PAKISTAN NAVY Invites Bids for Fixed Wing and VTOL UAV

[XYON]

he lost nothing - the GoP did not allocate the funds as it did not have them

Pakistan Navy should NOT induct a VTOL UAV at this stage as their is no VTOL system being currently used in service anywhere in the world by any Navy. Its generally the bed-rock policy of Pakistan Armed Forces to not to induct systems that are not being initially also used by other sister services.

All the offered VTOL UAV's (APID that crashed and Schiebel Camcopter S-100) were tested in ideal conditions with Sea-State 2 or 3. In the Arabian Sea ambient environment of high winds and corrosive elements, a VTOL UAV will have a very high attrition rate if inducted which in turn will have high recurring costs as crashed Air Vehicles at sea generally tend to sink and completely ravage on-board electronics!

Pakistan Navy cannot incur high recurring costs for continually buying VTOL frames from the manufacturer and hence is much better off with fixed wing frames that are relatively cheaper both to replace and operate.

VTOL UAV technology by far remains experimental at best with all military's around the world and unless a system is matured through the rigors of induction with other armed forces around the world, it should not be considered for induction into Pakistan Navy.

 

[XYON]

CAMCOPTER S-100 Aerial Vehicle including standard daylight zoom pilot camera, covers and field tools + CAMCOPTER S-100 Control Station including CUBE, two ruggedized workstation notebooks, pilot control unit, standard primary link module, secondary link module, GPS reference station and all cables (up to25 m) including external power cable for AV
36” by 72” Tracking Antenna, Auto-Tracking including separate Control Unit (180 km range) + Tool Kit, Workshop, complete + Spare Parts Package calculated for a system of two Aerial Vehicles and one Control Station
Microstar II Dual Sensor Airborne, Thermal Imager including gyro-stabilized dual sensor turret, laptop control unit, color CCD camera, auto tracker, laser pointer, shipping case, 1.8x extender, UAV cable kit, installation kit and manuals
Operator and Field Maintenance Training for 6 PN students, course duration 12 weeks at PN facilities with PN equipment, including lodging, per diem, and airfare
Technical Support, Installation & Commissioning at PN Site or ship, per four week period, including one certified UAV operator and one certified UAV maintenance specialist + CAMCOPTER S-100 Full Simulation System for Training of PN Operators + Water-Activated Floats, Set + Emergency Location Transmitter (ELT) + Self-Sufficient Container (20 ft)


According to my intelligence from within NHQ, Schiebel had offered the above (around 3 years ago) equipment as a package (with 10 air vehicles & 4 GCS) to PN for a total cost of EUR11.5 million! In this package only the Air Vehicle cost is EUR400,000 each!!!! that is an expensive proposition for a VTOL air vehicle that could have high chances of attrition at sea for PN!!

Cybaero VTOL APID was priced around 5-8% lower compared to the above!!

FALCO fixed wing UAV had give a proposal for 4 AV, and 4 Ground Control Stations for around EUR17 million!!!

Again, expensive propositions for PN at the end of the day.

Also, Pakistan Army had recently rejected the offer by Camcopter S-100 as it does not see VTOL as a reliable platform for its operations on land.

(to calculate latest prices, please add approx 5% inflation rate for every year until 2010!)

 

[Super Falcon]

Camcopter i think is well suited for VOTAL but not too sure on its long endurance and how fast it is

 

[XYON]

Camcopter i think is well suited for VOTAL but not too sure on its long endurance and how fast it is

That statement cannot be qualified at this time as the Camcopter is still not inducted into any Navy of the world. The most important factor in any VTOL UAV remains the attrition rate and Mean Time Before failure (MTBF) both of which are attained after a unit has flown enough hours into actual service & combat conditions. Camcopter is not a matured & battle-proven VTOL platform yet and it will be pretty stupid for our Navy to induct something which at this time is not used by any other Navy in the world.

Pakistan Navy, again, should not become a guinea pig stuck with an experimental platform!!

 

[TaimiKhan]

Scan Eagle is the best option for UAV capability by warships at sea, as it can be launched as well as recovered at the sea, that also pretty easily.

While for land based option, Falco UAV should be looked into as it has pretty good endurance, being made locally, costs would be down, will give boost to local production and has good upgrade potential.

Army, Navy and Air Force should go for one or two UAV systems for combined usage.

Scan Eagle and Falco are very good UAVs which all three services can use pretty effectively, and if produced locally, costs and operational costs would be down and there would be uniformity and many other operational benefits.

