Pakistan Navy Chief Desires a Nuclear Submarine to restore Balance of Power in the region

[Joe Shearer]

India follows strategy of sea control.

Pakistan navy follows sea denial strategy. Weaker sides go for sea denial. Submarines are the ideal tool for someone going for sea denial strategy. During post Balakot escalation, Indian Navy had a hard time finding our MESMA AIP subs in the Indian Ocean. Surface combatants are easier to find and neutralize than submarines.

Totally agree, but nuclear submarines don't become an essential part of sea denial. Coastal long-range missile batteries do, AIP submarines emphatically (and affordably) do.

Your forget that Dr. Munir Khan was head of the reactor division in the IAEA and had trained a lot of skilled scientists and engineers for this task. Just needs political decisions and balls of steel.

Good.

Now the country can focus on the political decisions.

@mods IELTS and IQ tests need to be made mandatory for Indians who want posting rights.

True, so true.

I have been suggesting this for all members who have joined after 2015.

India is closing in on multiple nuclear submarines as we speak.

You could consider not speaking as an irrefutable counter.

Heheheh.... Where do you think the ballistic missiles came in record time from?

Oh, THAT'S how? Not like the original R&D done on your planes and your tanks?

What a shocking discovery.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Turkey is further along in this goal,

They are similarly broke. Lots of similarities.

(Remember if Pakistan buys SSNs from China, if they were willing to sell it direct, it shift the relationship from Threshold alliance to full blown alliance in the eyes of the US, so Pakistan has to avoid that).

This concern for the reputation of the country in the eyes of the USA is to be applauded, and that it is too late for that should not matter. It's the thought that counts.

For Pakistan, the navy protecting the SLOC between Djibouti and the Makran coast allows it to promote the utility of its ports.

Just vulgar curiousity - what cargo shipments between Djibouti and Makran stand to be at risk, without protection?

We need both.

Quite clearly, a choice has been made.

India will remain safe.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Thats PPP

Please shut up and stop interrupting the discussion. This is being meticulously captured for wider consideration. Without proof, these posts will not have credibility.

You don't have the money even for military purposes. You can eat all the grass in the world, it still won't save enough money for an indigenous SSN program. It doesn't even make sense, it will be a white elephant meanwhile other areas of military investment will be neglected to support this white elephant. Honestly the people here are being very silly, jingoism isn't a valid replacement for sober political and military analysis. SSNs are incredibly expensive. The French Barracuda-class SSN program cost France around $12 Billion dollars(and this mind you if with all of France's development infrastructure to support the development of SSNs from previous generations already in place). Pakistan with Shahbaz Sharif right now is going door to door with a begging bowl asking if someone can spare a single billion to they can avoid a default, and still failing to get someone to give money, and you guys are taking about SSN development.


proof?



From China and North Korea, but even that is a different story from Nuclear Submarines, Ballistic missiles are not difficult. Nuclear Submarines(ones that can reasonably function) are insanely difficult.

Damn.

There goes a perfectly good thread.

According to IMF's world economic outlook released in April 2023, Pakistan's GDP is around 376$ billion whereas Israel's GDP is 539$ billion.

Link for Pakistan's data: https://www.imf.org/external/datamapper/profile/PAK
View attachment 933892

Link for Israel's data: https://www.imf.org/external/datamapper/profile/ISR
View attachment 933893

Well, clearly there is an economic case.

There are millions of Indians on their knees hoping and praying that you will act on this meticulously prepared data.

According to IMF's world economic outlook released in April 2023, Pakistan's GDP is around 376$ billion whereas Israel's GDP is 539$ billion.

Link for Pakistan's data: https://www.imf.org/external/datamapper/profile/PAK
View attachment 933892

Link for Israel's data: https://www.imf.org/external/datamapper/profile/ISR
View attachment 933893

Well, clearly there is an economic case.

There are millions of Indians on their knees hoping and praying that you will act on this meticulously prepared data.

Its useless to bring Nuclear submarine we have 2k km border with india and number of islands to fire nuclear missle into india. OR Our Pak mujhid is thinking to fire on Isreal.

Why not both?

 

[Joe Shearer]

According to IMF's world economic outlook released in April 2023, Pakistan's GDP is around 376$ billion whereas Israel's GDP is 539$ billion.

Link for Pakistan's data: https://www.imf.org/external/datamapper/profile/PAK
View attachment 933892

Link for Israel's data: https://www.imf.org/external/datamapper/profile/ISR
View attachment 933893

Well, clearly there is an economic case.

