current electronics. And upgrade it with modern anti air system like multiple batteries of fl3000n and ciws 1130. Add harba missiles. .. improve self protection.. and u have a frigate that can serve for sometime.

I always like buuanM class upgraded Corvette. A bigger bang for the buck specially in northern Indian ocean
It’s not about serving but serving as a major offensive platform; with a capability the enemy will have a hard time deal with for the best couple of decades. There is a reason the navy has a supersonic anti ship cruise missile program; to overwhelm enemy air defenses. Why not go for a new capability at a relatively modest cost. Because if we want this capability we are going to need a platform for it, and are we going to build a Buyan-M corvette just to employ it, or are we just going to upgrade an relatively under-equipped platform (which has long range) with a qualitative advantage.

Milgem Coevettes doing ASW, F-22P with this upgrade doing ASuW and Type 054B doing AAW. A considerable powerful task force composition for breaking any blockade.
 
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If the mid-life upgrades are still on the drawing boards, hope they consider putting in an 8-cell 9 meter deep Universal VLS aft of the funnel to be able to hold long range Anti-Ship Missiles like the (officially) 290 km range Hypersonic YJ-21 (a design based on the proposed export oriented CM-401 missile). In coordination with adding 8 YJ-18 in the standard position amid-ships. A Pakistani follow-on version of both with much longer ranges could give Pakistan the qualitative edge, and the YJ-21 derivative could even be an option for the Pakistani Army’s land based missiles forces to deal with the S-400s. Considering their small size, The YJ-21 or a derivative could also form the basis for a nascent SLBM force for use on possibly the last 3 of the Yuan subs ordered from China. Officially as conventional ASBM, but could have use as a second strike capability. Even a modest 8-10 missiles per sub could be a game changer for conventional and Special missions. But that’s a topic of a separate thread.

A coordinated attack (hypersonic arrive just when the sea-skimmers are expected to arrive) with 16 anti-ship missiles maybe enough to overwhelm an Indian Warship, and make the F-22P a considerable threat for the IN and keep them guessing. The Sea-King Helicopters in the current inventory could also be modified to carry a long range air search radar like the one on the AW-101 AEW “Crowsnest” to give independent targeting data and help the surface warship guide its anti-ship missiles and the AAW frigate better guide its air defense missiles in the event of a battle.


Operating with an AAW/ASW Frigate like the proposed Type 054B) the F-22P should be able add significant offensive surface punch to the task force and not overburden the design of the Type 054B to be even larger and more expensive.


The F-22P is probably large enough that change shouldn’t alter the center of gravity, but I maybe wrong (To Paraphrase Mckoy, ... I’m not a naval engineer). IMHO, it’s a considerable upgrade that should be looked into to better counter balance Indian Naval developments for a relatively modest cost considering the hull is already active. Otherwise the F-22P will remain little more then a large off-shore patrol ship considering the capabilities of adversary. If the F-22P is getting a decent number of 30-50 Km range air defense missiles via VLS forward of the bridge, 24 cell HQ-10 launcher on top of the Hanger, and a new Type 1130 CIWS for self defense, it could be able to get into a position to launch and deal with some enemy missiles coming at it in the terminal phase.

Btw, if these missiles look too big for a ship the size of the F-22P, we need only look at a similar sized VLS on the under a 1000 ton Buyan-M Corvettes. The F-22P is large enough to be able to carry these missiles and have the full suite of capabilities to protect itself from air, Surface and sub-surface threat and operate as a blue-water Frigate. With these capabilities, the PN wouldn’t need as many planes for the Anti-Shipping Role.
I know that this is going to hurt and make a lot of people angry, but I dont like the big focus on surface ships especially so many frigates for a country with a tiny coastline. Dont get me wrong we still need a navy but should have focused more on Corvettes like the Yarmook class. We dont need to fight wars 4000km+ away. In my opinion PN has choosen the wrong strategy. Should have had more focus on asymmetric capabilities with A2/AD in mind. Others can of course disagree.

We need to protect our shipping in Arabian Sea and its surrounding waters. Corvettes can do that job fine we dont need 10+ frigates for that job.

The Indian Navy will be among the top 5 largest navies in the world by tonnage in 2030. Let that sink in for a moment. In any confrontation with the IN the PN needs asymmetric methods. Our surface fleet will not last long. Our coastline is tiny which makes them very vulnerable to IN and IAF strikes.
 
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I know that this is going to hurt and make a lot of people angry, but I dont like the big focus on surface ships especially so many frigates for a country with a tiny coastline. Dont get me wrong we still need a navy but should have focused more on Corvettes like the Yarmook class. We dont need to fight wars 4000km+ away. In my opinion PN has choosen the wrong strategy. Should have had more focus on asymmetric capabilities with A2/AD in mind. Others can of course disagree.

