Pakistan Navy Chief Desires a Nuclear Submarine to restore Balance of Power in the region

[Dr-who]

There is always a way around things.
Pakistan got the bomb despite people saying we were broke in the 1970s.

Where there is will, there is a way. Pakistan will have nuclear powered submarine(s) in fleet prior to the end of this decade iA.

That will was $ gathered from the nation and borrowed from abroad
Both are not showing any signs of giving more

 

[Dr-who]

1. Israel does not have a larger GDP than Pakistan. Pakistan GDP is 1.5 trillion USD while Israel's is 530 billion USD. In what world is 530 billion USD smaller than 1.5 trillion USD?

2. Who said Pakistan can not buy/lease from China? Pakistan has never approached the Chinese before about nuke subs.

Economy of Israel - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Economy of Pakistan - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

GDP PPP
So if we were to produce all the parts in pakistan then per this gdp we are definitely bettrr
But our GDP nominal is less the Israel
So I guess are ability to procure would be less then israel
We can easily buy a bunn kabab & chai patti
But buying a BigMac would make us think twice

 

[hyperman]

1. Israel does not have a larger GDP than Pakistan. Pakistan GDP is 1.5 trillion USD while Israel's is 530 billion USD. In what world is 530 billion USD smaller than 1.5 trillion USD?

List of countries by GDP (nominal) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

2. Who said Pakistan can not buy/lease from China? Pakistan has never approached the Chinese before about nuke subs.

I mentioned China in the initial comment, but I guess we will see.

We need to Work on our economy for at least a decade.

In the meantime, we going with the Turks for a joint program for 4 subs each with VLS (the minimum to maintain at least one out on patrol at all times). Turkey gets out of work sub engineers from the Russkies and Pakistan seeks help from China. (Remember if Pakistan buys SSNs from China, if they were willing to sell it direct, it shift the relationship from Threshold alliance to full blown alliance in the eyes of the US, so Pakistan has to avoid that).

We need a small but modern SSN akin to the barracuda of the French navy. The Long term goal of both Pakistan and Turkey, if they can build up their economies to allow it, is strategic autonomy, like France. Turkey is further along in this goal, and would probably love to have Pakistan be a customer for most of the parts in the initial phase of such a project.

For Pakistan, the navy protecting the SLOC between Djibouti and the Makran coast allows it to promote the utility of its ports. So an SSN is an investment, but only after Pakistan gets the fundamentals of its economy above water.

If we don’t care blowback of buying Chinese SSNs, then we should just buy 4 Type 093G SSNs. The Huludao shipyard can build over a dozen subs at a time. Building 4 new subs or selling off their current Type 093G will be easily replaced in a few years. The G model has the VLS tubes, which hopefully can be fitted with the 1500 Km YJ-21 hypersonic missiles; providing survivable second strike capability against 12 targets.

It’s pump jet is one feature that makes it a modern sub that can serve for decades to come.

If the PN actually went full out and acquired 3 Type 093B attack boats and 3 Type 093B SSGN, it could keep one of each out at a time, and bog down the IN in ASW operations throughout the Indian Ocean, while the Hangor and Agosta Class boats maintain the pressure closer to home in the Arabian Sea.

Emerging from the Shadows

Although the new Liaoni

www.usni.org

Btw, if Pakistan buys the Type 093B/G; it could be part of a “rent seeking strategic deal” for Pakistan to protect the SLOC between Makran and Djibouti/GCC for China (and Russia). But that would defacto require the threshold alliance it to a full strategic alliance with China if Pakistan is to fully benefit, because it would really be putting all its eggs in the Chinese basket. Pakistan shouldn’t sell itself short if it decides to go down that route. Pakistan needs economic investment and an export market if it to compensate for all it could lose elsewhere.

French Barracuda SSN is approx. 5300 tons and the Type 093B/G is approx. 7000 tons. The noise level of the Type 093B/G is in the league of the improved akulas, equal to what India operates. Considering China is building Type 095, possibly equal to USN Virginia class boats, the Type 093B is already dated technology for China, and probably ok to be cleared for export for China, akin to the AUKUS deal for Australia.

A Threshold Alliance: The China-Pakistan Military Relationship

Geopolitical shifts in South Asia over the past decade, driven by sharper US-China competition, a precipitous decline in China-India relations, and the 2021 withdrawal of US forces from Afghanistan, have pushed the Chinese and Pakistani militaries closer together. The countries’ armies and...

www.usip.org

Type 093 Shang-class Nuclear Attack Submarine

www.globalsecurity.org

Turkey does not currently have a SSN program, and its still in the design process for creating conventional diesel AIP submarines, no one on the Turkish side that I've spoken to has even mentioned SSNs on any particular timeline, so this whole idea of how Turkey would build the SSNs and somehow sell them to you is fairy tail land. The Chinese as I mentioned in other comments is an option but there is no guarantee that China would sell you an SSN.

 

[Abid123]

List of countries by GDP (nominal) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I mentioned China in the initial comment, but I guess we will see.