There are millions of Indians on their knees hoping and praying that you will act on this meticulously prepared data.

Its useless to bring Nuclear submarine we have 2k km border with india and number of islands to fire nuclear missle into india. OR Our Pak mujhid is thinking to fire on Isreal.

Why not both?

Making nukes is a bit different from making miniaturized nuclear reactors to fit in submarines and then getting them to be good enough to actually be deployed on SSNs.

I suspect you may be quite out of your depth here.

Wait for the post that says that if miniaturised nuclear reactors cannot be built immediately, a hull should be designed around a normal-sized reactor.

this whole idea of how Turkey would build the SSNs and somehow sell them to you is fairy tail land.

as distinct from the hard-headed realism of this thread.

 

[Clutch]

Nuclear deterrence, in the form of a second strike capability.


Yes that's what they told Libya

Does the Pakistani civilian population have a second strike capability against the Pakistani Military Establishment?

 

[CallSignMaverick]

Please shut up and stop interrupting the discussion. This is being meticulously captured for wider consideration. Without proof, these posts will not have credibility.

Think twice before blabbering nonsense

 

[Joe Shearer]

Think twice before blabbering nonsense

But I like blabbering nonsense.

Think of the alternatives.

 

[Chute]

Thats PPP

Puff puff pass?

 

[FuturePAF]

They are similarly broke. Lots of similarities.


This concern for the reputation of the country in the eyes of the USA is to be applauded, and that it is too late for that should not matter. It's the thought that counts.


Just vulgar curiousity - what cargo shipments between Djibouti and Makran stand to be at risk, without protection?


Quite clearly, a choice has been made.

India will remain safe.

Think of Pakistan as the West coast of the US and the coastline as the East coast, the Himalayas are the Rockies.

Pakistan would function as the “west coast” for more time sensitive goods to the MENA and Africa regions.

Any and all goods that have to go in between in a time sensitive or security sensitive nature could be carried overland, especially when sea control can not be ensured.

As for reputation, it’s actually about opportunities. Pakistan should be putting its eggs in one basket, it needs all possible markets to grow as fast as it can. Also, wouldn’t it be in both western and Indian interests if Pakistan cared about balancing east and west, and not being beholden to China.

 

[S10]

The only way this can realistically happen is if Pakistan buys the 093B from China when 095 replaces them. With some modernization and refurbishment, it can serve another 20 years.

 

[FuturePAF]

This is being meticulously captured for wider consideration. Without proof, these posts will not have credibility.

What like We make the funny section in R&AW or ORF’s morning briefs or something legit? Can I be quoted in StratNewsGlobal

I do notice some topic that get discussed on PDF end up in some vlogs, but what following does PDF actually have? Any nice legit think tanks?

 

[Chute]

We need to Work on our economy for at least a decade.

The point is you won't. You would have worked on it the last few decades already if the actual intent was there by the powers that be.

Smartest Pakistani friend I know in real life recently looked me in the eye and described to me in stone cold way what the reality of Pakistan is going to be this decade.

An increasing Heinlein dystopia particular to the place he said, the degree of which might vary, the breaking point (if one even exists) is unknown....that was his basic take.

His dad was long part of earlier process (till he got squelched/sidelined and gave up to come to Canada, where I had the good fortune to know his son through college).... to try convince your powers that be in the 80s of what to start doing even back then, they just don't care or listen....back then or now, and its all things they will just double down upon going forward.

You can see what that means now for yourself too... for "at least a decade" or however long it takes you to form a conclusion.

 

[FuturePAF]

The only way this can realistically happen is if Pakistan buys the 093B from China when 095 replaces them. With some modernization and refurbishment, it can serve another 20 years.

It’s doesn’t even need much refurbishment they were built in 2015. Refueling in 2030 or 2035 depending on when the reactor requires it, along with some Pakistan specific comms and weapons.

Obviously some change in signage, but considering the PN is getting the Hangor class subs, it shouldn’t be as large a leap otherwise.

 

[PakAlp]

Pakistan needs atleast 3 Nuclear powered submarines, with intercontinental ballistic missiles. We should first concentrate on the economy for a decade and then go for them.

 

[Finer]

What Pakistan needs is Freedom and democracy ... not nuclear submarines !

That is stupid thought that got Middle East destroyed in the first place.