We need to protect our shipping in Arabian Sea and its surrounding waters. Corvettes can do that job fine we dont need 10+ frigates for that job.

The Indian Navy will be among the top 5 largest navies in the world by tonnage in 2030. Let that sink in for a moment. In any confrontation with the IN the PN needs asymmetric methods. Our surface fleet will not last long. Our coastline is tiny which makes them very vulnerable to IN and IAF strikes.

We need an independent air arm separate from PAF. The investment we are seeing will go up in smoke without proper air cover.
 
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why do we need that? dont you trust PAF and joint operations between PAF and PN

As the previous history has shown, PAF constricted in its air wars with the Indians. Facing the Indian Air Force is a big enough task as it is due to its size and then add the Indian Navy Air Arm. So PAF will not just be helping the Navy but also the Army, and its resources will be stretched too thin. Do not forget that attrition will deplete our air force as well.
 
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We need an independent air arm separate from PAF. The investment we are seeing will go up in smoke without proper air cover.
100% brother. Our surface fleet no matter how heavily armed will be extremely vulnerable without proper air cover. Basically they would be sitting ducks in without proper air cover.

There are 2 questions here bro. How many squadrons/fighter jets would the Pakistan Naval Air Arm need? 36? 54?72? 90?

Which aircraft would be best suited for this role? I would prefer a long range aircraft like the J-16. Or maybe a combination of J-16 and J-35/J-31.
 
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100% brother. Our surface fleet no matter how heavily armed will be extremely vulnerable without proper air cover. Basically they would be sitting ducks in without proper air cover.

There are 2 questions here bro. How many squadrons/fighter jets would the Pakistan Naval Air Arm need? 36? 54?72? 90?

Which aircraft would be best suited for this role? I would prefer a long range aircraft like the J-16. Or maybe a combination of J-16 and J-35/J-31.

I think three squadrons are more than enough for the time being. However, the requirement would be a twin-engined plane we aren't getting from the West, but I'm sure if asked through the Chinese, they can license produce J-16; I mean, we are already getting Russian engines. If not, what @MastanKhan has been saying the JH-7 beefed up to our requirements would do, but it'll be strictly for the Anti-Ship role, while if not J-16 for Air-Air, we should get J-10C.
 
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I think three squadrons are more than enough for the time being. However, the requirement would be a twin-engined plane we aren't getting from the West, but I'm sure if asked through the Chinese, they can license produce J-16; I mean, we are already getting Russian engines. If not, what @MastanKhan has been saying the JH-7 beefed up to our requirements would do, but it'll be strictly for the Anti-Ship role, while if not J-16 for Air-Air, we should get J-10C.
Hi,

The navy needs an aircraft that can carry 2 heavy AsHM's---1000Kg category.
 
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100% brother. Our surface fleet no matter how heavily armed will be extremely vulnerable without proper air cover. Basically they would be sitting ducks in without proper air cover.

There are 2 questions here bro. How many squadrons/fighter jets would the Pakistan Naval Air Arm need? 36? 54?72? 90?

Which aircraft would be best suited for this role? I would prefer a long range aircraft like the J-16. Or maybe a combination of J-16 and J-35/J-31.
The J-10’s with maritime paint scheme should indicate that they are currently foreseen as the medium to long range naval fighter, with probably the Mirages and JF-17 forming the fighter cover closer to shore. A future variant of the J-10 powered by the WS-15 should be supported by the PAF to allow it to employ the 2 x 1000 kg AShCM @MastanKhan suggests. With the added thrust it should be able to carry enough fuel to strike deep and from unexpected vectors, complicating enemy planning. At this point, IMHO, the PAF should focus on advancing the development of the J-10 to fit its needs and not purchase any other fighter in support of the naval mission. War time attrition losses can be filled in by lend/lease loans from China. The same goes for surface ships and submarines.

The PN still needs enough tonnage to carry longer range systems, hence the need for larger ships. Sure, coastal AShCM batteries will be important but coupled with a decent sized submarine force and enough fighter cover, the PN could employ qualitative superior weapons to expand their options. Fighting defensively all the time is just going to end up with how much or how little we are willing to concede. We need capabilities to take the fight deep into the enemy’s homeland. Hence, why I suggested putting the YJ-21 on the F-22P frigates. We need to be able to strike deep and hard initially as well as sustainably (allowing replacement platforms from China to help maintain Pakistan’s fighting ability throughout the war)

Also, the PN may have a strategy it isn’t talking about, and this build up is a more comprehensive effort with regional tie ins.
 
