Pakistan Navy forces out an armed Indian Submarine from Pakistani waters.

[MastanKhan]

No PN does not have it in it's fleet as of now.

PDF Exclusive: There are several platforms under consideration, and this is one of them.

Hi,

The yemen coalition would definitely have helped the cause.

@Indus Falcon Sir, would you like to tell the forum what the ancient sub was doing in Pakistan's EEZ?

Hi,

I still believe that there was another one more advanced and deeper into the pakistani waters that escaped unnoticed.

I simply cannot believe that an indian sub surfaced to breath fresh air 40 nm from pakistani coastline---.

I believe that it was a part of tag team display---.

 

[Counterpunch]

Hi,

The yemen coalition would definitely have helped the cause.



Hi,

I still believe that there was another one more advanced and deeper into the pakistani waters that escaped unnoticed.

I simply cannot believe that an indian sub surfaced to breath fresh air 40 nm from pakistani coastline---.

I believe that it was a part of tag team display---.

I think you are missing the point that the Sub was 'made to surface' and did not surface intentionally or by mistake. I think this quashes the notion that this was a tag team job.

From what I know about how Pak military operates (or any other professional military operates) is that the moment they notice a bandit they assign group(s) to watch it while extra resources are put in place to go hunt for any other potential one lurking around. What you are suggesting is how possibly Punjab police works. Finding a bad guy and putting all the cases on him and wrapping up operation immediately. Those charged with defending country's frontiers cannot and do not have such lax attitudes fortunately.

 

[Khafee]

Hi,

I still believe that there was another one more advanced and deeper into the pakistani waters that escaped unnoticed.

I simply cannot believe that an indian sub surfaced to breath fresh air 40 nm from pakistani coastline---.

I believe that it was a part of tag team display---.

Sir, Like I said earlier, in terms of Sonar, Pakistan's EEZ is quite small. What you are advocating is not impossible, but next to impossible.

Without going into operational details, please note that PN was waiting for it, and once detected near the coast line, 80NM away, noise makers were deployed to inform it, that it had been detected, and any further stay would be unwelcome. As international protocol's dictate, it surfaced, not to recharge it's batteries, but to signal confirmation that it was on it's way back.

The thermals can be a tricky area, but for a sub to hide in it, while another plays tag, well this isn't the WWF. PN has some serious experience under it's belt.

Hi,

The yemen coalition would definitely have helped the cause.

Couple of these frigates would have east- west combo h/w, and would have been free.

No PN does not have it in it's fleet as of now.

PDF Exclusive: There are several platforms under consideration, and this is one of them.

What are the possibilities of it being inducted, and how many boats?

 

[IceCold]

Seeing what this beast is capable of, was one of the objectives:
View attachment 354578

I missed this post. So can we assume that it was the Chinese vessel that located the Indian sub? Having said that i am not dismissing other PN systems which would had played their role as well.

 

[Indus Falcon]

I missed this post. So can we assume that it was the Chinese vessel that located the Indian sub? Having said that i am not dismissing other PN systems which would had played their role as well.

Why are you assuming that? Based on what? It was PN all the way

Hi,

The yemen coalition would definitely have helped the cause.


.

Don't rub salt on our wounds. With our myopic vision, anything out of the box, would be nothing less than a miracle.

 

[MastanKhan]

Why are you assuming that? Based on what? It was PN all the way


Don't rub salt on our wounds. With our myopic vision, anything out of the box, would be nothing less than a miracle.

@Indus Falcon

It breaks my heart---it hurt me like someone has put a dagger thru it---.

That was the moment for pak military to rise and shine---and gain all the losses of the last 50 years in just one stroke---.

The Lord giveth---we reject---and we still complain---.

Sir, Like I said earlier, in terms of Sonar, Pakistan's EEZ is quite small. What you are advocating is not impossible, but next to impossible.

Without going into operational details, please note that PN was waiting for it, and once detected near the coast line, 80NM away, noise makers were deployed to inform it, that it had been detected, and any further stay would be unwelcome. As international protocol's dictate, it surfaced, not to recharge it's batteries, but to signal confirmation that it was on it's way back.

The thermals can be a tricky area, but for a sub to hide in it, while another plays tag, well this isn't the WWF. PN has some serious experience under it's belt.



Couple of these frigates would have east- west combo h/w, and would have been free.


What are the possibilities of it being inducted, and how many boats?

Hi,

Those are my thoughts as an officer in charge---what did I miss---and who escaped---.

