‘Pakistan Navy fully capable of defending country’s long coast’

[BHarwana]

Did you read the rest of my post as well?
I dont think so

As for 15 Brahmos
It takes 2 at a time per ship. The current self Defence capacity on PN ships is incapable of handling more than one supersonic see skimming missile.

I agree with you but here is what the best defence in the world did today against a slow moving missile which was fired from a jet.


U.S. missile defence test unsuccessful - official

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/u-s-missile-defence-test-unsuccessful-official.542007/

And all the missiles fired from Yemen on Saudia were all hits. Saudis lied about intercept I can provide that info from Janes recent post.

So please Now help me what is the best defence against Brahmos?????

 

[SQ8]

He is most definitely not being sarcastic. He is leveraging this stupid statement by claiming to have 'worked in R&D with the military'.

Ok, refute my statement based on technical merit rather than the usual Pakistani drama.
Refute it.

Type 21s have no effective missile.. they have CIWS and MANPAD mistrals .

F-22Ps carry the Chinese copy of the Crotale.. effectivly a hybrid of 70’s Crotale with modern solid state systems.

Alamgir only has CIWS.

Lets assume that all form a main group supplemented by two SAG(in case you probably don’t know.. Surface Action Groups).

These are covered by Masroor JF-17s and maybe some F-16s from Bholari.

The IN and IAF launch a coordinated strike with three Brahmos flights, one Brahmos per MKI, 6 MKI per flight which is reasonable knowing their serviceability rates of 60%. MKI’s carry their A2A load as well.

The brahmos does mach 2.5 at terminal.

Please tell me how the PN ships will survive.

 

[BHarwana]

He is most definitely not being sarcastic. He is leveraging this stupid statement by claiming to have 'worked in R&D with the military'.

You don't know him my friend but I know who he is and I respect him here on PDF most. Don't make PDF a jungle rule and think before bashing any one here. Some times criticism is important for Improvement.

 

[SQ8]

I agree with you but here is what the best defence in the world did today against a slow moving missile which was fired from a jet.


U.S. missile defence test unsuccessful - official

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/u-s-missile-defence-test-unsuccessful-official.542007/

And all the missiles fired from Yemen on Saudia were all hits. Saudis lied about intercept I can provide that info from Janes recent post.

So please Now help me what is the best defence against Brahmos?????

I agree with you but here is what the best defence in the world did today against a slow moving missile which was fired from a jet.


U.S. missile defence test unsuccessful - official

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/u-s-missile-defence-test-unsuccessful-official.542007/

And all the missiles fired from Yemen on Saudia were all hits. Saudis lied about intercept I can provide that info from Janes recent post.

So please Now help me what is the best defence against Brahmos?????

New ships that can support multiple Short range Air Defence layers. Such as both projectile based CIWS(Phlanax) and short range highly maneuverable hit to kill missiles(SeaRAM or similar French offerings).

The way to defeat supersonic missiles devised by the US navy was to give their air defence destroyers enough magazine capacity (50+ Rim-66) so that they could saturate the kill probably.

 

[BHarwana]

New ships that can support multiple Short range Air Defence layers. Such as both projectile based CIWS(Phlanax) and short range highly maneuverable hit to kill missiles(SeaRAM or similar French offerings).

The way to defeat supersonic missiles devised by the US navy was to give their air defence destroyers enough magazine capacity (50+ Rim-66) so that they could saturate the kill probably.

French systems are unproven and untested so they will not work the USA tech has failed twice in test phase only. The Israeli Arrows 3 has been failing since 2014 to last test just 15 days ago also failed I my self posted thread about the failure of Arrows system.

 

[Ultima Thule]

He was trying to say that Pakistan Navy is not that good in strength and should be improved using Sarcasm but you all are bashing him please give critics some room.