 

[XYON]

Scan Eagle is the best option for UAV capability by warships at sea, as it can be launched as well as recovered at the sea, that also pretty easily.

While for land based option, Falco UAV should be looked into as it has pretty good endurance, being made locally, costs would be down, will give boost to local production and has good upgrade potential.

Army, Navy and Air Force should go for one or two UAV systems for combined usage.

Scan Eagle and Falco are very good UAVs which all three services can use pretty effectively, and if produced locally, costs and operational costs would be down and there would be uniformity and many other operational benefits.

Agreed! VTOL should only be considered for procurement after the platforms have matured in service use by other worldwide navies. Unntil such time the Navy should look at Scan Eagle and/ or Falco or equivalent systems.

 

[XYON]

The S-100 Camcopter that was tested on the PNS Shajahan in March 2008 ONLY flew up to 35kms from sea onto the marshlands near Karachi!! The claimed range of the system is around 180kms and for a VTOL to fly that far away from a ship platform in the Arabian Sea ambient environment is categorically invitation to component failure and higher attrition rates!!

P.S - Even the Austrian Army (the parent country of manufacture) is NOT using the Camcopter S-100!! The Indian Navy tested the S-100 and until to-date has not purchased it because they feel that it is not suitable for operations in the Arabian Sea!

 

[raazh]

There is no budget for this inquiry and this is not the first time this request has been floated along with another big ticket item. Dont wana go into the details of corruption at the moment. Its all time high in all the three services. Period!

 

[Penguin]

The S-100 Camcopter that was tested on the PNS Shajahan in March 2008 ONLY flew up to 35kms from sea onto the marshlands near Karachi!! The claimed range of the system is around 180kms and for a VTOL to fly that far away from a ship platform in the Arabian Sea ambient environment is categorically invitation to component failure and higher attrition rates!!

P.S - Even the Austrian Army (the parent country of manufacture) is NOT using the Camcopter S-100!! The Indian Navy tested the S-100 and until to-date has not purchased it because they feel that it is not suitable for operations in the Arabian Sea!

'India, Israel developing unmanned helicopter'
The unmanned helicopter meant primarily for use by the navy will carry payloads such as day-and-night-imaging systems and various radar systems.
'India, Israel developing unmanned helicopter'


Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) and Israel Aerospace Industries (IAI) will convert the HAL-built Chetak Helicopter into an Unmanned Aerial Vehicle (UAV),
domain-b.com : AeroIndia 2009: HAL, IAI to convert Chetak chopper into UAV

as the Chetak was already flying, he did not foresee any difficulties in converting it into a rotary-wing UAV, as all it required was integration of the command and control systems. HAL's Chetak is a version of the French Alouette helicopter.
http://www.satnews.com/cgi-bin/story.cgi?number=1312146799


This might explain the lack of interest in purchasing...

 

[jha]

^^ Plus there was some news about IN interested in Fire-Scout.

 

[Donatello]

Millions of dollars can be poured into research.

GIKI, LUMS SSE and NUST are all excellent institutions with amazing Professors and staff. Why not Give them funding and make them compete to come up with UAVs?

I mean how hard can it be, really?

The winning institution then gets to setup a firm or something, for manufacturing.


No need to waste millions on foreign technology, that is simply not that advanced in anycase.

 

[unicorn]

Millions of dollars can be poured into research.

GIKI, LUMS SSE and NUST are all excellent institutions with amazing Professors and staff. Why not Give them funding and make them compete to come up with UAVs?

I mean how hard can it be, really?

The winning institution then gets to setup a firm or something, for manufacturing.


No need to waste millions on foreign technology, that is simply not that advanced in anycase.

Pakistan has invested a lot of money in this field and the results will come in the upcoming years or very possible the early months of 2011 will bring some news.

 

[Arsalan]

That the point,
We have made good progress in this field and now we need to build on this. Falco deal was value for money as it gave us insight in more advance western system and provided us with basic data to improve on our systems. Now we must not go spending $$ on foreign equipments anymore. At most, we can seek a joint venture with Turkey/China for co development and production to further strengthen our indegenious abilities.
I don’t see a point in PN going to procure foreign systems as it is worth millions of $$.

This is just my view point and I hope I will find many over here who will agree with this,,

Regards!

 

[F-16_Falcon]

fine. will it carry missiles?

 

[XYON]

fine. will it carry missiles?

The French DGA have tested the Camcopter S-100 with light air-air missiles but that is also in experimental stage and I doubt it will be offered to PN under any circumstances at this stage!!