Why did the enemy surfaced 40nm away from my coastline---. Why did it do what it did---and to benefit whom---.

Was it testing our gadgets and mapping out the sensors that we had placed---?

 

[The Eagle]

A few more Navel confrontations like this around the Gwadar region, and it will negatively affect the business prospects there. The majority of Merchant ships would shy away if there is an imminent danger of military conflicts while sailing in the region, even the insurance guarantee/premiums will be increased multi-fold for the ships operate in problem zones, the Somalian coast is a classic example.

Such posture of threats in international waters would be a direct conflict with the world against the freedom of navigation.

However, the plan that you shared w.r.t. hostility posture of India is not new against the CPEC and Gawadar but this is not Somalia either.

Also, this Sub detection and surrender by the Indian CO is a message that even in case, it made it to Pakistani territorial waters, the results and headlines would be different that India is also sure about and know the consequences hence there wouldn't be any effect until & unless declaration of war which is always problematic for both sides.

 

[The Eagle]

Agreeing with the fact that the region is neither Somalian coast and this won't be in the interest on both countries, I just simply stated the known facts regarding the fear and risk related to the shipping industry, because I know it very well.

For the insurers to increase the rates this is more enough. I mean there is no fixed premium cost associated with a ship and there is no single coverage as well for a bulky thing like it. Moreover the cargo is insured separately. I hope you understand, such incident which a normal person consider as low is more than enough in our industry to divert considerable amount of business.

With Business POV, you are right and same applies for all, and that is what adversary tries to do so by making the point of interest as such so the economy could be dent through any mean but safeguard is proper and territorial borders is well secured as demonstrated lastly. There is no doubt that India being rival would attempt as such as has been provoking through different channels but it depends on our defence capabilities that we wouldn't let it be like what Indian plans about.

 

[OTTOMAN]

Hi,

The yemen coalition would definitely have helped the cause.



Hi,

I still believe that there was another one more advanced and deeper into the pakistani waters that escaped unnoticed.

I simply cannot believe that an indian sub surfaced to breath fresh air 40 nm from pakistani coastline---.

I believe that it was a part of tag team display---.

I also believe that this may not be the maiden visit, such visits may had been quite regular from quite some time.

However, i do believe that this catch was genuine.

Indian navy would not take risk to make any such plan, where one sub had to present itself as a captive, there must be decent reasons behind their courage of frequenting 40 miles from Pakistan naval basis.

My judgment says, this time sub was detected due to some shotcomings of Indian moles in Pak navy, which again is suerly infested by traitors due to the in-famous traitor duo (brothers) appointed by Zardari and unfortunately one was from Navy.

What is bothering though.... at what level clemency to Indian sub was granted, this time around!

Another dimension to look at is.... weather Indian sub was on its own or was it being assited or assuered of assitance from Iran! After all we have one monkey in custody!
If otherwise, this sub was held briefly for interrogation, could have proven to be last nail in coffin of Iranian partisans in Pakistan.
We all remember presence of zafaron banditss in Yemen, at time when it was suspected that Iran revolution Guards are leading the houthi show. On what sort of civilian evacuation mission you sent a naval ship under charge of an ex-NAVAL CHIEF!
We could have blown Indian act against KSA and had recoiled their isolation strategy and caped their commis in Pakistan.
I strongly believe that Iran and India are heavily indulged with each other in millitant operations, against regionaly foes.
Pakistan cannot uncover the evil allaince/ master minds, unless it work closely with regional allies and closely share intelligence and inspect evidences which allies have collected in their WoT. e.g. Turkey/ Bahrain/ KSA.
Participation in Islamic military allaince against terrorism and leading them is absolute neccessary.

 

[Lotus_stalk]

We should buy or make more subs, these seem to spook PN. We also need special torpedoes which can mess up propellers of their cargo ships. With an fleet of these subs we can impose naval blockade at will. We need something like German U boats.

 

[IceCold]

Why are you assuming that? Based on what? It was PN all the way

Your post actually which hinted towards the usuage of Chinese platform unless i read it wrong.

 

[Lotus_stalk]

Ironically all those U boats couldn't eventually help Germany.

Germany failed at diplomatic level, English were successful in converting their war with Germany into a USA vs German war. German U boats attacked US shipping near US shores.

 

[Penguin]

It totally acceptable in International law to sink any submarine nuclear or otherwise if detected in your territorial waters even if no state of war exists. In fact the world will consider the trespassing country as the aggressor

Uhm, no.