So my question is what is a good defence against Bhramos?

don't know about saturation attack
Chinese RAM
FL-3000N[edit]

Octuple launcher of FL-3000N.
The Flying Leopard 3000 Naval (FL-3000N) was first revealed to the public at the 7th Zhuhai Airshow at the end of 2008. Although using the Flying Leopard designation, the FL-3000N is actually a different missile system than the FL-2000(V) shown earlier. In fact, the only commonality shared by both SAM system is the launcher design, and even the launchers differ in size due to the different diameters of the missiles used in the systems.

Instead of using QW-1 Vanguard MANPADs, the FL-3000N system uses the HQ10 (Red Flag 10) surface to air missile developed from TY-90 missile. The diameter of the missile is enlarged by a third, but the most important design difference is its guidance system. The FL-3000N missile utilizes a combined guidance system that incorporates both passive radio frequency (RF) guidance and imaging infrared (ImIR) guidance. There are a pair of horn like protrusions mounted on the ImIR seeker at the tip of the missile, and these two protrusions are the passive RF seeker. An optional ImIR only guidance is also available and the missile is a fire and forget weapon.

The fire control system (FCS) of FL-3000N can simultaneously control two launchers, and can be integrated into other FCS on board ships. Alternatively, FL-3000N is also capable being directly controlled by other FCS on board ships. The system is usually fully automatic without human intervention, but manual operation can be inserted when needed.

The primary launching system of FL-3000N is a 24-cell launcher, developed from FLS-1. An optional extra magazine with automated loading system is available for larger warships when there is enough space provided. On smaller surface combatants where space is limited, the extra magazine with the automated loading system is eliminated and the reload is done manually. To further utilize confined space, an 8-cell launcher and a quadruple launcher are also available. Additionally, a single-cell launcher is available for mounting on existing naval gun mounts.

Specifications:

• Length: 2 meters
• Diameter: 0.12 meter
• Minimum range: < 500 meters
• Maximum range: > 9 km for subsonic targets, > 6 km for supersonic targets
• Guidance: passive RF + ImIR or ImIR only[citation needed]
• 
  
• 
  
• do research before you post @BHarwana

 

[SipahSalar]

Ok, refute my statement based on technical merit rather than the usual Pakistani drama.
Refute it.

Logic went out the window when you said 15 BrahMos would end the PN. I could effectively turn the tables and ask you which IN ships are capable of stopping a Mach 4 CM-400 AKG. But why bother.

 

[SQ8]

He is most definitely not being sarcastic. He is leveraging this stupid statement by claiming to have 'worked in R&D with the military'.


40 CM-400AKG are all that is needed to end the surface capacity of the IN at its current state.
Twelve sorties from Strike aircraft with that weapon can keep the PN from simply not even bothering to come close to the A2/AD assets and setting a blockade a good distance away from the coasts.

The first statement shows your stupidity in trying to combat the credibility (established by the forum administration and by the peers I know rather than fastest poster “Senior” members like you)

The second statement of which the only technical statement you gave was CM-400AKG parroting also tells of your ignorance. The CM-400 is integrated with the JF-17 but none were ordered because in the end the PAF refused to budget for them citing a good existing weapons system in the C series.
Please find the CM-400AKG in any records in transfers.

The second paragraph is a typical troll trying to hide behind is lack of knowledge since he has no idea what A2/AD means.

 

[BHarwana]

don't know about saturation attack
Chinese RAM
FL-3000N[edit]

Octuple launcher of FL-3000N.
The Flying Leopard 3000 Naval (FL-3000N) was first revealed to the public at the 7th Zhuhai Airshow at the end of 2008. Although using the Flying Leopard designation, the FL-3000N is actually a different missile system than the FL-2000(V) shown earlier. In fact, the only commonality shared by both SAM system is the launcher design, and even the launchers differ in size due to the different diameters of the missiles used in the systems.

Instead of using QW-1 Vanguard MANPADs, the FL-3000N system uses the HQ10 (Red Flag 10) surface to air missile developed from TY-90 missile. The diameter of the missile is enlarged by a third, but the most important design difference is its guidance system. The FL-3000N missile utilizes a combined guidance system that incorporates both passive radio frequency (RF) guidance and imaging infrared (ImIR) guidance. There are a pair of horn like protrusions mounted on the ImIR seeker at the tip of the missile, and these two protrusions are the passive RF seeker. An optional ImIR only guidance is also available and the missile is a fire and forget weapon.