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I think three squadrons are more than enough for the time being. However, the requirement would be a twin-engined plane we aren't getting from the West, but I'm sure if asked through the Chinese, they can license produce J-16; I mean, we are already getting Russian engines. If not, what @MastanKhan has been saying the JH-7 beefed up to our requirements would do, but it'll be strictly for the Anti-Ship role, while if not J-16 for Air-Air, we should get J-10C.
So ... increase the size of the air force? Seems like an obvious solution to the problem you are trying to solve.
 
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I know that this is going to hurt and make a lot of people angry, but I dont like the big focus on surface ships especially so many frigates for a country with a tiny coastline. Dont get me wrong we still need a navy but should have focused more on Corvettes like the Yarmook class. We dont need to fight wars 4000km+ away. In my opinion PN has choosen the wrong strategy. Should have had more focus on asymmetric capabilities with A2/AD in mind. Others can of course disagree.
That is possibly the silliest thing I have read.
The pur[pose of a Navy isn't to guard the coast. It's to defend Sea Lines of Communication and deny them to the enemy.
97% of our trade is sea bourne. Important SLOCS to the Gulf, Far East, the Suez and the East Coast of Africa. All but the first, require operations well beyond the coast.
 
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I know that this is going to hurt and make a lot of people angry, but I dont like the big focus on surface ships especially so many frigates for a country with a tiny coastline. Dont get me wrong we still need a navy but should have focused more on Corvettes like the Yarmook class. We dont need to fight wars 4000km+ away. In my opinion PN has choosen the wrong strategy. Should have had more focus on asymmetric capabilities with A2/AD in mind. Others can of course disagree.

We need to protect our shipping in Arabian Sea and its surrounding waters. Corvettes can do that job fine we dont need 10+ frigates for that job.

The Indian Navy will be among the top 5 largest navies in the world by tonnage in 2030. Let that sink in for a moment. In any confrontation with the IN the PN needs asymmetric methods. Our surface fleet will not last long. Our coastline is tiny which makes them very vulnerable to IN and IAF strikes.

That is possibly the silliest thing I have read.
The pur[pose of a Navy isn't to guard the coast. It's to defend Sea Lines of Communication and deny them to the enemy.
97% of our trade is sea bourne. Important SLOCS to the Gulf, Far East, the Suez and the East Coast of Africa. All but the first, require operations well beyond the coast.
I think the outlier is the Type 054A/P, which is the PN's largest vessel by tonnage both today and in the roadmap.

The Jinnah-class frigate (JCF) is just right from a design standpoint. Its displacement is around 3,500 tons and delivers a well-balanced AAW, AShW, and ASW capability without requiring a heavy operational cost. If anything, I think the PN should've skipped the Babur-class corvette and, instead, skipped to the JCF.

Build 12 JCFs (in both Turkey and Pakistan) to cover the SLOCs. Beyond that, focus on A2/AD by investing in stealthy FAC(M) designs, pursuing an original SSK or SSP design (e.g., STM TS1700) to build in larger numbers, UUVs, USVs, etc.
 
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Missiles are becoming bigger. While the exact dimensions of the P282 aren't known (or that of SMASH) beyond s certain point you cannot really have those missiles on a smaller hull, which is why the newer Burkes and the Type 055 are cruiser sized these days.
I suspect the Jinnah class will near 7-8k displacement when actually made.
 
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I think the outlier is the Type 054A/P, which is the PN's largest vessel by tonnage both today and in the roadmap.

The Jinnah-class frigate (JCF) is just right from a design standpoint. Its displacement is around 3,500 tons and delivers a well-balanced AAW, AShW, and ASW capability without requiring a heavy operational cost. If anything, I think the PN should've skipped the Babur-class corvette and, instead, skipped to the JCF.

Build 12 JCFs (in both Turkey and Pakistan) to cover the SLOCs. Beyond that, focus on A2/AD by investing in stealthy FAC(M) designs, pursuing an original SSK or SSP design (e.g., STM TS1700) to build in larger numbers, UUVs, USVs, etc.
I have heard that a nuclear attack submarine is under construction in Karachi? You have any information regarding that?
 
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I have heard that a nuclear attack submarine is under construction in Karachi? You have any information regarding that?
Attack submarines are indeed under construction in Khi. Since the original AIP is unlikely to be available, something has to be used. There is some rumours online that they are using a locally designed nuclear plant instead.
As I said, rumours. We will find out when the vessel launches, most likely late next year.
 
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