UNCLOS III
Territorial waters
Out to 12 nautical miles (22 kilometres; 14 miles) from the baseline, the coastal state is free to set laws, regulate use, and use any resource. Vessels were given the right of innocent passage through any territorial waters, with strategic straits allowing the passage of military craft as transit passage, in that naval vessels are allowed to maintain postures that would be illegal in territorial waters. "Innocent passage" is defined by the convention as passing through waters in an expeditious and continuous manner, which is not "prejudicial to the peace, good order or the security" of the coastal state. Fishing, polluting, weapons practice, and spying are not "innocent", and submarines and other underwater vehicles are required to navigate on the surface and to show their flag. Nations can also temporarily suspend innocent passage in specific areas of their territorial seas, if doing so is essential for the protection of its security.
Contiguous zone
Beyond the 12-nautical-mile (22 km) limit, there is a further 12 nautical miles (22 km) from the territorial sea baseline limit, the contiguous zone, in which a state can continue to enforce laws in four specific areas: customs, taxation, immigration and pollution, if the infringement started within the state's territory or territorial waters, or if this infringement is about to occur within the state's territory or territorial waters. This makes the contiguous zone a hot pursuit area.
Exclusive economic zones (EEZs)
These extend from the edge of the territorial sea out to 200 nautical miles (370 kilometres; 230 miles) from the baseline. Within this area, the coastal nation has sole exploitation rights over all natural resources. In casual use, the term may include the territorial sea and even the continental shelf. The EEZs were introduced to halt the increasingly heated clashes over fishing rights, although oil was also becoming important. The success of an offshore oil platform in the Gulf of Mexico in 1947 was soon repeated elsewhere in the world, and by 1970 it was technically feasible to operate in waters 4,000 metres deep. Foreign nations have the freedom of navigation and overflight, subject to the regulation of the coastal states. Foreign states may also lay submarine pipes and cables.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Uhm, no.

UNCLOS III
Territorial waters
Out to 12 nautical miles (22 kilometres; 14 miles) from the baseline, the coastal state is free to set laws, regulate use, and use any resource. Vessels were given the right of innocent passage through any territorial waters, with strategic straits allowing the passage of military craft as transit passage, in that naval vessels are allowed to maintain postures that would be illegal in territorial waters. "Innocent passage" is defined by the convention as passing through waters in an expeditious and continuous manner, which is not "prejudicial to the peace, good order or the security" of the coastal state. Fishing, polluting, weapons practice, and spying are not "innocent", and submarines and other underwater vehicles are required to navigate on the surface and to show their flag. Nations can also temporarily suspend innocent passage in specific areas of their territorial seas, if doing so is essential for the protection of its security.
Contiguous zone
Beyond the 12-nautical-mile (22 km) limit, there is a further 12 nautical miles (22 km) from the territorial sea baseline limit, the contiguous zone, in which a state can continue to enforce laws in four specific areas: customs, taxation, immigration and pollution, if the infringement started within the state's territory or territorial waters, or if this infringement is about to occur within the state's territory or territorial waters. This makes the contiguous zone a hot pursuit area.

Exclusive economic zones (EEZs)
These extend from the edge of the territorial sea out to 200 nautical miles (370 kilometres; 230 miles) from the baseline. Within this area, the coastal nation has sole exploitation rights over all natural resources. In casual use, the term may include the territorial sea and even the continental shelf. The EEZs were introduced to halt the increasingly heated clashes over fishing rights, although oil was also becoming important. The success of an offshore oil platform in the Gulf of Mexico in 1947 was soon repeated elsewhere in the world, and by 1970 it was technically feasible to operate in waters 4,000 metres deep. Foreign nations have the freedom of navigation and overflight, subject to the regulation of the coastal states. Foreign states may also lay submarine pipes and cables.

Thank you for stopping 56 pages of posturing and haka-dancing.

 

[untitled]

Vessels were given the right of innocent passage through any territorial waters, with strategic straits allowing the passage of military craft as transit passage

You really think Pakistan will give the right to innocent passage/transit passage to a spying Indian submarine near/within its territorial waters or vice versa? Would not the Indians have tried to board/attack a Pakistani vessel even if it had ended up near Indian waters by a navigational error it it favoured them?

I sure you are aware of the Augusta incident. American submarines had a habit of "harassing" Russian nuclear submarines even in International waters during the cold war.

When it comes to trespassing even an invasion force is allowed to go scot free provided you have good relations with your neighbour.