The fire control system (FCS) of FL-3000N can simultaneously control two launchers, and can be integrated into other FCS on board ships. Alternatively, FL-3000N is also capable being directly controlled by other FCS on board ships. The system is usually fully automatic without human intervention, but manual operation can be inserted when needed.

The primary launching system of FL-3000N is a 24-cell launcher, developed from FLS-1. An optional extra magazine with automated loading system is available for larger warships when there is enough space provided. On smaller surface combatants where space is limited, the extra magazine with the automated loading system is eliminated and the reload is done manually. To further utilize confined space, an 8-cell launcher and a quadruple launcher are also available. Additionally, a single-cell launcher is available for mounting on existing naval gun mounts.

Specifications:

• Length: 2 meters
• Diameter: 0.12 meter
• Minimum range: < 500 meters
• Maximum range: > 9 km for subsonic targets, > 6 km for supersonic targets
• Guidance: passive RF + ImIR or ImIR only[citation needed]
• 
  
• 
  
• do research before you post @BHarwana

I am a pakistani my friend I don't believe in internet posts and what the west is saying. I only believe in the stuff proven in front of us and in battle field. That is why Pakistan has defended it's self from an enemy 3 time it's size we don't consider every glowing thing as gold. and please I am trying to have a discussion with some one with knowledge don't bring in internet post here.

 

[SQ8]

Logic went out the window when you said 15 BrahMos would end the PN. I could effectively turn the tables and ask you which IN ships are capable of stopping a Mach 4 CM-400 AKG. But why bother.

I would love to see you try. You are nothing more than a shamed hot head trying to cover for his lack of knowledge and humility in this field.
Rather than trying to even get an actual debate going and research, your attempts at trying to save your own skin from an intellectual drubbing Are amusing but also a disappointing display of Pakistani willingness to use knowledge rather than emotional bluster to thwart a threat.

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

He was trying to say that Pakistan Navy is not that good in strength and should be improved using Sarcasm but you all are bashing him please give critics some room.



So my question is what is a good defence against Bhramos?

Doesn't Pak's nuclear doctrine contain a clause where it's said any naval blockade and Big Macs are synonymous???? IMO what's Pak's advantage is the sub-surface staffs, and the variety of missiles. As for controlling IOR, China is going nowhere!!! And great powers from the Ehl-i Dunya will be always at loggerheads with one another as per the BOOK. You need to just leverage that Real Politik with a pair of sharp eyes and cool grey staffs in b/w your ears (aka Sultan Abdul Hamid) to chalk out enough time and space to put your house in order!!! And, never forget to ruthlessly subdue the local proxy traitors - they're the ultimate weapon of choice of your enemies**!!! By the by, Turkey is developing one comprehensive naval protection system incorporating home built very long range radars, satellites, air assets, all sorts of missiles, naval drones etc. Pak might take a look at that....

** The Sultan knew it too well, but Divar-i Kubra doesn't allow the men with Ilm to try to derail the Murad-i Ilahi - it's the deal....

 

[SQ8]

don't know about saturation attack
Chinese RAM
FL-3000N[edit]

Octuple launcher of FL-3000N.
The Flying Leopard 3000 Naval (FL-3000N) was first revealed to the public at the 7th Zhuhai Airshow at the end of 2008. Although using the Flying Leopard designation, the FL-3000N is actually a different missile system than the FL-2000(V) shown earlier. In fact, the only commonality shared by both SAM system is the launcher design, and even the launchers differ in size due to the different diameters of the missiles used in the systems.