Turkey does not currently have a SSN program, and its still in the design process for creating conventional diesel AIP submarines, no one on the Turkish side that I've spoken to has even mentioned SSNs on any particular timeline, so this whole idea of how Turkey would build the SSNs and somehow sell them to you is fairy tail land. The Chinese as I mentioned in other comments is an option but there is no guarantee that China would sell you an SSN.

GDP PPP is more accurate. Stop using nominal.

 

[hyperman]

the money will never benefit the people

so better to use it for military purpose at least it will keep us safe

You don't have the money even for military purposes. You can eat all the grass in the world, it still won't save enough money for an indigenous SSN program. It doesn't even make sense, it will be a white elephant meanwhile other areas of military investment will be neglected to support this white elephant. Honestly the people here are being very silly, jingoism isn't a valid replacement for sober political and military analysis. SSNs are incredibly expensive. The French Barracuda-class SSN program cost France around $12 Billion dollars(and this mind you if with all of France's development infrastructure to support the development of SSNs from previous generations already in place). Pakistan with Shahbaz Sharif right now is going door to door with a begging bowl asking if someone can spare a single billion to they can avoid a default, and still failing to get someone to give money, and you guys are taking about SSN development.

It’s is happening as we speak.

proof?

Heheheh.... Where do you think the ballistic missiles came in record time from?

From China and North Korea, but even that is a different story from Nuclear Submarines, Ballistic missiles are not difficult. Nuclear Submarines(ones that can reasonably function) are insanely difficult.

 

[_NOBODY_]

1. Israel does not have a larger GDP than Pakistan. Pakistan GDP is 1.5 trillion USD while Israel's is 530 billion USD. In what world is 530 billion USD smaller than 1.5 trillion USD?

2. Who said Pakistan can not buy/lease from China? Pakistan has never approached the Chinese before about nuke subs.

Economy of Israel - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Economy of Pakistan - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

According to IMF's world economic outlook released in April 2023, Pakistan's GDP is around 376$ billion whereas Israel's GDP is 539$ billion.

Link for Pakistan's data: https://www.imf.org/external/datamapper/profile/PAK

Link for Israel's data: https://www.imf.org/external/datamapper/profile/ISR

 

[hyperman]

GDP PPP is more accurate. Stop using nominal.

no its not more "accurate", it gives a real perspective on cost, particularly when materials needed for an SSN program will need to be imported, as the infrastructure for it isn't available in pakistan. This isn't a simple matter of buying bananas in USD in the US vs buying bananas grown in pakistan. You are citing something something that will need imports, and frankly thats where Nominal GDP is far more accurate.

 

[POPEYE-Sailor]

Its useless to bring Nuclear submarine we have 2k km border with india and number of islands to fire nuclear missle into india. OR Our Pak mujhid is thinking to fire on Isreal.

 

[Rank]

There is always a way around things.
Pakistan got the bomb despite people saying we were broke in the 1970s.

Where there is will, there is a way. Pakistan will have nuclear powered submarine(s) in fleet prior to the end of this decade iA.

and what you gonna do with your nuclear submarine btw?

 

[-=virus=-]

what class he want ?

 

[khansaheeb]

How the fk is that gonna happen? Pakistan is broke.

How the fu(k did Pakistan make Nukes, build planes, nuke plants , build Submarines etc when it was broke?

and what you gonna do with your nuclear submarine btw?

Nuke Nazis when they step out of line?

 

[K_Bin_W]

What Pakistan needs is Freedom and democracy ... not nuclear submarines !

Hope it's not something like our eastern neighbor, 75 years of democracy (if you can call it a democracy) has produced the biggest sh1thole on the planet.

 

[hyperman]

How the fu(k did Pakistan make Nukes, build planes, nuke plants , build Submarines etc when it was broke?

I feel like there is a lot of nuance here that you might be overlooking? lol

for one thing, Making nukes is a bit different from making miniaturized nuclear reactors to fit in submarines and then getting them to be good enough to actually be deployed on SSNs. Its a whole lot different from assembling planes from knockdown kits or nuclear powerplants imported for energy, which the provider is responsible for, for example the UAE has nuclear plants, doesn't mean they know how to design and build a reactor from scratch.

 

[khansaheeb]

I feel like there is a lot of nuance here that you might be overlooking? lol

for one thing, Making nukes is a bit different from making miniaturized nuclear reactors to fit in submarines and then getting them to be good enough to actually be deployed on SSNs. Its a whole lot different from assembling planes from knockdown kits or nuclear powerplants imported for energy, which the provider is responsible for, for example the UAE has nuclear plants, doesn't mean they know how to design and build a reactor from scratch.

Your forget that Dr. Munir Khan was head of the reactor division in the IAEA and had trained a lot of skilled scientists and engineers for this task. Just needs political decisions and balls of steel.

 

[Joe Shearer]

How the fk is that gonna happen? Pakistan is broke.

What a terribly unintelligent observation - in the context of Pakistan, at least. Haven't you heard this one, or was it before your time?

"We(Pakistan) will eat grass, even go hungry, but we will get one of our own

There is always a way around things.
Pakistan got the bomb despite people saying we were broke in the 1970s.

Don't worry, we all remember Zulfie Baby;