Instead of using QW-1 Vanguard MANPADs, the FL-3000N system uses the HQ10 (Red Flag 10) surface to air missile developed from TY-90 missile. The diameter of the missile is enlarged by a third, but the most important design difference is its guidance system. The FL-3000N missile utilizes a combined guidance system that incorporates both passive radio frequency (RF) guidance and imaging infrared (ImIR) guidance. There are a pair of horn like protrusions mounted on the ImIR seeker at the tip of the missile, and these two protrusions are the passive RF seeker. An optional ImIR only guidance is also available and the missile is a fire and forget weapon.

The fire control system (FCS) of FL-3000N can simultaneously control two launchers, and can be integrated into other FCS on board ships. Alternatively, FL-3000N is also capable being directly controlled by other FCS on board ships. The system is usually fully automatic without human intervention, but manual operation can be inserted when needed.

The primary launching system of FL-3000N is a 24-cell launcher, developed from FLS-1. An optional extra magazine with automated loading system is available for larger warships when there is enough space provided. On smaller surface combatants where space is limited, the extra magazine with the automated loading system is eliminated and the reload is done manually. To further utilize confined space, an 8-cell launcher and a quadruple launcher are also available. Additionally, a single-cell launcher is available for mounting on existing naval gun mounts.

Specifications:

• Length: 2 meters
• Diameter: 0.12 meter
• Minimum range: < 500 meters
• Maximum range: > 9 km for subsonic targets, > 6 km for supersonic targets
• Guidance: passive RF + ImIR or ImIR only[citation needed]
• 
  
• 
  
• do research before you post @BHarwana

Such systems are a good option for the PN, but that depends on:

A.whether existing systems can be retrofitted cost effectively
B. If the system actually performs as advertized.

 

[BHarwana]

Doesn't Pak's nuclear doctrine contain a clause where it's said any naval blockade and Big Macs are synonymous???? IMO what's Pak's advantage is the sub-surface staffs, and the variety of missiles. As for controlling IOR, China is going nowhere!!! And great powers from the Ehl-i Dunya will be always at loggerheads with one another as per the BOOK. You need to just leverage that Real Politik with a pair of sharp eyes and cool grey staffs in b/w your ears (aka Sultan Abdul Hamid) to chalk out enough time and space to put your house in order!!! And, never forget to ruthlessly subdue the local proxy traitors - they're the ultimate weapon of choice of your enemies!!! By the by, Turkey is developing one comprehensive naval protection system incorporating home built very long range radars, satellites, air assets, all sorts of missiles, naval drones etc. Pak might take a look at that....

Yes it do but I want to keep nukes out of this discussion and do it on conventional war terms.

 

[SQ8]

Doesn't Pak's nuclear doctrine contain a clause where it's said any naval blockade and Big Macs are synonymous???? IMO what's Pak's advantage is the sub-surface staffs, and the variety of missiles. As for controlling IOR, China is going nowhere!!! And great powers from the Ehl-i Dunya will be always at loggerheads with one another as per the BOOK. You need to just leverage that Real Politik with a pair of sharp eyes and cool grey staffs in b/w your ears (aka Sultan Abdul Hamid) to chalk out enough time and space to put your house in order!!! And, never forget to ruthlessly subdue the local proxy traitors - they're the ultimate weapon of choice of your enemies!!! By the by, Turkey is developing one comprehensive naval protection system incorporating home built very long range radars, satellites, air assets, all sorts of missiles, naval drones etc. Pak might take a look at that....

Turkish programs exist but currently are too many and too dependent on funding to proceed beyond the intitial concepts. Many have been tested but then the price point exceeds what Pakistan can afford; at the end, the Quran is clear that money matters even with the closest should be recorded and the inference to that is not to be lenient with finances.
So simply Turkey has only soo much incentive to go out of the way for Pakistan.

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

Turkish programs exist but currently are too many and too dependent on funding to proceed beyond the intitial concepts. Many have been tested but then the price point exceeds what Pakistan can afford; at the end, the Quran is clear that money matters even with the closest should be recorded and the inference to that is not to be lenient with finances.
So simply Turkey has only soo much incentive to go out of the way for Pakistan.

Only today 55 current and new defense projects have been granted ~10b$ by the Cabinet headed by the President...